Luas crash on St Stephens Green

sliabh

I just head two Luas trams collided on St Stephens green. Does anyone have any info on this?

Update from RTE:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0917/luas.html

egan007

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1924199#post1924199

Victor

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2765-1268978,00.html

The Sunday Times - Ireland
September 19, 2004
Human error blamed for Luas accident
Scott Millar

HUMAN error appears to be to blame for the Luas collision on Friday when several thousand euros-worth of damage was caused to trams. Four people required medical attention.

Emma Rafferty, a spokeswoman for Connex, the Luas management company, said yesterday that a preliminary investigation into the collision had been completed. The accident involved two passing trams running at a very low speed near the St Stephen’s Green terminus in Dublin city centre.

“Defects in the system have been ruled out,” said Rafferty. “Operational procedures provide for one tram to move in this area at any one time. In this case two movements occurred.”

Usual operational procedure for the Luas at St Stephen’s Green requires the tram loading passengers at the terminus to remain stationary until trams arriving from the opposite direction have moved into position.

It is believed that this procedure was not adhered to prior to Friday’s accident. A tram that had loaded its passengers began to move and collided with another packed tram moving into the terminus area. Rafferty said: “The drivers have control of the trams. They are like any other vehicle on the road.”

The accident happened at 4.10pm. Passengers and eyewitnesses said those on board the Sandyford-bound tram, which was leaving the terminus, were trapped inside for five to 10 minutes before they could get the doors open.

Seven large glass panels on the Sandyford-bound tram were shattered, with shards of glass showering passengers in the front carriage. The gray and silver panelling on both trams was also badly damaged as were their undercarriages.

The driver of the Sandyford-bound tram was taken to hospital suffering from shock. A three-year-old boy and his two-year-old sister were treated at the scene for slight cuts and bruises while their mother received attention for shock.

Full passenger service resumed from St Stephen’s Green at 9.30pm on Friday. The two damaged trams were towed to the Luas Sandyford depot for repair. There are 14 trams available but only eight are needed to maintain the usual service of one tram every five minutes during peak times and 10 minutes off peak.

Tom Manning, a spokesman for the Railway Procurement Agency, said: “Our operational managers are working in conjunction with the Connex investigation. The main control centre for Luas is at the Red Cow depot, but this incident is due to problems at the Green rather than there.”

The rail safety inspectorate, which is answerable to the Department of Transport, is now conducting an independent investigation.

Friday’s accident will not delay the opening of the second Luas line next week. Travel on the Tallaght to Connolly station line will be free for the first six days. More than 400,000 passengers used the Sandyford line during its free period.

The Tallaght line is 66% longer than the Sandyford service at 15km compared with the Green Line’s 9km.

The Railway Procurement Agency said that journey times would be longer until the service is fully up and running.

PH01

it just goes to show that you shouldn't race LUAS trains

Hagar

Un-accustomed as I am to giving any praise to Luas / Connex I take my hat off to the for the prompt admission that it was a driver error.

I realise that people might think its easy to blame the driver rather than the systems he works within but accidents do happen, drivers are human. Maybe this minor accident will trigger awareness that will prevent similar accidents in the future. Thankfully there were no major injuries.

Victor

PH01 wrote:

it just goes to show that you shouldn't race LUAS trains

Especially when that race is "chicken". :eek:

De Rebel

Passengers and eyewitnesses said those on board the Sandyford-bound tram, which was leaving the terminus, were trapped inside for five to 10 minutes before they could get the doors open.

This has appeared in a number of reports. Does anybody else find it disturbing? Surely the doors should fail open, rather than fail shut? What about a fire situation? 5-10 minutes is a long time to be trapped.

Tom Dunne

De Rebel wrote:

This has appeared in a number of reports. Does anybody else find it disturbing?

You know, I was just thinking the very same thing. I am claustrophobic at the best of times, but the thought of being trapped in a tram after a collision? I would have lost the plot. Shouldn't there by some sort of emergency release? Or some kind of hammer to break the windows open?

Very worrying.

Victor

De Rebel wrote:

Surely the doors should fail open, rather than fail shut?

It needs to have a double safe. In the event of an accident / incident they need to stay shut until someone opens them. Otherwise it wouldn't be good if you had and accident on say a bridge and people fell out.

tom dunne wrote:

Or some kind of hammer to break the windows open?

"In the event of an emergency, use other tram to break windows."

Bee

Victor wrote:

It needs to have a double safe. In the event of an accident / incident they need to stay shut until someone opens them. Otherwise it wouldn't be good if you had and accident on say a bridge and people fell out."In the event of an emergency, use other tram to break windows."

And what is the situation in case of a fire? Torched occupants! I would rather take my chance and exit promptly.

Bee

Bee

Victor wrote:

It needs to have a double safe. In the event of an accident / incident they need to stay shut until someone opens them. Otherwise it wouldn't be good if you had and accident on say a bridge and people fell out."In the event of an emergency, use other tram to break windows."

With the increasing rate of rate of reported and unreported accidents with the Luas I wonder how long Connex will last as an operator...Follow the link...

http://www.infotransport.co.uk/newssearch.php?search_word=connex&Submit_Query=Submit to see how this company operates/ had operated in the UK

Bee

maxheadroom

Bee wrote:

With the increasing rate of rate of reported and unreported accidents with the Luas I wonder how long Connex will last as an operator...Follow the link...

Hmm - just wondering how you can measure the rate of unreported accidents.

Also, Connex have a succesful record running the Stockholm metro, for instance.

