Irish Presidental Elections

gom

Now that Eamon Ryan, TD(Green Transport Spokesperson) and Dana have both announced that they will be seeking nominations it looks like there is to be an election after all.

FG and Labour have both been reluctant to run a candiadate so unless SF run someone it looks like it will be a 3 horse race(an unknown guy in sligo is also seeking nominations but he is a complete unknown nationally)

Who would you vote for? and Why?

Mary McEleese, Current Incubent
Dana Rosemary Scallon, Anti-Abortion Campaign Veteran
Eamon Ryan, Green TD for South Dublin


I leave out the guy from Sligo as I don't see him securing nominations from 4 councils easily now that their are 3 reasonibly well known candiadats seeking nominations.

Personally I think Eamon Ryan would be a spectaular president. He would take up issues like US uses of Shannon Airport and Global issues like the Kyoto Protocal with world leaders given the chance.

Akula

Mary any day of the week.

Dana... is just wayyy too loopers for me. Eamonn Ryan... the very thing you applaud him for I'm afraid of. Our constitution sets out the need for a president that is apolitical, think he would have a hard time doing that.

Redleslie2

gom wrote:

He would take up issues like US uses of Shannon Airport and Global issues like the Kyoto Protocal with world leaders given the chance.

Not without getting the government's approval first he wouldn't.

Either Ryan or McAleese, I don't care really, as long as Dana doesn't get to become supreme commander of the defence forces.

grumpytrousers

Erm...much as I'd like to think that the likes of Eamon Ryan would make heads of state of more war-hungry countries shuffle uncomfortably in their seats, andno matter what rhetoric he comes out with in the run-up to polling day, the Irish Presidency is window dressing. Simple as. He might 'take up' issues but I don't think the holder of the job is allowed to 'argue forcefully'

DeVore

Dear Lord,

Please give me the strength to beat Dana into a bloodied lump.

Your human,
DeV.

da_deadman

Ryan might be too political for the job. It is more necessary for the President to be diplomatic more than political, I think. If Ryan was to bring his Green Party politics to the job he may tackle the world leaders over the Kyoto agreement* and so on. But we need someone more like Mary Robinson, who was more diplomatic and a wonderful ambassador for the country. It is up to the Taoiseach and the government to debate and decide over policy regarding the US use of Shannon or Kyoto or the War on Terror, etc. and not the President. I'm not sure who would be best for the job out of all them, but if Dustin the Turkey runs again, then he'll get my vote...

*Is Ireland still above the level of the Kyoto Agreement? Bush gets a lot of flak over taking the US out of the agreement but up until recently we were also still above the level in the agreement, and I would think that we still are...

sliabh

A certain mischevious part of me nearly wants Dana to win. It would give everyone something to get worked up about again. The young out on the streets battling with their conservative elders for the future of nation!

chewy

what were mcaleeses politics, the status quo? so she was allowed express em...

why would eamon ryan want to be president?

well we just took a wrong turn saying we wouldn't have a carbon tax now we're all going have to pay eu fines.. yeah

Swarfboy

Yeah, Dustin to get the vote again...I'll go along with that one but it does really have to be Mary again as the others cannot be trusted to be diplomatic as Deadman says, and that is what Mary Robinson had by the bucket load. If we want people to say what they think then Dustin should be the next Pres.....

gom

You all seem to be missing the point on my support for Emaon Ryan. I don't want a political president any more than the next person. I want a president that does their job. A president of Ireland that defends abuses of the constitution by the government such as allowing US government planes carrying kidnapped Egyptian Asylum Seekers from Sweden fly through Shannon airport on the way to hidden interigation bases(concerning the leading G2 article - in the process of gathering more info and trying to remember my svenska).

Thats all really

Dana is up to fight a mission to stop supercedes of the constitution but thats a dud in my eyes as we have ammended it to allow the EU to do so.

pete

someone get David Norris to run

sliabh

gom wrote:

You all seem to be missing the point on my support for Emaon Ryan. I don't want a political president any more than the next person. I want a president that does their job. A president of Ireland that defends abuses of the constitution by the government

As the preisdent takes much of their legal advice from the presidential council there may not be much change in policy if the person at the top has changed.

Also they can only refuse to sign acts that are presented to them, they cannot veto or change existing government policy. They can speak out on such things but in practice this would be very limited.

