Advice on getting Getting a New Motherboard and Cpu for Around €200

popey21

Im looking to upgrade a machine i have a have all components bar a motherboard and Cpu. I would use it for gaming and Video Encodeing. What would be the best buy for about €200-250 with delivery.

jozi

I dont know what would be your best buy but a amd xp 2500+ barton does get recomended a lot together with a good motherboard they can be overclocked to a 3200+.
I have the mobile vesion of the xp 2500 and have it overclocked from 1.8ghz to 2.5ghz. I think i paid about 80-90 for it so you have 100+ for a motherboard left
Abit have a very popular motherboard for overclocking not sure what model it is, someone else will know.

Jozi

uberpixie

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=120751&cks=PRL

sempron 2600+ , mobo, cpu fan, 512mb ram: €230

Thats if you need a fulll upgrade kit of komplett.

If you have PC 3200 ram

then maybe....

socket 754 amd64: you can get a dacent mobo for €100

cheapest cpu is a sempron 3100+ for the platform with the next steps up of an amd64 2800+ boxed for €150 and an amd64 3000+ for €171.

There is intel socket 478, getting a mobo is fine(€100) but their older cpus are hard to find, the lowest you can generally get is around a 3ghz and up which is around €200 or so.

So chances are the amd socket 745 will be your best bet

popey21

which would be the best performer/buy
and what sort of PSU would i need, i have at the mo a 380w silent psu and a cheap 400w would they do


Product AID: 17959 MB ATX S939 ABIT AV8, K8T800 Pro
http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=17888 = €111

AMD Athlon 64 2800+ Box Newcastle
http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=17933 =€143

=€254

Intel Pentium 4 3.0 GHz Boxed PC800 Socket PGA478, 1MB cache, Prescott
http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=123709&cks=PRL =€181


Abit IS7-E2 Mainboard for S478/800mhz I865PE, SATA, ATX, Dual-DDR, LAN
http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=123081&cks=PRL =€80

= €261

StRiKeR

you better off wait and save your money for something better than just go and get a cheap mobo and a slow cpu, 2500+ and a board is around your budget but its not worth getting, save it up for something good, like uberpixie saids, Athlon64 is a good choice, I recently upgraded mine to a Athlon64 3200+ with 1gig pc3200 Ram and running on Raid 0, really worth the wait for saving up the money!

BloodBath

Get a 2.8ghz prescott and overclock it to 3.6ghz. Should be no hastle with the new D0 stepping.

It would be the best for encoding.


BloodBath

StRiKeR

I wouldn't recommend overclocking, py the money and get the real thing! OC get you no where but hassles, it may seems ok for many people as they dont actually do that much with there PC apart from playing games that needs the high end power! but when it comes to complex stuff you may encounter problems, I had that before and I now no longer overclock, I do alot of video and audio encoding for years and when I was overclocking the job were not going too smooth but play games very well! and I used to run SCSI on all drives which I spent most the money on so I get cheaper CPU and overclock! it was not worth the hassle, if you want a system that less likely to let you down, dont OC! I'm not against it but I dont think its worth doing that anymore with the speed of the CPU these days! there used to be alot of fun in OC as you can really see there was a big increase in performance but nowdays not really, whats the point!

popey21

I agree with you StRiKeR on the overclocking its not for me . so what would motherboard would you suggest .

stevenmu

Just a quick warning, the Abit motherboard you have listed above is socket 939 but the CPU is socket 754, I'm don't think they're compatible. You should be able to get a 754 motherboard cheaper than that, Chaintech does one with an N-Force 3 250 chipset that's supposed to be pretty good for €94, I don't know of anyone using one but I saw reviews comparing it to more expensive ones and it performed just as well as them.

http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=16671

popey21

good spot stevenmu must of posted the wrong link. i like the sound of the nforce3 chipset . but i would like onboard raid what do you think of this one

Gigabyte GA-K8NS Pro nForce3 250 (Socket 754) Motherboard (MB-017-GI)

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Gigabyte1.html =€112.383

stevenmu

yeah, the IDE RAID could be handy and save having to splash out on SATA disks. There's a good comparison of 754 motherboards at anandtech here

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.html?i=2063

Col_Loki

I wouldn't recommend overclocking, py the money and get the real thing! OC get you no where but hassles, it may seems ok for many people as they dont actually do that much with there PC apart from playing games that needs the high end power! but when it comes to complex stuff you may encounter problems, I had that before and I now no longer overclock, I do alot of video and audio encoding for years and when I was overclocking the job were not going too smooth but play games very well! and I used to run SCSI on all drives which I spent most the money on so I get cheaper CPU and overclock! it was not worth the hassle, if you want a system that less likely to let you down, dont OC! I'm not against it but I dont think its worth doing that anymore with the speed of the CPU these days! there used to be alot of fun in OC as you can really see there was a big increase in performance but nowdays not really, whats the point

Your overclock obviously wasent stable then ? Some people thing stability is running some games / tests etc on the CPU and if it works ok and doesent crash then its stable. The propper way is to download Prime95 and run the torture test for 8+hours. Ive had overclocks that were grand for games and worked for encoding no probs but failed prime95 in 10mins........ if your overclock passes the Prime95 test then i would consider it stable.

