Reservations on trains

Zaph0d

(new web based reservation service)
http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=5892&lang=ENG&loc=1803

How do reservations work on Irish trains? The last time I got a busy intercity train, I paid for a reservation and assumed my seat number was like a seat number for a flight. But when I got on the train everyone was sitting in everyone elses seats, and it seemed this was normal. Is it?

Crossley

Up to now there has never been a way to reserve standard class seats unless you were travelling as a group and were taking an entire carriage or the guts of. There has always been a facility to reserve seats in First / Citygold but until recently this wasn't an online service either. At present there is a trial online reservation service for First and Citygold seats. What is being announced now is the extension of this to cover Standard as well. In the past when seats were reserved a 'Seat Reserved' sticker was placed on the headrest but if seat reservation becomes the borm I can't see anyone walking through an entire train stickering hundreds of seats.

MG

Crossley wrote:

if seat reservation becomes the borm I can't see anyone walking through an entire train stickering hundreds of seats.

That's what they do in Germany except for the most modern trains which have electronic signs above the seats.

A Dub in Glasgo

The new Voyager and Pendelino trains in the UK have electronic signs for seat reservations. All other reservable trains are done manually before the train departs.

Metrobest

Is this a joke? Seat reservations on Irish trains? I can't believe it. Ireland is a very small country. I've never had to stand on an inter-city train. Seats are always available. Often you'll see 3 out of 4 seats occupied, the spare seat featuring a pile of newspapers or something. Well just ask the person to move their stuff and in you sit. Ireland is similar in size to the Netherlands. The Dutch trains don't accept reservations. And rightly so. Seat reservations are only needed on international trains and long-distance lines in which tickets are upwards of 100 euro single and an airline-quality service is required.

Somebody mentioned Germany. The only German trains that require reservations are the ICEs and ICs. These are express trains stopping only in the major cities and travelling more than 1000 kms. The idea of somebody 'reserving' a seat on the ''Inter City'' from Heuston to Clara, or Connolly to Lexlip Confey is a joke.

Seat reservations cost the rail company money in increased wage and admin costs- and that means you're paying for it in your ticket. Staff will have to place the reservations on the train, staff will have to answer the seat-reservation hotline; customers will have to spend minutes scouring the train looking for their seats, and extra staff willl need to be on-hand to help them. Irish Rail is not Aer Lingus. Pre-allocated seating is not neccessary.

I've travelled on the Thalys and the ICE to Germany several times. To be honest it's easier to travel without reservation. Reserved seating slows up the whole boarding process and is thus be a poison to good punctuality. Plus you can often end up beside somebody smelly and you're forced to sit there for hours because the ticket says so :eek:

De Rebel

Used the fabulous new reservation system to book CityGold a couple of times. Works brilliantly. Book the tickets, reserve the specific seats , pay for it with credit card, the works. Until the last bit, where you get a "reservation number".

And then you have to take the reservation number to smelly dirty Kent station and collect your ticket. SO you either make a special journey at a quiet time, or still join the bloody queue of 30 people at 6:50am.

Did they not think this through? Is on-line ticketing beyond their comprehension? Whats the purpose of the system?

And while I'm at it, I travelled on the 7.00pm train last Saturday week from Dublin to Cork. No City Gold so I reserved and paid for a First Class seat. For operational reasons the train was delayed and when we left at 7.30 the train was quite full. The first class carrige immediatly filled, and it was pretty obvious that very few of the passengers had first class tickets. We were treated to vomiting kids, and a baby having it diaper changed on a table in the carriage. It was actually quite hellish. There were two ticket collectors on the train, who walked up and down a lot. There was NO ticket inspection on board at any time. Extenuating circumstances perhaps, but left me feeling a bit ripped off all the same.

Irish Rail seem to make great efforts to improve things and have some great people working for them. But boy oh boy do they let themselves down badly sometimes.

therecklessone

Metrobest wrote:

Is this a joke? Seat reservations on Irish trains? I can't believe it. Ireland is a very small country. I've never had to stand on an inter-city train. Seats are always available.

Then you've been fortunate. And lose the attitude.

Victor

Metrobest wrote:

Ireland is similar in size to the Netherlands.

I'm not sure what the maximum journey distance is, but Ireland (especially if you add northern Ireland) is twice as larger than the Netherlands.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ei.html

Ireland
Area:
total: 70,280 sq km
land: 68,890 sq km
water: 1,390 sq km

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/nl.html

Netherlands
Area:
total: 41,526 sq km
land: 33,883 sq km
water: 7,643 sq km

John R

De Rebel wrote:

And while I'm at it, I travelled on the 7.00pm train last Saturday week from Dublin to Cork. No City Gold so I reserved and paid for a First Class seat. For operational reasons the train was delayed and when we left at 7.30 the train was quite full. The first class carrige immediatly filled, and it was pretty obvious that very few of the passengers had first class tickets. We were treated to vomiting kids, and a baby having it diaper changed on a table in the carriage. It was actually quite hellish. There were two ticket collectors on the train, who walked up and down a lot. There was NO ticket inspection on board at any time. Extenuating circumstances perhaps, but left me feeling a bit ripped off all the same.