Since the "thundering disgarce" incident [http://www.fact-index.com/i/ir/irish_presidential_election__1976.html] in the 70's which led to the resignation of President Ó Dálaigh in 1976 I don't think there has been any significant overlap between the day to day politics of the dail and the presidency. The other major issue where there was potential for the president to get involved in such things was when the late Brian Lenihan had his "mature recollection" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Lenihan#.27On_mature_recollection.27] in the 1990 campaign. And President Hillery quite rightly kept his mouth shut about the whole thing.

So I doubt the election of Eamon Ryan would change this situation one bit.

Chong

This is my opinion and in my opinion I am right but then again thats my opinion. Imho the president is a complete waste of time, resources and taxpayers money. All Mary McCleese is plain and ordinary ambassador for Ireland. She has now political input whatsoever. She swans around doing nothing except attending charity dinners and all Irelands. So let Dana go for it at least at one stage she brought a little light to a very depressed Irish nation, which left this country feeling proud. Dont get me wrong I am not saying that she should go for it or there should be an election. Plain and simple their should be no president as they are a complete waste of time, bottom line.

chewy

another strong case for the none of the above option

ArthurDent

DeVore wrote:

Dear Lord,

Please give me the strength to beat Dana into a bloodied lump.

Your human,
DeV.

lol!

I was listening to her on the news at one and ya know what she nearly had me convinced that she should be allowed run - if it's a case that county councillors from fine Gael have been told that they cnnot back her - well she has a bit of a point about this being fairly undemocratic. That being said I wouldn't want her near the Aras.

Agent Smith

i'd be intrested to see if/ and who sinn fein puts up...

but as it is, i'd vote green, cant bring myself to vote finna fail and dana is too crazy for my liking...

tba

im just glad that theres going to be an election

ArthurDent

From the 13th Article of the constitution
Article 13

1. 1° The President shall, on the nomination of Dáil Éireann, appoint the Taoiseach, that is, the head of the Government or Prime Minister.

2° The President shall, on the nomination of the Taoiseach with the previous approval of Dáil Éireann, appoint the other members of the Government.

3° The President shall, on the advice of the Taoiseach, accept the resignation or terminate the appointment of any member of the Government.

2. 1° Dáil Éireann shall be summoned and dissolved by the President on the advice of the Taoiseach.

2° The President may in his absolute discretion refuse to dissolve Dáil Éireann on the advice of a Taoiseach who has ceased to retain the support of a majority in Dáil Éireann.

3° The President may at any time, after consultation with the Council of State, convene a meeting of either or both of the Houses of the Oireachtas.

3. 1° Every Bill passed or deemed to have been passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas shall require the signature of the President for its enactment into law.

2° The President shall promulgate every law made by the Oireachtas.

4. The supreme command of the Defence Forces is hereby vested in the President.

5. 1° The exercise of the supreme command of the Defence Forces shall be regulated by law.

2° All commissioned officers of the Defence Forces shall hold their commissions from the President.

6. The right of pardon and the power to commute or remit punishment imposed by any court exercising criminal jurisdiction are hereby vested in the President, but such power of commutation or remission may also be conferred by law on other authorities.

7. 1° The President may, after consultation with the Council of State, communicate with the Houses of the Oireachtas by message or address on any matter of national or public importance.

2° The President may, after consultation with the Council of State, address a message to the Nation at any time on any such matter.

3° Every such message or address must, however, have received the approval of the Government.

8. 1° The President shall not be answerable to either House of the Oireachtas or to any court for the exercise and performance of the powers and functions of his office or for any act done or purporting to be done by him in the exercise and performance of these powers and functions.

2° The behaviour of the President may, however, be brought under review in either of the Houses of the Oireachtas for the purposes of section 10 of Article 12 of this Constitution, or by any court, tribunal or body appointed or designated by either of the Houses of the Oireachtas for the investigation of a charge under section 10 of the said Article.

9. The powers and functions conferred on the President by this Constitution shall be exercisable and performable by him only on the advice of the Government, save where it is provided by this Constitution that he shall act in his absolute discretion or after consultation with or in relation to the Council of State, or on the advice or nomination of, or on receipt of any other communication from, any other person or body.

10. Subject to this Constitution, additional powers and functions may be conferred on the President by law.



11. No power or function conferred on the President by law shall be exercisable or performable by him save only on the advice of the Government.