The main reason for overclocking? Extra value for your money, its all about getting more performance than what you paid for. Alot of overclocks exceed the highest spec'd chip available and perform better due to higher FSB with better memory scores.

If you overclock properly and do the stability tests then the CPU should perform as reliably as a stock one would........

popey21

AMD Athlon 64 3000 (Socket 754) - OEM (CP-072-AM)

Gigabyte GA-K8NS Pro nForce3 250 (Socket 754) Motherboard (MB-017-GI)

Anybody knows what kind of PSU I would need for these. All I can find on the amd website is .” Overall current usage limitation on the power supply should not exceed a combined system power output for the +5V and +3.3V outputs.” What does that mean

StRiKeR

its depends what you gonna have in the PC, besides the cpu and board, but anyway get a 400w to 450w you cant go wrong, make sure its a good PSU not a cheap one for €30 or €40! The PSU I'm using cost less than €90.

and for the suggestion Col_Loki but I really dont see the point in oc anymore, it is interesting to see a cpu can run at extremely higher speed but for long term I dont think that be a good idea with todays cpu!

Gigabyte is pretty good, n if its an nForce it usually has raid onboard, sata doesnt cost that much, if you can get sata! you'll like it!

StRiKeR

BloodBath wrote:

Get a 2.8ghz prescott and overclock it to 3.6ghz. Should be no hastle with the new D0 stepping.

It would be the best for encoding.


BloodBath

I wouldnt chance oc or try anything to technical if i dont know what to do with an iso file

Col_Loki

Anybody knows what kind of PSU I would need for these.

You say you have a silent 380w power supply? What make is it? That might do just fine for the AMD64 rig, if its a good quality one then 380w is plenty.

its depends what you gonna have in the PC, besides the cpu and board, but anyway get a 400w to 450w you cant go wrong, make sure its a good PSU not a cheap one for €30 or €40! The PSU I'm using cost less than €90.

His old one might be fine but if its not €50-60 should sort him out. There are some €30-40 PSU's that would supprise you BTW ....... try the 300w Fortrons for example (produce ~380w) .

Over 380w is overkill with a decent PSU, especially if your not overclocking.

and for the suggestion Col_Loki but I really dont see the point in oc anymore, it is interesting to see a cpu can run at extremely higher speed but for long term I dont think that be a good idea with todays cpu!

Well theres a huge performance difference between an Xp2000+ running @1.7ghz and one thats overclocked to 2.5ghz......... that would be the main point, and the fact that the chip cost €50 !!

The key to overclocking is that all the chips are made the exact same . Ie Intel doesent make a destinction between a 2.8C and a 3.4C during the manufacturing process. The chips are taken out and tested and marked later on. As you can imagine the much more expensive chips are in far less demand than the 2.8C so Intel will make up its number of 3.4C from the batch that passed at that speed and send the rest down to be 3.2C's ....... and the same with the 3.2C's down to 3.0C's etc etc.
As the chips production gets better and better alot more chips pass at the higher speed but the bulk of the orderes they recieve are for the lower/mid end ones so it ends up that chips that would run at higher speeds on stock are being sold at lesser speeds to make up market demand......

Also intel / AMD , for a chip to pass it has to pass at a speed over the rated one (ie there is headroom) incase the motherboard undervolts slightly / cooling is a little off or whatever.

Overclocking exploits the two points, given the fact that the chips are tested to run on a stock cooler at the speed, there is headroom, its possibly a downgraded faster chip....... and the fact that you have better cooling makes overclocking well worth while and alot safer than you think. You can also increase voltage slightly aswell (depends on cooling). The main things that effect the CPU life is Heat and Voltage, if you cool the chip more then it helps to counteract the extra voltage.

Given a CPU is designed to last 10years, overclocking with extra voltage (excluding instant death - due to people putting too much through the chip) the lifespan of a CPU would be decreased by on average 30-50% depending on the voltage/heat/chip which means the CPU lasts 5years at worst....... and how much is the chip going to be worth then ? €5/10 mabye.

