Silicon republic - "DSL rollout dogged by high line failure rates"

Dangger

From Silicon Republic

Absolutely outstanding work John and Damian and all the committee crew.

Ireland Offline’s John Timmons alleges that much of the problem is due to the use of outdated equipment used by Eircom within unbundled local exchanges. Esat BT’s Peter Evans backed up this argument, pointing out that much of the equipment used in unbundling the local loop was acquired in the late Nineties; delayed by a court case with the regulator, Eircom only began unbundling the local loop in 2002.

Timmons’ colleague Damian Mulley said he has made numerous requests to ComReg for more information on the situation. “Eircom is supposed to provide ComReg with information on split lines, and while existing lines have been split, it has been prohibited from doing this on new lines.”

Mulley added: “IrelandOffline believes that Eircom is sweating its assets. It is charging the highest line rental in Europe and what we get in return is a substandard, decaying network.”

Siliconrepublic.com has sent detailed questions about the issue of line splitting to both Eircom and the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, and was still awaiting a response at the time of going to press.

Ripwave

Timmons’ colleague Damian Mulley said he has made numerous requests to ComReg for more information on the situation. “Eircom is supposed to provide ComReg with information on split lines, and while existing lines have been split, it has been prohibited from doing this on new lines.”

Eircom is not prohibited from splitting new lines. If it's a choice between a split line or no line at all, then eircom may provice a split line, but they are supposed to inform the customer before hand, and endeavour to ensure that the line that is to be split won't be adversely affected (in other words, they aren't supposed to split a line that is being used by omeone else for dialup internet access).

damien

I think this is the most important bit in the whole article:

Less than 50pc of the 1.7 million phone lines in the Republic are capable of carrying digital subscriber line (DSL)

Delphi91

Ripwave wrote:

...in other words, they aren't supposed to split a line that is being used by omeone else for dialup internet access.

But since Eircom aren't obliged to provide a "workable" Internet access service, why should they worry? If they split my line (which is used 99.9% of the time for Internet access only) and I ring up to say that my connection speed has gone down, or the quality of connection has disimproved, I'll be told that they have no obligation to provide Internet access.

Mike

Ripwave

Delphi91 wrote:

But since Eircom aren't obliged to provide a "workable" Internet access service, why should they worry?

I didn't say that they'd worry - I said that they have been told to take extra care in those situations (as against being told that they can't split any new lines).

Whether they actually pay attention to any of this, I couldn't say.

Victor

Mulley added: “IrelandOffline believes that Eircom is sweating its assets. It

Nothing wrong with sweating assets. Getting the maximum out of an asset (while maintian prudent contingency), means cheaper unit prices and higher profits. However what eircom are doing is sweating assets until they break, which is another matter completely.

jwt

There is when your regulator keeps justifying prices higher than Europe by saying its for investment in the network. i.e line rent LLu etc

John

eircomtribunal

Well done Damien and John. This lie has to get exposed. Comreg, the DCMNR and the press have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
And not to forget: Even if we had 1 million broadband lines, then this would be a terribly low availability, compared with the EU-15 average bb availability, which the Minister has asked Comreg to achieve or better (!) for Ireland by mid 2005.

P.

spongebob

Ripwave wrote:

I didn't say that they'd worry - I said that they have been told to take extra care in those situations (as against being told that they can't split any new lines).

Whether they actually pay attention to any of this, I couldn't say.

They have started to pay heed to threats involving chainsaws and poles in parts of the midlands, beyond that I can say no more

M

damien

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?uid=test&sid=49oJZsv4&storyid=single3767

ComReg expresses concern over line failures


08.09.2004 - The Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg) has expressed its ‘concern’ over lack of information being given to consumers by Eircom following allegations that less than 50pc of phone lines in Ireland are capable of handling digital subscriber line (DSL) broadband due to being either too far from a local exchange or for failing line tests by Eircom engineers.
Eircom is required to furnish ComReg with statistical information on the number of telephone lines that fail signal tests for capability to carry DSL, or ‘always on’ high-speed internet access. However, under strict Eircom conditions, ComReg is prohibited from communicating these details to the general public.