Irish Rail seem to make great efforts to improve things and have some great people working for them. But boy oh boy do they let themselves down badly sometimes.

Odd, that train is marked in the timetable as standard class only.

Did you not do or say anything about the nappy changing? I know I would not have tolerated that in a public area of a train.

John R

Metrobest wrote:

Is this a joke? Seat reservations on Irish trains? I can't believe it. Ireland is a very small country. I've never had to stand on an inter-city train. Seats are always available. Often you'll see 3 out of 4 seats occupied, the spare seat featuring a pile of newspapers or something. Well just ask the person to move their stuff and in you sit..

Considering how much time you spend opining on the railways your ignorance of the constant overcrowding on many intercity services is astounding.

Metrobest wrote:

Ireland is similar in size to the Netherlands. The Dutch trains don't accept reservations. And rightly so. Seat reservations are only needed on international trains and long-distance lines in which tickets are upwards of 100 euro single and an airline-quality service is required.

In no way is Ireland similar to the Netherlands, particularly in the area of transport.

MG

The reference to Germany was in answer to the point about whether they expected someone to walk up and down the train changing the stickers. The answer to that was probably yes as they do in other countries such as Germany.

Whether a reservation system is a good idea is a different question. If it were compulsory for all seats, then I would agree with you, it causes more confusion than anything else. However, if it were optional and a set number of seats were set aside, say 10%, for reservations, then it could be a useful customer service extra and a source of revenue (BTW reservations are not required on ICE or IC s – they are optional). The operating cost of a reservations system would actually be quite low as it would use existing resources, especially if IE got their act together on the on line ticketing front. Charging a flat rate for reservations would ensure that short ride passengers would be less likely to take up this option anyway. However in Germany there is excellent information on where your carriage will be on the platform, thus minimising the disruption trying to find your seat. IE would have a lot of work to do to match it.

Zaph0d

De Rebel wrote:

pay for it with credit card, the works. Until the last bit, where you get a "reservation number"...

And then you have to take the reservation number to smelly dirty Kent station and collect your ticket. SO you either make a special journey at a quiet time, or still join the bloody queue of 30 people at 6:50am.

Terrible. I hope this gets fixed.

De Rebel wrote:

And while I'm at it, I travelled ... First Class seat. ... full of passengers with invalid tickets. ...vomiting kids...baby having it diaper changed on a table...

I've changed nappies on planes and trains but always in the toilets. Where else?

On a plane, even a no frills airline, it's relaxing to know that other passengers can't behave like animals or they will be arrested. I'd like to see the inspectors behaving more like bouncers with garda backup so that any abusive passengers could be unloaded at the nearest station in the middle of nowhere. Sometimes trains are virtually taken over by a gang of drunks returning from a match or a stag weekend. It's unfair to the IE staff and the ordinary passengers who are put off using the train again.

Imagine getting on a flight, sitting in business class iwth an economy ticket and changing a baby on the tray table.

Metrobest

Maximum journey time in NL for one train is about three hours from Haarlem to Maastricht. No reservations.

Experience in the low-cost airline sector has shown that seat reservations are costly and time-consuming, eating into punctuality. For trains like the Thalys one staff member is deployed to each carriage door to help customers find their seats. It's a waste of time and money.

The vast majority of intercity trains in Ireland have seats available. Ask any ticket inspector. People tend to walk through three carriages that don't have seats and then decide the train is 'full'; the end carriage, meanwhile, is lying half-empty. If you walk the entire length of the train you'll find a spare seat.

If the train is full, people still have to stand. Seat reservations won't change that. That's a capacity isssue IE should address.

dowlingm

I have only once got a train in Canada, from Ottawa-Toronto to catch an onward flight because I couldn't get a decent connecting flight. VIA Rail has a disadvantage as the freight cos own the lines and thus pax services have to yield priority!

I booked first class as it was still cheaper than flying and I wouldn't have to look for food in Toronto at Pearson Airport. At Ottawa rail station, first class pax have a lounge where you collect online booked tickets. Standard reservations have to queue up at the normal ticket desks. You put your bags on a large cart which is taken out to the train and read the papers and have coffee until your preferential boarding.

This is the kind of product a future Cork-Dublin-Belfast service should have.

embraer170

Switzerland's efficient and pleasant railway system operates perfectly without any seat reservations. Eurocity/CIS ex-Switzerland which operate with seat reservations inevitably end up being zoos, especially at busy stations.

Having to reserve a seat beforehand takes away from the point of rail travel. How long before a UK-style yield management system and when that comes along, might as well just take Aer Arann.

dowlingm

zaphod

have you changed a baby in the toilet of an Irish train?

for its sake I hope not. :eek:

Metrobest

dowlingm wrote:

I have only once got a train in Canada, from Ottawa-Toronto to catch an onward flight You put your bags on a large cart which is taken out to the train and read the papers and have coffee until your preferential boarding. This is the kind of product a future Cork-Dublin-Belfast service should have.