BuffyBot

With the increasing rate of rate of reported and unreported accidents with the Luas I wonder how long Connex will last as an operator...Follow the link...

Believe it or not Connex are not the bogeymen they are made out to be. They inherited probably two of the worst rail franchises in the UK (South Central and South East), which were a complete shambles before privatisation anyway. Both of those areas were starved of investment, plagued by rolling stock which needed to be replaced 15 years ago, and were badly run long before Connex inherited them. Only now are they beginning to improve.

After losing the franchises, they sold their London bus operations to National Express which was a shame as they ran a reasonably clean, modern and comfortable fleet. Indeed, if you look at the operations they run outside the UK, they seem to do pretty well.

Trying to lump the blame on Connex for incidents on Luas so early is probably a tad unfair.

Victor

Bee wrote:

And what is the situation in case of a fire? Torched occupants! I would rather take my chance and exit promptly.

Hence the "Use only in emergency" button? (I haven't checked to see that these are on Luas)

DadaKopf

I've been on Connex's London South-East service before they lost the license. I tells you, every time I thought I was going to die or fall our the ancient doors. I felt like Sherlock Holmes travelling to the Lake District to solve some mysterious subterfuge.

The whole idea of this Connex business was to transfer their expertise and skills to Ireland. Just goes to show how bringing any semblance of order to this land or anarchy and chaos is bound to fail.

Bee

maxheadroom wrote:

Hmm - just wondering how you can measure the rate of unreported accidents.

Apologies for not making myself clear ...I was surprised on two occasions of personnally witnessing incidents that did not make the press.

That made me wonder how many more unreported incidents are there? :rolleyes:

Bee

Hagar

I's a bit like the dropping crime rate. People have lost faith in the Gardai's ability to catch criminals.
"Minor" crimes are often only reported if it's a must to claim the insurance.

My cynicism key is worn out, where can I get a new one?
Baastards probably stopped making them any more.

maxheadroom

Bee wrote:

Apologies for not making myself clear ...I was surprised on two occasions of personnally witnessing incidents that did not make the press.

That made me wonder how many more unreported incidents are there? :rolleyes:

Bee

I'm just curious more than anything else here - what kind of incidents? Such as luas vs car, luas vs pedestrian, luas vs bike?

I'd personally be of the opinion that if luas manages to hit anything, then that something probably shouldn't have been there in the first place, provided the luas driver is doing things by the book.

Hagar

maxheadroom wrote:

provided the luas driver is doing things by the book.

Like another Luas? Obviously not all drivers are doing things by the book.
Accidents happen. Covering them up... now that's another matter.

maxheadroom

Hagar wrote:

Like another Luas? Obviously not all drivers are doing things by the book.

Which is why I included that proviso.

But, it is quite difficult for a tram to hit a pedestrian, car or bike unless they are in its path. And, unless the luas is moving past a stop signal, for the most part if you're in its path, its your fault, because you shouldn't be there.

BrianD

Bee can you describe the two incidents that you witnessed?

The fact that they are unreported in the media, does not mean that they are not recorded for official health and safety purposes. A fender-bender between a Dublin Bus and a car does not necessarily make the news so why would one with a tram?

Bee

BrianD wrote:

Bee can you describe the two incidents that you witnessed?

The fact that they are unreported in the media, does not mean that they are not recorded for official health and safety purposes. A fender-bender between a Dublin Bus and a car does not necessarily make the news so why would one with a tram?

Some incidents..

Bus ,left wing mirror scraping along Luas at junction of IFSC/Gardiner St

Elderly lady in car / Luas incident outside of Busaras opposite Pearse St Cop Shoppe

Lunatic on bike weaving between tracks along Abbey St...toot from Luas startles individual and eeejit falls off bike.

Speaking of accidents been forced to happen..for a few weeks there is a skip blocking the pavement at a building site opposite Busaras forcing pedestrians onto the Luas tracks no warning signs at all to pedestrians etc. I rang DCC and tho' its on the pavement they would assume no responsibility in taking any action, I rang Luas and they said it was part of DCC's job etc to look after it...usual waffle from the time wasters with no results.

There are numerous areas about town that need a serious health and safety review before a needless "accident" occurs. By "accident" I mean the type created by inadequate engineering.

Bee

Victor

Bee wrote:

Bus ,left wing mirror scraping along Luas at junction of IFSC/Gardiner St

Hardly front page news.

Elderly lady in car / Luas incident outside of Busaras opposite Pearse St Cop Shoppe

What type of incident?

Lunatic on bike weaving between tracks along Abbey St...toot from Luas startles individual and eeejit falls off bike.

Part of me says it sounds like he deserved it, but whatever about a tram, a motor vehicle isn't allowed do this to a cyclist.

There are numerous areas about town that need a serious health and safety review before a needless "accident" occurs. By "accident" I mean the type created by inadequate engineering.

It's partly down to the narrow remit of the Health and Safety Authority and the legislation in use. H&S only 'applies' to workers, not the general public, who need to sue to restore (not uphold) their rights.

MrPudding

Bee wrote:

Some incidents..

Bus ,left wing mirror scraping along Luas at junction of IFSC/Gardiner St

I demand an investigation to find out why the Luas driver did not move over to let the bus past.

MrP

BrianD

In all fairness Bee, these are hardly news items. This is the type of incident that I would expect to occur on a regular basis, particularly in the early phase of operations. I suupect that they are incidents that happen on tram networks around the world on a daily basis. They should of course be logged by the operator.

Can you give examples of inadequate engineering?