In a statement to siliconrepublic.com, the regulator said: “ComReg is concerned at the lack of information given to prospective broadband customers whose telephone line “fails” for broadband. Eircom has stated that the reasons why a line fails can be due to a number of individual factors.

“ComReg understands that customers are not given a specific reason why their line fails and therefore are left with no information as to when or if they may obtain a DSL service in the future.

“ComReg has requested Eircom to examine the situation and to improve transparency for customers. ComReg has also requested details of statistics on line failures under the individual factors.”

It has been alleged by both Esat BT and lobby group Ireland Offline that one of the prime reasons phone lines are failing tests is due to the now forbidden practice of line splitting, otherwise known as ‘pair gain’ or putting a ‘carrier on the network’ that occurred up until 2001. Under this practice, up to 150 houses in an urban area where line splitting was practiced would, for example, share less than 100 copper paired lines to the local exchange.

While this was acceptable for making telephone calls, the advent of broadband meant that up to a third of houses in an urban area would be incapable of receiving DSL whilst next door neighbours could. The practice of line splitting was prohibited in 2001. However, it has been alleged that already existing split lines in Ireland’s PSTN network have not been replaced or upgraded.

As a result, both Esat BT and IrelandOffline allege that as many as 50pc of phone lines in Ireland are incapable of receiving DSL due to line splitting, distance from the nearest exchange and other factors such as equipment such as fax machines and Sky boxes affecting test signals.

An informed source told siliconrepublic.com that TDs and Senators are being “bombarded” with complaints from irate citizens who can’t receive DSL.

By John Kennedy

bealtine

damien.m wrote:

ComReg expresses concern over line failures

Looks like they were embarrassed into saying something...
Now I wonder can "concern" be turned into action?

Perhaps a simple thing like implementing "functional internet access",
like they were supposed to do over a year ago, might go some way to
limiting the damage? At least that way eircom would have no choice
but to actually fix up some of the crap copper...replace all those cheezy
aluminium cables and the DACS that are littered all over the country.

But no that would require intelligence...and as far as Comreg are concerned that's an oxymoron, or is it just morons?

I feel another pointless Comreg PR statement comming on...far easier to make
a PR statement than actually do anything useful.

jwt

bealtine wrote:

Perhaps a simple thing like implementing "functional internet access",
like they were supposed to do over a year ago, might go some way to
limiting the damage? At least that way eircom would have no choice
but to actually fix up some of the crap copper...replace all those cheezy
aluminium cables and the DACS that are littered all over the country.

FIA would be a good start to forcing Eircom to maintain the network. Especially if it was set at a reasonable rate say above 33,600 with annual reviews as technology moves on.

ISDN standard would be great but we've no hope of that.

John

eircomtribunal

jwt wrote:

ISDN standard would be great but we've no hope of that.

John

I don't think we should have no hope, or hope – we should not ask for less than that.
It's exactly what the Danish regulator did: specify in the USO the requirement for all telephone lines to be of ISDN quality, thus practically regulating for universal broadband access in the country.

Comreg's current economic analysis, explicitly stated in many of their documents, namely that in order to "encourage" the incumbent to invest into the network, the incumbent has to be given the opportunity to make plenty of profits is absolutely idiotic and proven to be idiotic. In a situation of no competition the only "incentive" to invest into the network can arise from regulation.

About the splitter issue and Comreg.
We published these lines on Eircomtribunal.com in December 2002:
Line splitters cannot be legally installed since April 2002, and you should not put up with it. If you are hobbled by one and want to "break free", write to Eircom demanding its removal and send a copy to ComReg as reference."