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/publications/297.htm


a little more that the role of ambassador suggested above - especially sections 4 - 6.
Can't get my head around Dana or Ryan as commander of the Defence forces.

tba

ArthurDent wrote:

11. No power or function conferred on the President by law shall be exercisable or performable by him save only on the advice of the Government.

I found a loop hole for Eamon

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Ajnag

Hows about a boards canidate?

If elected I shall hold lan partys in the aras.
Manipulate international leaders by whooping their ass's in Cs.
If their is a room for president in the dail, this will be duly handed over to Ireland off line.
I will hold large military parades.(dont quite know why, But it would be a shame to waste my command over the armed forces, **** it might as well get some bronze statue's while Im at it.)
Aquire tactical nuclear weapons for Irelands defensive statagy.(dont ask...I dont know why either.)Might as well throw in renewables and nuclear power in the face of rising oil costs.
Oh and blowjobs from interns and prayer session's with bono.

Seems to cover everything up.I might be able to swing galway cc in to nominating me.I assume boards members could at least find 2 other counsils.

Your future el presidente

Ok on a more serious note, can a president lobby for their own initives holding the govt to ransom by refusing to sign in new laws, as well as other possbile legal moves?.

andyhunt

Bring back the Queen. It would avoid all this election nonsense for a nonsense job. Whichever dummy gets the post has to smile and wave at people, the Queen is brilliant at this and has lots of experience. She's also proved she can survive scandal and strife and never puts her foot in her mouth.

Capt'n Midnight

sliabh wrote:

.. which led to the resignation of President Ó Dálaigh in 1976 I don't think there has been any significant overlap between the day to day politics of the dail and the presidency. The other major issue where there was potential for the president to get involved in such things was when the late Brian Lenihan had his "mature recollection"

http://www.fact-index.com/c/ce/cearbhall_o_dalaigh.html - more on that presidency

But Brian Lenihan as president, can you imagine, handing out the highest office in the state as a political reward to someone who woundn't rock the boat. Having Mrs Robinson elected gave the position a well needed shot in the arm had Brian been elected the role would have continued to fade away into nothingness becoming ceremonial only. Don't forget the job is supposed to be one of the checks and balances on the government so one of the last things you need is someone who will toe the line of one of the main parties.

more general info http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/President-of-Ireland

#
Special limitations on the role of the President
# The President may not leave the state without the consent of the Government.
# Every speech delivered by the President must have the prior approval of the Government.

Muppetry
http://www.petitiononline.com/pres4all/petition.html
Not sure what it's about since ONLY Irish Citzens can vote - how many people in norn-iron have passports and can't register to vote down here ??

frodi

andyhunt wrote:

Bring back the Queen. It would avoid all this election nonsense for a nonsense job. Whichever dummy gets the post has to smile and wave at people, the Queen is brilliant at this and has lots of experience. She's also proved she can survive scandal and strife and never puts her foot in her mouth.

If David Norris gets elected we will have our own queen

andyhunt

frodi wrote:

If David Norris gets elected we will have our own queen

lol.

Victor

andyhunt wrote:

She's also proved she .... never puts her foot in her mouth.

Thats a function reserved for her husband.

Borzoi

If the best we can come up with to run against McAleese is Ryan and Dana

Why bother, Mary will will without having to bother running a campaign.

Now if you've got good credible candidates (BTW Labour - this rules out Michael D) I'd be all for an election.

But for the moment lets save the money that an election would cost and use it to buy rotten fruit to throw at the wanabee candidates. All the fun, and no need for posters

hemlock666

I think that its an insult to our collective intelligence that the government is about to spend 10 million yoyos to hold a referendum to decide who gets to travel the world shaking hands and being grossly overpaid. Especially considering the long list of social ills in the country. People are living on the streets in record numbers for christs sake.

sceptre

So McAleese is definitely running (walking?) - story

And FG aren't putting up any opposition - story

frodi

sceptre wrote:

So McAleese is definitely running (walking?) - story

And FG aren't putting up any opposition - story

FG will be sending Mary McAleese thank you notes for getting them out of a hole. When was the last time that FG put up a candidate for pres that had even a close chance of winning?

sceptre

frodi wrote:

When was the last time that FG put up a candidate for pres that had even a close chance of winning?

Been a long time since Tom O'Higging all right.

grumpytrousers

Am I the only person who found Mary Mc's use of

a) Press conference (complete with pre-leaked story) and
b) the Aras as a backdrop for same

a little bit 'wrong'. I'm quite sure she's 'entitled' to do this, but effectively she was using all the pomp of her current position to enable her to get a head start on her Rivals.