Canada is a bad example in the context of Ireland being a tiny, sparsely-populated island. The huge advantage of rail travel over air is flexibility in journey times and freedom to the passenger. Fixing reservations on seats is a negative step that limits passengers' choice and makes rail travel dearer. Why do you want that? Maybe as a first-class passenger cost is no object but the vast majority of people want to get from A to B as quickly, cheaply and comfortably as possible. That means no reservations.

I can't see Cork-Belfast being a popular service, although I think it might work as a premium-service night train from Derry to Cork and vice versa; just because night trains evoke the glamour of the golden era of rail travel. Unforunately with IE at the helm Ireland actually never experienced a golden era, but how and ever...

John R

Metrobest wrote:

I can't see Cork-Belfast being a popular service, although I think it might work as a premium-service night train from Derry to Cork and vice versa; just because night trains evoke the glamour of the golden era of rail travel. Unforunately with IE at the helm Ireland actually never experienced a golden era, but how and ever...

LMFAO

parsi

Metrobest wrote:

I've travelled on the Thalys and the ICE to Germany several times. To be honest it's easier to travel without reservation. Reserved seating slows up the whole boarding process and is thus be a poison to good punctuality. Plus you can often end up beside somebody smelly and you're forced to sit there for hours because the ticket says so :eek:

You could do what everybody does on the Eurostar - once you leave the terminus go for a walk and find an empty seat that suies you better = last week we hd great musical chairs in our carriage when people moved around trying to avoid a baby (who was very quiet)..

Metrobest

John R wrote:

LMFAO

Care to be any more cryptic?

Metrobest

parsi wrote:

You could do what everybody does on the Eurostar - once you leave the terminus go for a walk and find an empty seat that suies you better = last week we hd great musical chairs in our carriage when people moved around trying to avoid a baby (who was very quiet)..

That's my point. Reservations cause hassle passengers don't need. In any event the Eurostar is a very different train from an Irish Rail Intercity.

A Dub in Glasgo

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=LMFAO

embraer170

You could do what everybody does on the Eurostar - once you leave the terminus go for a walk and find an empty seat that suies you better = last week we hd great musical chairs in our carriage when people moved around trying to avoid a baby (who was very quiet)..

Except that an Irish Intercity train is not a non-stop terminus to terminus service.

Zaph0d

dowlingm wrote:

zaphod
have you changed a baby in the toilet of an Irish train?
for its sake I hope not. :eek:

No, only on a Swedish train .

metrobest wrote:

The huge advantage of rail travel over air is flexibility in journey times and freedom to the passenger. Fixing reservations on seats is a negative step that limits passengers' choice and makes rail travel dearer. Why do you want that? Maybe as a first-class passenger cost is no object but the vast majority of people want to get from A to B as quickly, cheaply and comfortably as possible. That means no reservations.

I hadn't thought about the idea that not having reservations at all might be the best approach. Sometimes you can best fix a process by eliminating it.

A Dub in Glasgo

Seat reservtions are a fantastic way for families and groups to ensure they sit together during a journey. It does not matter if the journey takes 2 hours, 3 hours or longer. If you get on a busy train at a stop that is not the start of the journey, it is extremely difficult to get seats together. This is not the same as saying that everybody has to reserve to travel. The best way is to have designated carraiges that are for reservations and designated carraiges that are not reserved.

drrnwbb

the use of train seat reservations is pretty widespread here in finland. it works well for the long distance/overnight trains here that stop at a few different stations along the route.

in an irish context where the max journey is 3hrs ish there isnt much of an immediate need for it. plus the entire technological infrastucture of irish rail just wouldnt be able to handle the proper intergration/setup it required.

dw

A Dub in Glasgo

drrnwbb wrote:

the use of train seat reservations is pretty widespread here in finland. it works well for the long distance/overnight trains here that stop at a few different stations along the route.

in an irish context where the max journey is 3hrs ish there isnt much of an immediate need for it. plus the entire technological infrastucture of irish rail just wouldnt be able to handle the proper intergration/setup it required.

dw

Why does travelling 2-3 hours on a train not justify seat reservation? How difficult is it to have one coach a reservation coach and to reserve seats in that coach?

drrnwbb

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Why does travelling 2-3 hours on a train not justify seat reservation? How difficult is it to have one coach a reservation coach and to reserve seats in that coach?

i never seaid it didnt justify seat reservation. anyway, i'll try not to post again at midnight as i only end up talking rubbish. i take your point dubinglasgow.

dw

A Dub in Glasgo

Not talking rubbish at all, I just feel that seat reservations are a godsend for people & families who are travelling together on busy trains.

Victor

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Not talking rubbish at all, I just feel that seat reservations are a godsend for people & families who are travelling together on busy trains.

You can reserve for first class and for large groups (10+?)