In January 2003 I got a call from Comreg and was told: Please remove those incorrect statements from your web site. Eircom have every right to install these carrier systems in any way they deem it necessary. (Only in cases of LLU [and we know that LLU did practically not take place] have Eircom to remove those carriers, if technically feasible.) The Comreg person assured me that for example in the UK BT was installing these splitters left, right and centre. I know now, that this is not the case. In fact BT have since a good few years (yes, it took as well complaints) removed any technical hindrance in the line of a bb applicant. According to OFCOM (Oftel back then) only 3% of UK lines on bb enabled exchanges cannot be fixed for bb by engineering staff. I think BT now claims that all lines on bb enabled exchanges can be and are made to carry broadband. As I understand they have even ceased bb line testing.

P.

P.S.: Comreg=ODTR=Comreg=ODTR

damien

Our Press Release on this matter.

IRELANDOFFLINE STUNNED AT LINE FAILURE RATES

DUBLIN, SEPT 08 2004 -- Reacting to articles in Silicon Republic this week
where line failure rates were made public, Communications pressure group
IrelandOffline was stunned to learn that 30% of broadband enabled lines
fail. "This proves how far Ireland has slipped from having one of the best
phone networks in the world at the start the 90s to being the European
basket case today." said spokesperson Elana Kehoe.

IrelandOffline questions how Eircom can justify charging one of the highest
line rentals in Europe given the appalling failure rate on their lines.
"Eircom have been happily telling all who will listen that they have 1
million broadband enabled lines, yet 30% of them were failing. Can this 30%
really be called broadband enabled ? "

In Jan 2003* ComReg publicised their awareness of unacceptable line failure
results when they said 'ComReg is concerned to hear reports of a
disproportionate level of line test failures in urban areas... ComReg
intends to continue monitoring this situation and will follow up with Eircom
if necessary '

IrelandOffline now calls on ComReg to disclose the extent and the results of
its monitoring activity in this critical area and to reveal the results of
its follow up activities with Eircom. This is all the more urgent given
Eircoms continued refusal to reveal line failure data.

In light of the figures revealed by the reports, IrelandOffline calls on
ComReg to immediately publish the facts and the remedial plans which have
been put in place. Comreg has been aware of the problem for at least 21
months and as regulator is clearly charged with responsibility for driving
corrective action.

IrelandOffline believes that this extraordinary failure rate undermines the
targets set by the Minister and seriously damages the national interest. If
Comreg has failed to act on this appalling situation, it is a major
dereliction of its duties and the Minister for Communications should
immediately intervene and direct Comreg to act urgently and decisively. The
Minister will also need to investigate why ComReg, despite the considerable
public resources it receives, has failed to act on this information in a
timely manner.

* pg 22 of ComReg document 'Future Delivery of Broadband in Ireland' Jan
2003

Moriarty

I've split the off topic stuff over to this thread.

DonegalMan

damien.m wrote:

Our Press Release on this matter.

Well done guys ('n gal )

I consider that to be the best ever Press Release that I have seen from IOFFL.

It is aggressive without being offensive and hopefully will stir up the media.

Fair play to the interim committe for the amount of postive activity over the last few weeks.

bealtine

eircomtribunal wrote:

I think BT now claims that all lines on bb enabled exchanges can be and are made to carry broadband. As I understand they have even ceased bb line testing.

BT now specify the limits for bb on line loss. The limit now is 60db which
normally equates to 6km. This is for their 1Mb service.
The limit has been removed on 512k service which according to BT will allow almost any line in the UK to now get DSL. They supply the kit and if it doesn't work they (BT) will send out an engineer, free of charge, to fix the problems.

They now equate DSL service to analogue TV service in that the service should be available to similar numbers of people...BT estimates that 99.4 per cent of UK homes and businesses should be able to get 512kb/sec ADSL service by August 2005.

spongebob

To add insult to injury it should not be forgotten that the line quality data that Comreg are sitting on was gathered in order to provide a definition of Functional Internet Access where Functional Internet Access was Internet Access at a figure hgher than 0k .

