Cheap entry points to the sport.

Sparks

One interesting problem the sport of target shooting has that I've been thinking about for a while is that of the entry points and development paths (to use the Sports Council's terminology) in the sport.
For example, you're mildly interested in taking up target shooting having seen an article about it in a paper somewhere. There are a few obvious questions, starting with "where's the nearest club". But suppose for a moment that your club doesn't have the facility to loan people gear when they're starting - then what?

So, suggestions please, for cheap, entry-level target shooting solutions. I have one or two myself, but I've not done any experiments on these!

For 10m Air Rifle



The IZH-60, a spring-powered air rifle like the FWB300 series, with a very, very basic sights setup (there are actually aperature sights there, it's a flat plate with a hole that fits into the open rearsights), and a price tag of about sixty pounds sterling.

For 10m Air Pistol



The IZH-46M air pistol. Good enough to get a heck of a long way in 10m air pistol, and a pricetag of around $270 or so in the states.

Thing is, there doesn't seem to be an equivalent level for .22 stuff - .22 pistols suitable for entry-level ISSF shooting don't seem to show up for less than $700 or so (the IZH-35 was selling for nearly $1000 in the sites I looked at, for example), and rifles are all about the $1000 mark. So, any ideas?

Irishglockfan

Can see the trouble.As in the rest of the world you would have a better selection to try out before you would buy a dedicated type pistol/ rifle to that sport type.if you see what i mean.
Ironically Webley used to make back from the turn of the centuary until the 1960s a very nice little tip up single shot 22lr pistol.now an antique and long out of production,but was a very accurate gun and cheap for it's time as well.
If it was a multishot disipline i could suggest two pistols [1] the ruger 22 pistol with a bull barrell and target sites,or the china sports copy of the Hi standard victor.both are good guns for beginning with ,but of course are not going to be as accurate as the dedicated pistols.could try the Russian Baikail line i remember they did some good pistols as well.

Sparks

Hmmm. But is the Ruger Mk2 (the Mk3 is supposed to be pants) of any use for ISSF pistol shooting? Is it even within the rules, I wonder...

And yup, the Baikail is the IZH-35.

civdef

Sparks wrote:

Hmmm. But is the Ruger Mk2 (the Mk3 is supposed to be pants) of any use for ISSF pistol shooting? Is it even within the rules, I wonder...

AAAGGGHHHH!! The world doesn't revolve around feckin ISSF! For beginners especially, getting them interested in putting holes in paper is a good start.

For clayshooting, the Lanber 2085 sporter is a good choice. Similar to my above comment, it's not a dedicated trap gun, but a newcomer to the sport would find it a lot cheaper then one of those, good enough for them to build up skills in all disciplines, and heavy enough they don't get bashed up by it.

Sparks

Hey, the whole world doesn't revolve around ISSF, but I'm NTSA - I'm not meant to be looking after the non-ISSF stuff! (I mean, can you imagine what would happen if the NTSA started training silhouette shooters?) :eek: :eek: :eek:

Besides, I just want to know if the ruger would be a good cheap club gun for beginners who're shooting at paper ISSF targets - it'd be handy if it could be used for competition, yes, but that's secondary. I'm just wondering does it have a twenty-pound pull on the trigger, do the sights actually adjust, that kind of thing...

civdef

I reckon it's better if club guns are full spec, so they can be used in competitions without seriously disadvantaging newbies.
Good used target guns are noramlly not too difficult to source, given the frequency with which serious competitors upgrade.

Sparks

It's always best to start off with the best gear if you can Civ, but for a new club starting up, or a new shooter buying their first piece of kit, that may not be possible

Sparks

Found an interesting candidate again today. I knew that USAS were pushing their CM2 Youth rifle through EAAcorp, and at $440 for a junior .22lr rifle, the price is certainly right.

And the shooters on targettalk.org in the US seem to think it's decent enough.

But for the adults, there's the rifle it was based on, the SM-2 (also called the CM2) and the SM-2-1 (which has an adjustable cheekpiece). From what I've seen on the net, it goes for around the $400 mark, and you have to test-fire it first as some were real monday morning jobs, but for a basic entry-level rifle, it seems to be a good candidate:

Irishglockfan

EAA corp,they sell Russkie kit.Mostly made in the IZAMESH factory.They were the first factory where Klashnikov produced the AK47.Which is/was the old Sov premier weapons factory.So it will function every time you pull the trigger.And be fixable with a pipe vise,two screwdrivers and a hammer.Basically expect Russian workmanship.Machining marks removed where it is required,etc.
It's the starter low range group.There doesnt seem to be a middle ground.Very cheap[relatively speaking] and hideously expensive.

civdef

How about the massive amounts of BSA Martinis available at silly prices in the UK? Examples in good condition run under £100. Similarly older Anschutz models sell for a couple of hundred, both better value I'd reckon.

