Scum sueing because they had to slop out!!!

gandalf

This is really taking the piss (if you forgive the pun). Talk about necks of concrete Paramiltary and criminal scum (or as some on here call them heroes :rolleyes:) sueing the state because they were damaged. They damaged an awful lot of innocent people thats why they were locked up in the first place.

As for that solictor in Limerick he is lower than an ambulance chaser.

I hope they are all sent packing, the state should add a year to their sentences for wasting taxpayers money.

Prisoners to sue over in-cell sanitation

15 September 2004 21:55

Senior paramilitary and criminal figures are among up to 800 prisoners and ex-prisoners who are suing the State.

The claimants say they have been traumatised and damaged as a result of being detained in cells that have no flush toilets.

At least 35 prison officers are also taking cases for damages in a class action suit which, like the army deafness claims, could cost the State millions.

Some of the country's most notorious criminals, among them the Real IRA director of operations, Liam Campbell and the drug dealer, Patrick Holland, are seeking compensation.

The solicitor representing the group, John Devane, says he is taking on new clients at a rate of up to 40 per week.

The Limerick solicitor says he has clients in every prison in the country and still has to visit more prisoners who want to hire him. According to Mr Devane, the inmates have a right to sue the State because their human rights have been violated.

The Department of Justice says it will vigorously contest the claims.

The claims from Irish prisoners follow a Scottish class action where the prisoner was awarded £5,000.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0915/prisoners.html

Champ

The claimants say they have been traumatised and damaged as a result of being detained in cells that have no flush toilets.

Ummm; perhaps they could argue "traumatised"; but it'd be interesting to see the specifics of damage as well as what evidence they'll try to present. :rolleyes:

At least 35 prison officers are also taking cases for damages in a class action suit which, like the army deafness claims, could cost the State millions.

Again it would be interesting to see any specifics of these cases

I wouldn't put it past some of the claimants to be trying to exploit the system; though if some of them have legitimate grievances i think they should be addressed ina fair and practical manner (not necessarily money?). I know that there are probably some very unsavory individuals in the prisons who'd inflict considerable more suffering than what they're complaining about and wouldn't bat an eyelash about it; though these individuals are the state's responsibility so if anything basically humane is lacking; it should be fixed.

Chucky the tree

Champ wrote:

:

I wouldn't put it past some of the claimants to be trying to exploit the system; though if some of them have legitimate grievances i think they should be addressed ina fair and practical manner (not necessarily money?). I know that there are probably some very unsavory individuals in the prisons who'd inflict considerable more suffering than what they're complaining about and wouldn't bat an eyelash about it; though these individuals are the state's responsibility so if anything basically humane is lacking; it should be fixed.

one of the prision guards is suing because he got a slop bucket poured over him. I am sure that wasnt a pleasant experience

arcadegame2004

I feel that for some prisoners, losing their liberty is sufficient punishment, and they are entitled to be free of inhuman and degrading treatment, which slopping out clearly is. It is Victorian and really outdated.

Referring to prisoners as "scum" as the author of this post is doing, is a bit harsh on those whose crimes are laughably small e.g. not paying parking-fine.

Chucky the tree

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Referring to prisoners as "scum" as the author of this post is doing, is a bit harsh on those whose crimes are laughably small e.g. not paying parking-fine.

how many people are in mountjoy because they didnt pay a parking fine?

simu

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I feel that for some prisoners, losing their liberty is sufficient punishment, and they are entitled to be free of inhuman and degrading treatment, which slopping out clearly is. It is Victorian and really outdated.

But, in the case of other prisoners, it's ok if they're treated badly?!

arcadegame2004

To be honest simu, you may have a point. Someone who is spending the rest of their life in prison perhaps should be considered as already getting sufficient punishment. This Victorian practice needs to be ended.

chewy

arcade if it weren't for the polls i'd think you were a different person?

MadsL

To be honest simu, you may have a point.

:eek:

Victor

arcadegame2004 wrote:

To be honest simu, you may have a point. Someone who is spending the rest of their life in prison perhaps should be considered as already getting sufficient punishment. This Victorian practice needs to be ended.

And we need to knock down Mounjoy and sell the site to Michael's developer buddies and build a new prison in Darndale. Actually, save money on maintainence, just build a wall around darndale, with just the one gate and an automated guard ....

The Muppet

I've heard it all now, slopping out traumatises these poor chaps. My what sheltered lives they live. Ok its outdated in this day and age to have to do it but I fail to see how it would traumatise anyone. My Idea of being traumatised would be having a dirty needle held to your throat by some scumbag while he relieves you of your valuables . As the cliche goes If you can't do the time don't do the crime.

ixoy

Yeah, this suit appeared first several weeks ago didn't it? It really beggars belief that certain members of the suit are talking about being dehumanized when their actions have already betrayed them to be less than human themselves. I wonder how they'll express their trauma in words in the case? And under what law are they suing? Which, I suppose, leads me to ask what liberties is a prisoner entitled to under the law (or conversely what ones are suspended)?

Personally, my heart's not bleeding here. To hear them complain about a small bucket, after the pain their crimes caused, makes me feel nauseous. I hope the lawyer though doesn't take some approach whereby he'll imply that by dehumanizing the prisoners, it will only inhibit their chances of rehabilitation - i.e. acknowledge the poor little dear's sufffering as human or they're more likely to reoffend.