What's the historical precedent for the announcement of presidents getting/going for a second term?

sliabh

grumpytrousers wrote:

Am I the only person who found Mary Mc's use of

a) Press conference (complete with pre-leaked story) and
b) the Aras as a backdrop for same

a little bit 'wrong'. I'm quite sure she's 'entitled' to do this, but effectively she was using all the pomp of her current position to enable her to get a head start on her Rivals.

What's the historical precedent for the announcement of presidents getting/going for a second term?

AFAIK there is no precedent. This is (potentially) the first time a sitting presendent has had to run for re-election. Previously they always were unopposed.

But the Times was reporting earlier in the week that McAlesee has put plans in place to seperate her campaigning from her presidential duties. So her events will be strictly defined as presidential or electoral. Her campaign staff are based seperate from the Aras and cannot work from there or use it's resources. I think the first press conference can be allowed as its a formal announcement of presidantial plans rather than a "I'm Mary vote for me" type of thing.

ReefBreak

Despite the fact that Sinn Féin have decided to back her, I'd still vote for Mary McAleese, as she's done a good job "building bridges" (cheesy slogan I know) with Northern Unionists. She's had a good term, in what is essentially a non-political role.

Eamon Ryan is probably the best Green TD in the Dáil at the moment. When he loses (because, let's be real here, McAleese is going to win it by a landslide), it may not be so bad for the Greens as the campaign will help to increase the party profile as a whole, particularly with Eamon Ryan's solid debating/interviewing style. He also seems to be the only Green TD with some amount of common sense around economic and European issues, rather than the extreme-left or smoked-salmon socialist views spouted by some of his colleagues. In fact, I'd wager that that's the real reason they're nominating Eamon Ryan.

I'd never vote for Dana, as I despite her extreme right-wing policies, but I do enjoy watching her get up the noses of certain left-wing media types. And getting up the noses of "certain left-wing media types" is always a good thing in my book.

I'd like to see Michael D run, but only because it'd be really, really funny. Vincent Browne was last week calling for Labour to nominate him - so that's probably why he has so far decided not to put him name down for it.

sliabh

It's a shame that the nomination process is so limited and skewed towards the establishment having a veto. While you don't want everyone running, it would be nice if the public could nominate someone, lets say if they got 20,000 voter signatures.

grumpytrousers

sliabh wrote:

It's a shame that the nomination process is so limited and skewed towards the establishment having a veto. While you don't want everyone running, it would be nice if the public could nominate someone, lets say if they got 20,000 voter signatures.

Good point, but lets face facts, the democratic vacuum is there anyway inasmuch as the cost of running an election is huge anyway unless you got huge political muscle.

I.e. if you can't get a few county councillors to like the cut of your jib by buying them chicken burgers and glasses of TK lemonade, you've no chance with the general public...

ChipZilla

If by some miracle Dana ever did become president I promise I would be at the Aras with a sniper rifle before she got her bags unpacked. :mad:

bus77

Dana obviosly has no chance of winning. Is no one telling her that? :eek:

grumpytrousers

bus77 wrote:

Dana obviosly has no chance of winning. Is no one telling her that? :eek:

There are a lot of the 'Plain people of Ireland' who would vote for her. In a heartbeat.

Not enough to get her in the door, but a sizeable amount. Just 'cos me, you, none of your friends and f*** all people on this board think she's any good isn't, alas, a representative cross section of the public. It's an unfortunate side effect of democracy, but even people who will vote for the 'wrong person' still get to vote...

aodh_rua

grumpytrousers wrote:

Am I the only person who found Mary Mc's use of

a) Press conference (complete with pre-leaked story) and
b) the Aras as a backdrop for same

a little bit 'wrong'. I'm quite sure she's 'entitled' to do this, but effectively she was using all the pomp of her current position to enable her to get a head start on her Rivals.

What's the historical precedent for the announcement of presidents getting/going for a second term?

I found it a little bit cheeky to announce it as she did. She also did a bit of sideways campaigning by saying that she hoped her record would encourage other candidates to embrace the challenge.