BTW On Intel chips (and possibly AMD64) once you keep the Vcore voltage down to a reasonable level (say 1.625v on intels) there should be no instant deaths (generally occur on intels over 1.75v running all the time).

jozi

Getting a chip and board with over clocking in mind is well worth it.
I got a xp 2500+ mobile chip and its running alot faster than a xp 3200+ does now, 2.5ghz where as stock it should be 1.8ghz

Jozi

EDIT: And i see i already mentioned that, sorry

StRiKeR

very detail but didn't I say i rather pay for the performance I get, rather than oc, I just dont have interest in oc anymore and I wouldn't recommend it, but go ahead if anyone want to I dont care, its not my cpu so not my money, I prefer to play it safe! You get what you pay for and I am happy with what I pay for!

Col_Loki

very detail but didn't I say i rather pay for the performance I get, rather than oc, I just dont have interest in oc anymore and I wouldn't recommend

Im not trying to convinse you to overclock, you were recomending that people dont overclock . Your point wasent the best for the reasons not to overclock TBH, the fact that you didnt properly check to insure the CPU was stable was the reason you had problems.

My points were well researched and giving people valid reasons as to why its not as bad/dangerous as you think. If you do it right and stick to certain limits you shouldnt have a problem at all. Not everyone has money to burn and is willing to pay the unwarrented high prices of the chips when they can have the same level for under half the price.

If your not going to take my points onboard thats fine, but make propper ones of your own to back up your recomendations for not doing so.......

VeVeX

StRiKeR wrote:

very detail but didn't I say i rather pay for the performance I get, rather than oc, I just dont have interest in oc anymore and I wouldn't recommend it, but go ahead if anyone want to I dont care, its not my cpu so not my money, I prefer to play it safe! You get what you pay for and I am happy with what I pay for!

I understand what your saying but basicly your sitting on a cpu that can perform to levels that chip that would have cost you €300 extra could do.

OC'ing may not be everyones cup of tea but at the end of the day your getting something extra from your original purchace.

I have a 3200+ Newcastle running at 3800+ speeds for well under half of what I would have paid for the 3800+. Has to be good value regardless.

Lets say for a comparison you were in the market for a Golf TDi. You know the red Di is faster but you also know that you can get the red i beyond the performace of the red Di for less money which would you go for?

StRiKeR

true but when I boost the BHP i mod the engine to make it stronger as well as improving the cooling, but cpu is different, I dont like the idea of pushing to so far without being able to make sure it doesn't weaker the cpu! its a digital device yes compare to a car which is a mechanical thing but pretty works the same when you running it over its recommended limit! and having to add or change for expansive cooling to be able to run the cpu at very high speed stable, kinda works out not much different for me, i wouldn't oc again but if i ever do I diff freeze the cpu! its the only way to know it wont overheat!

Col_Loki

Ok....... another way to look at it. The Xp2500+ is half the price of the Xp3200+ (or less than half). Get an Xp2500+, overclock it to the Xp3200+ point or past it and get great performance. If in the very unlightly event the Xp2500+ dies on you, just buy another one and overclock it again........ you have still saved money on the Xp3200+ and are probably getting better performance levels.

The chances of the CPU dieing if you are smart about it and set your limits is very small, if this doesent happen your sorted and have cheap top end performance....... what doesent make sence about that? I know personal opinion will vary but thats my view on things and it makes sence to me!!

Id feel far better about overclocking the CPU to the brink than i would GFX, id always drop off a bit on the overclock with the GFX card.

PS just noticed this...

I wouldnt chance oc or try anything to technical if i dont know what to do with an iso file

That gets my vote for most stupid line ive heard here in ages. What a lame ass remark........ you have came up with very stupid remarks about why to not overclock and ive given you some benifit and tried to show my points hopeing you would see sence. Who the hell cares what you do with your ISO files, it has nothing to do with the motherboard / CPU choice that this thread started off about........ and it sure as hell has no indication as to what bloodbath knows about overclocking.

TacT

Get out of it Striker! I've been overclocking my components for years now and have never killed a component nor had any of these stability issues you speak of.

I use my computer for work as well as play and it's v.important that it's rock-solid stable for me from day to day. It's secondary use is entertainment hence I like the additional speed for my games.

Overclocking is not dangerous, don't try to make it out to be as you don't know enough to be able to justify it as such. All you need is a bit of common sense and to test as you go. I hate it when people advise against overclocking! It's a niggley thing

You've already made it clear that you don't know how to overclock by your first post on the subject. You stated that your pc wasn't stable for work purposes but your games were flying -- that's not a stable overclock. You are clearly mis-informed on the subject so please, do not try to mis-inform others too. Overclocking has some great benefits and you can never have too many choices so don't blank it -- always consider it an option, like anything else.

Think about it -- here you are advising people that want great performance out of a new rig to spend loads of money and buy x. When they could have bought y cheaper and clocked it to x's speed, got the same performance as x but saved a few bob along the way. What is wrong with that? Please tell me someone?

Last but not least -- why in god's name do you think that a lot of manufacturer's have started to cater more and more for overclockers with their products in the past few years?