Sparks

Yup civ, they'd knock out the ten ring quite well also - the trick is finding them. We all know that they're there, but is there a single place you can go to to locate them, or are they going second-hand in ones and twos up and down the length and breadth of the UK?

By which I mean, you go to TargetShootingIreland.org and start reading the introduction to target shooting (it's not there yet, I'm still in the middle of writing it up!) and when you're reading about buying your own gear, there's a link to RandomUKWebsite.co.uk where they list all the second-hand rifles for sale, and they've all been looked at by a gunsmith and rated so you're not buying a pig in a poke. Anything like that?

civdef

Buying a copy of Target Sports in the newsagent (- is it on sale here btw? )and ringing a few numbers from the adverts is the best plan generally.

The university club I was a member of had a couple of decent condition BSA Martinis that weren't being used any more - we couldn't give them away, I think they ended up being handed in to the police.

Sparks

Hmmm. See, the problem with the adverts thing is that it's easy enough for someone who knows what they're doing. It's like getting a car in the Buy&Sell. But I'm thinking more along the lines of a used car dealership than buying from someone direct - that way, you have a gun dealer look over the rifle first and make sure it's not worthless, maybe put some rounds down it to check it's not shot out, that kind of thing.

civdef

I should have been more clear, that magazine has adverts from loads of specialist firearms dealers in the UK who stock secondhand target rifles.

Relative to being shot out - a top level competitor might notice a difference after many thousand rounds or so - the rest of us, especially newbies, won't. Many people say 22's only start to shoot right after 10k rounds. Being wrecked by incorrect cleaning is another matter of course.

Sparks

Hasn't Target Sports gone through a change in ownership after going out of business recently civ?

Irishglockfan

try. www.guntrader.co.uk
They are UK firearms dealers who are selling online.so it should be pretty Ok stuf.

www.frankonia.de
One of Germanys largest and oldest hunter and shooter equipers.Order the paper catolouge or keep an eye on their online used equipment.[read the catolouge,and then look at the pics and you then can learn some German Firearms terminology ] and they do alot of second hand stuff that is never online or in the catolouge
Be asured of one thing.All second hand guns and related kit will be checked to a intense standard.it takes seven plus years to be a gun maker over there and they will NOT let out anything that is crud,out of proof,or rubbish and will tell you what is wrong with it and how to fix it or repairable or not.Also they do speak English where firearms are concerned[2nd lingo over there for the 30's plus].
If anyone has any bother PM me and I'll help on translating or whatever.

Sparks

Did try guntrader Glock (I post there every so often), but running a search for something like the martini action BSAs turned up nothing yesterday.

Frankonia sounds of interest, the only problem would be the language barrier - kind as your offer of translation is, it's not really practicable as the main source of information for the entire shooting community in Ireland!!!

Irishglockfan

Sparks,they speak English in Frankonia,and in germany in general as a second lingo,trust me.And it is a gun & hunting store not an information booth.

Irishglockfan

Found a site for those who are looking for cheapish air target pistols www.roehm-rg.de
Prices between 500/800euros for the twinmaster line.it can use either co2 cartridges or compressed air,can be used for action shootin [eight shots mag] or single shot.Micrometer sites,adj trigger.

look under luftdruck waffen[airweapons] in the site
Gas und Schreckschuss are blankfirers that can also fire CS cartridges[legal for self defence in europe]
Hunde bedarf dog training aids

Note anything in europe with the letter F in a five sided symbol[pentagon?] can be bought by anyone over 18 with no liscence. Apart from Ireland of course

Sparks

civdef wrote:

How about the massive amounts of BSA Martinis available at silly prices in the UK? Examples in good condition run under £100. Similarly older Anschutz models sell for a couple of hundred, both better value I'd reckon.

Just found this link today. A nice overview page of the various kinds of BSA Martinis from the humble number 6 through to the ones that you'd use for target shooting competitions (the number 12/15, the number 15 and the BSA international).

Sparks

Irishglockfan wrote:

Found a site for those who are looking for cheapish air target pistols www.roehm-rg.de
Prices between 500/800euros for the twinmaster line.it can use either co2 cartridges or compressed air,can be used for action shootin [eight shots mag] or single shot.Micrometer sites,adj trigger.

Actually, there was one of these in the WTSC Airgun Open last weekend, a Rohm Twinmaster.



Odd little thing, it's actually a double-action air pistol in effect. There's a hammer on the thing and you can cock that with your thumb and it becomes a standard single-action air pistol (and a rather usable one at that), but it also takes these 8-pellet cylindrical magazines and pulling the trigger without cocking the hammer will rotate the cylinder into place and then release the air behind the pellet. Which is useless for standard ISSF air pistol matches as the trigger weight is so high that you're shaking all over the target, but maybe for the ISSF 5-shot event it might be of use - so you in effect get an air pistol that acts as a cheap entry point to both the standard 10m event and the 10m 5-shot event as well.