I really don't understand where all the media sentiment that she's been great has come from. Within the definition of her role as president she hasn't done a great job of standing up for the constitution and ensuring that legislation is consistent with it (the debacle over the trespass laws, the passing of by-laws restricting protests and the use of our neutral army to protect US military assets in Shannon to name a few). The media contribute to the non-event of our presidency by avoiding any critical analysis of the job or its holder, not unlike the prevailing approach to the guards prior to the shenanigans in Donegal and May Day 2002.

grumpytrousers

You obv didn't hear her interviewed by Matt Cooper. Apparantly she's "given loads of people hope to do their job". Or maybe it was loads of people have "given her hope to do her job".

Mind you, I'm not sure that if I spent x hours a week as a volunteer for a charidy how much inspiration I'd get from a grinning Norrie who brings me 'round the gaff for tea and a fig roll just before she f***s off to open another Credit Union.

aodh_rua

grumpytrousers wrote:

You obv didn't hear her interviewed by Matt Cooper. Apparantly she's "given loads of people hope to do their job". Or maybe it was loads of people have "given her hope to do her job".

Mind you, I'm not sure that if I spent x hours a week as a volunteer for a charidy how much inspiration I'd get from a grinning Norrie who brings me 'round the gaff for tea and a fig roll just before she f***s off to open another Credit Union.

I also missed RTE's fawning documentary about her during the summer, which, had she declared her candidacy then, couldn't have been broadcast.

mycroft

I also missed RTE's fawning documentary about her during the summer, which, had she declared her candidacy then, couldn't have been broadcast.

Thats was first broadcast on St Paddys day, and you're right an hour long party political broadcast paid for by your licence fee.

I'm not fond of Mc Aleese on many levels, but....

One thing I will say for her, is that as a child her 16 yo brother (who is blind) had his throat cut by loyalist thugs, the family home was attacked and her fathers business shot up.

She is now playing an active role in peace process, I don't think many people who had been through what she went through as a child would do the same in her position.

Captain Planet

Ok, so president being apolitical:
Ryan is no fool. At this point he has figured just what is illegal for the president to do etc. Robinson showed that the office can be political, independent and dynamic. McAleese has failed under all of those fields. Her term has been uniquely bland, any speech she has nade has been twee and sentimental. Another president (robinson) would have found ways to make statements and challenge the government, and Ryan could do it too. McAleese is popular bcause she is a Mammy figure. She hasnt held anyone to account, or used the office in any constructive way. She is nice, comfortable, like a Mammy.

We demand far too little from our elected reps, its time we had some principles in the Aras, its time we elected someone because we shared their ideals-because they had any ideals at all!

14yrs is too long for any president, "bland Macca" especially, its time for a change. As for Dana, I hope she gets nominated, should syphon off some of McAleese's conservative support.

As for Ryan himself. He would be amazing, "a good shot in the arm" is right, intelligent, dignified, principled, not McAleese...the list goes on....

De Rebel

sliabh wrote:

AFAIK there is no precedent. This is (potentially) the first time a sitting presendent has had to run for re-election. Previously they always were unopposed.

Not correct. de Valera was sitting president in 1966 when he went for re-election and came very close to being defeated by Tom O'Higgins of FG.

(Two other presidents served 2 terms, both of these unopposed for their second terms. They were Sean T. O'Kelly and Paddy Hillary)

MadsL

McAleese has failed under all of those fields. Her term has been uniquely bland, any speech she has nade has been twee and sentimental. Another president (robinson) would have found ways to make statements and challenge the government, and Ryan could do it too. McAleese is popular bcause she is a Mammy figure. She hasnt held anyone to account, or used the office in any constructive way. She is nice, comfortable, like a Mammy.

Spot On. She's barely done a thing of note in the last few years, we need a much more vigourous candidate. I'm disappointed she's running again.

ReefBreak

I think those rose-tinted glasses may be having an affect. I found Robinson to be far more bland, twee and sentimental than McAleese ever was. Robinson has also made some comments since leaving office (reported by John Waters) that proved she was blatantly sexist to boot.

grumpytrousers

De Rebel wrote:

Not correct. de Valera was sitting president in 1966 when he went for re-election and came very close to being defeated by Tom O'Higgins of FG.

(Two other presidents served 2 terms, both of these unopposed for their second terms. They were Sean T. O'Kelly and Paddy Hillary)

Just wondering out loud....Mary seems to have 'nominated herself' and the implication appears to be that she is cross party...or at least independent.

Was Dev not 'nominated by FF' around the same time that FG decided to run somebody.

I'm just this may be the first time that THIS set of circumstances have thrown themselves up...

anybody around since the time of Dev....anyone...Bueller....anyone?