When the risible "Ok" USO was published in July 2003, Comreg tried to fudge ther July 2003 definition of Functional Internet Access = 0k by asking for a series of reports that would be followed by action from Comreg

Comreg have had all the information that they need since the 24/10/2003 and have since refused to enforce the legally mandated "Functional Internet Access" for every line in Ireland ........by the way the requirement is legally binding for Analogue Lines Only and is 28.8k in the UK , not 0k , based on the exact same law, an EU directive from 2002 .

The Comreg functionary in charge of the non implementation of the EU directive is Mike Byrne, thats mike.byrne@comreg.ie

Here is a link to that infamous 0k USO

http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg0387.pdf

25/07/2003

Page 19 of 24 .

"ComReg will shortly meet with eircom to discuss the implementation of the
measures set out within this Decision Notice and to provide any clarifications that may be necessary. While the main obligations take immediate effect, further development of specific measures is required as specified in the Decision Notice. The timetable for the development of these additional areas is summarised below.

Additional Measures Date for Delivery by eircom
Development of requirements for assessing the
reasonableness of requests
To ComReg by 24th
October 2003
Develop terms and conditions for access To ComReg by 24th
October 2003
Publish statement on factors affecting network
performance
To ComReg by 24th
October 2003

and

Inform ComReg of number/location of carrier
systems
To ComReg by 24th
October 2003

and wait for it

Develop a network plan to address network
performance issues
To be specified by
ComReg

Almost a full year later Comreg have done nothing about the plan to address network performance issues as per their own "Decision Notice" but I am sure that Mike Byrne will clearly explain why he is not enforcing the EU directive if contacted by Silicon Republic or indeed by anybody who would like to find out why before the EGM . As the information on lne quality has been gathered for the purpose of providing a Universal Service and not for Competition Analysis purposes (which could I see no reason why it should be withheld from the long sufferng Irish public who labour under some vague illusion that the Highest Line Rental on the planet gets them a service on that line at or near the norms of civilised society . Even 2.4k would be good ......like in the old days of the last century.

M

damien

Muck wrote:

but I am sure that Mike Byrne will clearly explain why he is not enforcing the EU directive if contacted by Silicon Republic or indeed by anybody who would like to find out why before the EGM

I have numerous information requests in with ComReg at the moment. This is one of the things I requested. They are "getting back to me" about this.

Dangger

Fair play to the interim committe for the amount of postive activity over the last few weeks.

Weeks!!! What about just the last few days! Are you guys sleeping anymore?

spongebob

Ask Mike Byrne directly Damien . Its on his desk and has been since last October !

M

damien

Dangger wrote:

Are you guys sleeping anymore?

Honestly ? No. Not enough.

There's hopefully a lot more on the horizon which will get released soon. We live in interesting times as the famous phrase goes.

Ripwave

Muck wrote:

Almost a full year later Comreg have done nothing about the plan to address network performance issues as per their own "Decision Notice" but I am sure that Mike Byrne will clearly explain why he is not enforcing the EU directive

What I'd like to know is why eircom were permitted to hike the line rental before this issue was satisfactorily resolved?

Muck wrote:

As the information on lne quality has been gathered for the purpose of providing a Universal Service and not for Competition Analysis purposes (which could I see no reason why it should be withheld from the long sufferng Irish public

You have the wrong end of the stick - it's not being kept from the Irish public - eircom don't give a damn about the Irish public, who have proved time and again their willingness to bend over and take it from Tony's boys.

The information is being kept from the institutional shareholders, who'd have a fit if they knew the crap they'd bought. The fact that it's being kept from the Irish Pbulic is just a side effect.

spongebob

Ripwave wrote:

The information is being kept from the institutional shareholders, who'd have a fit if they knew the crap they'd bought. The fact that it's being kept from the Irish Pbulic is just a side effect.

Surely you dont mean that honest Dave McRedmond lied to the institutions who bought into Eircom in March 2004 when it was refloated......just so he could get his €6m bonus .

M

Ripwave

Muck wrote:

Surely you dont mean that honest Dave McRedmond lied to the institutions who bought into Eircom in March 2004 when it was refloated......just so he could get his €6m bonus .