Sleipnir

It's very unpleasant and nobody should have to slop-out but "traumatised" over it?
That's b*lls.

I disagree with the idea that losing their liberty is sufficient punishment.
Prisoners should not be allowed play or win the lotto (like that sex-offender in the U.K. did)
All rights but the basic human rights should be withdrawn, depending on the crime.


My gf's dad was telling me about a Garda who sued the state years ago becuase he was attacked and was traumatized afterwards.
In court his barrister argued that the man was impotent as a direct result of the trauma he experienced and he was awarded somthing like £50,000.

Nobody noticed his wife watching the proceedings from the gallery.....8 months pregnant !

leeroybrown

I don't know any of the specifics of the case but if they get one of the more reasonable members of the judiciary they may well win.

Sure they're in prison but it doesn't mean that they (only the men) should have to have buckets of their own faeces lying in their cells. Flushable toilets are not only more humane but also mean that less prison officers will get slopped on.

Boggle

simu wrote:

But, in the case of other prisoners, it's ok if they're treated badly?!

Yup!! Lets face it not all crimes are equal - protesting against bin taxes is hardly on a par with multiple murders. Anyway, I dont really believe that prison is hard enough. If a person is willing to rob another of his her rights (eg assault, robbery, murder) then they dont really deserve rights of their own. I honestly believe that even a colour TV and heating is too much luxury for some of these animals.

If prison wasn't so cosy (and if they didn't get out so quick) then an ex prisoner would never take a chance of going back. (And, before someone starts, I know its overlly simplistic!!!)

Victor

So what if it is a remand prisoner, who might not be convicted and might even be innocent?

Sleipnir

Did I say it should apply to everyone?

No, what I did say was;

Sleipnir wrote:

depending on the crime.

simu

Well, in my ideal world, a charter would be drawn up stating clearly the rights of each prisoner in the prison. Is there not such a thing available in Ireland at present?

I think that prisoners in this country would be better off if they were made to work in prison and so on but any such measures would have to be clearly defined by law rather than applied randomly by different prisons or prison officers.

In that case, it would be fair to let prisoners complain if they were being deprived of their rights. On the other hand, I don't think that money is a suitable compensation in many cases including this one (sometimes you have to accept that you were treated unfairly and no amount of money can change this) but that's a question to be discussed in another thread.

Champ

Well, in my ideal world, a charter would be drawn up stating clearly the rights of each prisoner in the prison. Is there not such a thing available in Ireland at present?

Here's a small follow-up on that:
http://www.oasis.gov.ie/justice/prison_system/prisoners_rights.html

pete

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I feel that for some prisoners, losing their liberty is sufficient punishment, and they are entitled to be free of inhuman and degrading treatment, which slopping out clearly is. It is Victorian and really outdated.

Referring to prisoners as "scum" as the author of this post is doing, is a bit harsh on those whose crimes are laughably small e.g. not paying parking-fine.

Jesus.

For once, I agree 100% with arcadegame2004.

I'll get me coat.

Hashbrown

Now what would be fair is that any compensation these “SCUM” receive is paid to their victims as compensation,

pete

Oh and can i be the first to say "The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by observing it's prisoners." - Dostoevsky ("after he did a little time"), via John Cusack in ConAir

joolsveer

It is not a victorian practice to slop out. Mountjoy was built in the 1850s with sanitation in the cells which were single occupancy. It was subsequently removed I believe to allow overcrowding!

Blub2k4

To anyone who says it is not Victorian to expect people to slop out, when was the last time you were in a house in Ireland or anywhere for that matter that we would consider modern that did not have a plumbed in toilet? What would you think of a house with regard to its modernity if it didn't have such a toilet? You would think it out of date and backward, am I correct? Now use this as a meter stick as to the basic treatment of people who are in prison, and dont let your prejudices get in the way.

Peter C

Pity about them, many years ago houses did not have toilets, will these people now sue someone for not having a potty in the room?

Whatever next? The world has gone mad!

ChipZilla

Somebody should write a book on how to make crime pay... :rolleyes: Commit a crime, get sent to the big house, sue for damages, cash in. Jesus, the system is geared to helping these scrotes, and not their victims. :mad: :mad: :mad:

There was a similar hoo-haa in Glasgow, where a prisoner was awarded £4200 after he sucessfully argued his human rights had been breached 'cos he had to carry his piss around in a pot:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3536330.stm

An appeal by the Scottish Executive is pending, as are other claims.

Seeing as judges in this country are are inconsistent as they are in the UK, the inhabitants in Mountjoy can expect cash payouts too... Sad, isn't it?

The Muppet

Peter C wrote:

Pity about them, many years ago houses did not have toilets, will these people now sue someone for having a potty in the room?

Whatever next? The world has gone mad!

They should put in a garden in the Joy with an out house at the end of it fully equipped with that rough loo paper public loos had in teh 70's.

Blub2k4

Peter C wrote:

Pity about them, many years ago houses did not have toilets,

Yes that is what I said, you're repeating me, the thing is that it is now normal to have a toilet, your point about people from then suing is (I hope) purposely stupid. These people are not always in Jail for serious crimes but then you dont care about them so what does is matter, right.
It is a basic human right to have sanitation.

The Muppet wrote:

They should put in a garden in the Joy with an out house at the end of it fully equipped with that rough loo paper public loos had in teh 70's.

The joy is closed muppet.