the perils of online poker: a beginner's tale

richie17

I played my first real money poker this weekend, on partypoker.com. I'm pretty new to poker, came to a SNG at the Fitz and enjoyed that, but figured I've a lot to learn still, so thought I'd try this out.

So I started playing a few hold 'em .50c/$1 games. I had $50 (the minimum deposit allowed) on the bankroll, of which I took $25 to my first table. Well things went pretty well, I was aggressively raising my good hands and pretty soon my $25 had become $58. Sure I was getting some good hands, but I think I played everything pretty well. I looked at the cashier page and saw that I had $83 in total, which I could withdraw any time. Nice, I thought.

Then things started to go wrong. Having played properly, a fairly tight but aggressive game, I started to get lax. Thinking that I'd already made some money, I played hands like K3o every time I could, and I tried to bully people out of pots, and before I knew it that $58 was down to $30. I decided to switch tables and try my luck elsewhere.

Again, playing pretty well I broke even for a while, then fluked a straight and ended up exactly $50, breaking even after a solid 3 hours' play. I felt good; after all, it was my first game and it had ended ok.

I woke up on Sunday and decided to have a quick game before football. The players were very slow and deliberate today, so I decided to open up another window and play two tables at once. BIG MISTAKE. I found it very hard to keep track of players, hands and my brain, and before I knew it I was tilting badly. I didn't get any cards, and the few I did get I played very aggressively and lost. In under an hour my $50 was at $9.50!!

So I'm not sure what to make of all this. Beginner's observations:

Lesson one, play better hands. It's too tempting after waiting around for 15 mins to play the first picture card that comes your way. Need to be disciplined.

Lesson two, get out of hands you know you're not goign to win... sounds obvious, but a number of times I carried on betting, even though I was 90% sure that the other player had me.

Lesson three, find easy tables. There does seem to be a difference in the quality of play between tables. If you find one where players aren't so good, stay there! That was my mistake on the first night.

Lesson four. When you're ahead, keep doing the things you did to get ahead! Again, sounds obvious, but I was absolutely awful on this score, and deserved to lose all the money I did!

Finally, don't panic. There's no doubt I got much better cards on saturday than sunday. That's the way it goes. I guess if I just keep playing solidly, I'll be ok in the end. I shouldn't overreact to Sunday's debacle, and just continue to do my thing.

Very enjoyable anyway, I really recommend it to folks. Hope to see you at the Fitz before long.
Rich

Waylander

Hi Richie, that is a very familiar picture you paint there. It is virtually identical to my first weekends play. As long as you know where you went wrong you are not doing too badly. At least you can now counteract those mistakes now.

Krusty_Clown

I suffer from the same kind of issues.. Firstly: Boredom. It can be teribly boring to sit and wait for a nice starting hand (I know a lot of people alleviate this boredom by playing multiple tables simultaneously, but on the few times I've played a cash game and multi-table tourney simultaneously, I haven't faired well)..

Secondly, trying to avoid a reputation as a very tight player. I find that if I wait too long without playing any hands the other players must be flagging me as a tight player. As soon as I hit something, and put in a marginal bet everyone folds. Marginal gain.

Finally, you know that moment, when you've seen the river, you've a strong hand, the other remaining player puts in a very small raise, you re-raise with a more substantial bet, and suddenly you have a monster re-raise in your face. I lose alot of those, and they tend to be quite costly..

At least I know what my major problems are.. But something inside me is forcing me to make these poor judgement calls anyway.. I guess that's one of the advantages of face to face games. When you have to take those notes out of your wallet and hand them to someone else, you have a better appreciation of that fact that you're playing for real money, then if you entered a couple of numeric digits into an input box, and click on submit.

Imposter

I found that playing 5$ SnG's and tournaments was the best way to learn. The stakes were lower and you learn quite quickly.

Knowing when to fold is the key, expecially in Fixed Limit Ring games. You should be looking for a reason to fold. In a lot of cases this is because a lot of players play crap hands that occasionally hit. Folding most of these saves you a lot of money.

The downside of this is that better players can spot this and will exploit it. That is where knowing the players helps. But basically if in doubt, fold.