No - the shower that he hired to handle the sale were such muppets that they didn't register their holding with the LSE because they didn't realize that Eircom was a UK company. With that sort of instutional cretinism being in play, he wouldn't have needed to lie.

(John Bruton is getting lots of positive coverage today. Isn't he the one who said "You didn't ask me the right question?").

Padraig Mor

Hello folks,

New to Boards (long time lurker), so be nice to me if I make an eejit of myself!

I've moved into a brand new house within the last two months. I applied for a phone line almost immediately, but it was only connected last Friday. The main reason for getting the line was for DSL; naturally when I enquired before ordering the line I was told that they could only tell me if I could get DSL *after* the line was connected. The house is near Cobh, Co. Cork, where the exchange is enabled. I used Eircom's web line testing procedure to test the number of the building site office (a house within the estate) and it passed.

Anyway, I asked the engineer last Friday about getting BB in. He replied that I almost certainly couldn't get it because there was a 'mini-exchange' for the housing estate. I mentioned about the site office but he said that that was run directly off the Cobh exchange.

So my question is: is this 'mini-exchange' basically a line splitter? And if so, how can they do this if they're prohibited from splitting lines? And what course of action is available to me? I have provisionally ordered Digiweb wireless but would prefer to use DSL.

Ripwave

Padraig Mor wrote:

So my question is: is this 'mini-exchange' basically a line splitter?

No, it's just what it says - a small telephone exchange. It's likely that there isn't any room to physically add DSL equipment, though if it's fairly new it might be upgradable. But it appears that sub-exchanges are way down on the list of priorities for DSL provisioning.

And if so, how can they do this if they're prohibited from splitting lines?

They're not prohibited from splitting lines. Would you be happier if they had told you that you couldn't get a phone line at all?

And what course of action is available to me? I have provisionally ordered Digiweb wireless but would prefer to use DSL.

If DSL isn't available on your exchange, then there isn't any course of action available to you.

This whole business of not being able to tell you whether a line qualifies for DSL before they install it is a load of cobblers - they should be required to tell you what they do know - the length of the line, and whether it is connected to a DSL enabled exchange, which should give some indication of whether it's likely to support DSL or not.

But there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that ComReg will ever require them to provide that information.

spongebob

A mini exchange still means you have your own copper but Eircom have not installed DSL in there, merely a normal remote concentrator. You also have a short copper run before the mini exchange concentrates the lines onto fibre. A splitter is where you share the copper from the exchange to your premises for some of the way or most of it.

As the building serves 200-300 lines they will not install the extra DSL Kit in addition to the remote concentrator. They see you as having a tiny exchange in effect and not worth investing in. The builder is liable for not telling you about the exchange, you should consider suing him for it if he supplied the land for it .

The DSL kit is the size of a large pizza box and costs about €2000 for 16 - 32 DSL lines , hardly a ball breaker .

M

madboggar

i live in Kilcock Co.Kildare, i recently went to eircom to test my line for broadband, they tested it and it failed, i asked for a reason and i was told by the operator that it was a distance problem from the exchange i informed the operator that i lived directly accross the road from the exchange and this could not be the problem, then he started mumbling that the line could be the problem i asked him would eircom come and fix this, he replied that they had no way of fully testing the line and could not give me a good reason why the line failed..

I am a new home owner in kilcock the lines have been put down new from my house to the end of the street. So i think that it is up to eircom to provide me with a fully working digital enabled line all the way to the exchange.

So after that phone call i went and tested other numbers in the area, not one of them passed a broadband test. What does this tell you ???? BROADBAND ENABLED AREA MY ARSS..

Where is are line rental money going too ???? This is a total disgrace.

Syth

eircomtribunal wrote:

We published these lines on Eircomtribunal.com in December 2002:
Line splitters cannot be legally installed since April 2002, and you should not put up with it. If you are hobbled by one and want to "break free", write to Eircom demanding its removal and send a copy to ComReg as reference."

That links doesn't work. There is a " at the end of the URL. The correct URL is http://www.eircomtribunal.com/dossier_splitter.html