Marq

LESSON FIVE: GET POKERTRACKER, RIGHT NOW.

I find online play extremely boring, but I was out of work sick there for a few days last week and thought I'd give the ring games a go. Up til now I've only been playing the 10+1 STT's on Pokerroom and making a tidy enough profit on them, but I hadn't played the cash games. I got pokertracker, and after the first day had identified many mistakes in my game, and increased by winnings by about 25%.

I find that the most important thing for making money online is patience. It's not glamourous, and it's not fun, but Jes, it's like taking candy from a baby.

Hyzepher

I used to counter act the boredom by playing my xbox at the same time - used to play MS Links 2004 (as I could leave it at any time and not impact on the game)

Hyzepher

richie17

"At least I know what my major problems are.. But something inside me is forcing me to make these poor judgement calls anyway"

Tell me about it... I kept on doing stupid things, whilst thinking "don't do that, it's the wrong thing to do and you're an idiot". Then I'd lose the pot, and think "see, shouldn't have done that, you're an idiot". Then I'd do something different but equally stupid and think "why did you do that? you're an idiot". After a while a pattern was emerging... ya live and learn.

careca

richie17 wrote:

Tell me about it... I kept on doing stupid things, whilst thinking "don't do that, it's the wrong thing to do and you're an idiot". Then I'd lose the pot, and think "see, shouldn't have done that, you're an idiot". Then I'd do something different but equally stupid and think "why did you do that? you're an idiot". After a while a pattern was emerging... ya live and learn.

I spotted a pattern alright Richie, but I'm not sure its the same one you were thinking of !!!

Hyzepher

When you are starting out you should decide a certain pattern of play - starting hands, agression, betting style etc and try and stick to it. If you find that you are making foolish mistakes then you might find it useful to remind yourself of these rules before every play - maybe sticky them to your monitor or something.

Hyzepher

kipple

Firstly losing $50 and then another $50 is nothing. Limit poker even for winning players will have big swings in variance. If you are not a winning player you will lose it all.

I'll be ok in the end.

I dont think you will unless you learn how to play better.

Lesson one, play better hands.

No play +EV hands. If you dont know what that means you need to learn.

Lesson two, get out of hands you know you're not goign to win

Well if you can predict the future I predict you will be a great poker player. Sometimes if the pot is very big you need to stay in even if there is only a small chance you will win.

Lesson three, find easy tables.

At .50c/$1 all tables are easy, some are very easy. With the rate of player turnover I dont bother to move tables.

Lesson four. When you're ahead, keep doing the things you did to get ahead!

This is wrong! Focus on making the right decisions on every street. How do you know you are not playing bad and getting lucky. Come back to me with you win rate for 50K hands and perhaps that statement will be true.


Here is my advice. In order do:
1. Drop in limits. Play a couple of thousand hands on Poker Stars ultra micro limits.
2. Read Winning low level hold'em by Lee Jones
3. Read the 2+2 micro board
4. Learn to multi tab 3 tables at ultra low limits
5. Move back to Party
6. Read and re-read winning small stakes hold'em by Ed miller.
7. Get poker tracker
8. Keep studying and moving up limits when you have the skill and bankroll

Finally get a rake back deal!!!!!!!!!!! Look for a post by me on this board on how to do this.

T.

Hectorjelly

richie17 wrote:

I played my first real money poker this weekend, on partypoker.com. I'm pretty new to poker, came to a SNG at the Fitz and enjoyed that, but figured I've a lot to learn still, so thought I'd try this out.

So I started playing a few hold 'em .50c/$1 games. I had $50 (the minimum deposit allowed) on the bankroll, of which I took $25 to my first table. Well things went pretty well, I was aggressively raising my good hands and pretty soon my $25 had become $58. Sure I was getting some good hands, but I think I played everything pretty well. I looked at the cashier page and saw that I had $83 in total, which I could withdraw any time. Nice, I thought.

Then things started to go wrong. Having played properly, a fairly tight but aggressive game, I started to get lax. Thinking that I'd already made some money, I played hands like K3o every time I could, and I tried to bully people out of pots, and before I knew it that $58 was down to $30. I decided to switch tables and try my luck elsewhere.

Again, playing pretty well I broke even for a while, then fluked a straight and ended up exactly $50, breaking even after a solid 3 hours' play. I felt good; after all, it was my first game and it had ended ok.

I woke up on Sunday and decided to have a quick game before football. The players were very slow and deliberate today, so I decided to open up another window and play two tables at once. BIG MISTAKE. I found it very hard to keep track of players, hands and my brain, and before I knew it I was tilting badly. I didn't get any cards, and the few I did get I played very aggressively and lost. In under an hour my $50 was at $9.50!!

So I'm not sure what to make of all this. Beginner's observations:

Lesson one, play better hands. It's too tempting after waiting around for 15 mins to play the first picture card that comes your way. Need to be disciplined.

Lesson two, get out of hands you know you're not goign to win... sounds obvious, but a number of times I carried on betting, even though I was 90% sure that the other player had me.

Lesson three, find easy tables. There does seem to be a difference in the quality of play between tables. If you find one where players aren't so good, stay there! That was my mistake on the first night.

Lesson four. When you're ahead, keep doing the things you did to get ahead! Again, sounds obvious, but I was absolutely awful on this score, and deserved to lose all the money I did!

Finally, don't panic. There's no doubt I got much better cards on saturday than sunday. That's the way it goes. I guess if I just keep playing solidly, I'll be ok in the end. I shouldn't overreact to Sunday's debacle, and just continue to do my thing.

Very enjoyable anyway, I really recommend it to folks. Hope to see you at the Fitz before long.
Rich

Congratulations, it takes most people Months to even begin to understand what you have discovered for yourself in a weekend. Good luck!

richie17

Quote:
I'll be ok in the end.


I dont think you will unless you learn how to play better.

Not wishing to come over all confrontational, but I had kind of planned on this! I'm reading an awful lot, and just starting to play too. We can't be experts over night, but with the right attitude I think that most people can establish a reasonable degree of competence. I hope so anyway!


Quote:
Lesson two, get out of hands you know you're not goign to win


Well if you can predict the future I predict you will be a great poker player. Sometimes if the pot is very big you need to stay in even if there is only a small chance you will win.

I think you know what I meant. Sometimes I made some very poor decisions where the probability was really very much against me. I should've got out.




Quote:
Lesson three, find easy tables.


At .50c/$1 all tables are easy, some are very easy. With the rate of player turnover I dont bother to move tables.

Not necessarily in your first game they aren't.


Thanks for the advice, I am very keen to learn. I've been reading a fair amount of Sklansky, so have a reasonable idea of what I should be doing, and what I've done wrong when I lost money. Hey, it's a start.



Here is my advice. In order do:
1. Drop in limits. Play a couple of thousand hands on Poker Stars ultra micro limits.
2. Read Winning low level hold'em by Lee Jones
3. Read the 2+2 micro board
4. Learn to multi tab 3 tables at ultra low limits
5. Move back to Party
6. Read and re-read winning small stakes hold'em by Ed miller.
7. Get poker tracker
8. Keep studying and moving up limits when you have the skill and bankroll

Finally get a rake back deal!!!!!!!!!!! Look for a post by me on this board on how to do this.

T.

cheers, will apply...

kencleary

Woo! Another ringing endorsement for Partypoker.com here. Deposited $50 on Friday and am at over $260 now! I'd heartily recommend the $2-4 tables. The standard is pretty poor but not nearly as unpredictable at the kind of sh*t you find on 1-2 and .5-1 tables.

Kipple's advice on playing low limit is pretty good so I won't repeat it. Be aware though unless you can make the required mental leap quickly it'll rapidly ruin your tournament play if going back and forth between the two types of poker

kipple

Be aware though unless you can make the required mental leap quickly it'll rapidly ruin your tournament play if going back and forth between the two types of poker

This is a very good point and I have found when I play tournaments I am sometimes playing with a limit mindset in the beginning of the tournament.

How you play for example TPTK in limit is different than in a tournament and if you dont remember you are in a tournament and play TPTK on auto pilot as if you are playing limit you could be in trouble.

T.