FX5900XT or 9800 PRO ?

Chad ghostal

Sorry to clog up the board with another "which is better?" thread,
its just ive ordered an FX5900XT from komplett and now im having second thoughts.. :rolleyes:
afaik i still have some time to hange my mind (mobo is backordered)

theyr both similar prices, give or take 10 or so euros..
i went for the geforce orginally because i didnt think the radeon had much support on linux, but now after reading reviews the geforce is mostly compared to the 9600XT...

i know a fair few people have 9800 PRO.. how is the linux support?
or is the performance difference neglabible and i should stay with geforce??

all suggestions welcome
thanks.

Ciaran500

9800Pro will perform better. If you can stretch to €250 you could get a 6800. This would perform better than both cards and have good linux support.


EDIT: Did you know the 5900XT is slower than the 5900?

Here's a review comparing all the last generation cards. http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/index.html

popey21

Ciaran500 wrote:

9800Pro will perform better. If you can stretch to €250 you could get a 6800. This would perform better than both cards and have good linux support.


Could you post a link to were i could get a 6800 for €250. the cheapeast i have seen is 299.00 EUR and thats a 6800fx

Ciaran500

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/GeForce_6800.html

The top one.

popey21

Thanks Ciaran500. Thats a good price. ill have to look into that. was about to order the ATI 9800. How does this card hold up for doom3

Chad ghostal

thanks ciaran, but i dont think ill be able to stretch to 270 (inc deliver), i was thinking if its not too late to go for the saphire 9800 pro retail-lite on Komplett
..
its just the linux support thats nagging at me
must check out what type of support>

Mutant_Fruit

Even if komplett ship the card to you, you can always apply for the "7-day cooloff period", and return it free of charge (except for the shipping costs on return postage).

The Sapphire 9800pro is supposed to be quite good (if i remember correctly). A good choice!

popey21

I found a 128MB Leadtek A400LE 6800LE TV/DVI Bulk for 218.99 EUR on
http://www.jes.de/ does anyone know the main difference with this compared to the XFX GeForce 6800 Extreme Gamers Edition 128MB DDR TV-Out/Dual DVI thats on http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/GeForce_6800.html for 285.365 EUR with delivery

Jammer

My brothers 5900XT is as good as my 9800Pro, but for the sake of 10quid, i'd get the 9800pro as it is regarded as a better card. His Leadtek 5900XT overclocks way past mine..if ur into that kind of thing.

Mutant_Fruit

fidel wrote:

5900 is lot better, especially for doom 3, does urs have VIVO?

When looking at this benchmark, bear in mind that this is the ULTRA version of the 5900, not the bog standard version. I'm not sure what the performance or price difference is between em, but here is how the ULTRA compares to the 9800pro. The standard 5900 could be a lot worse!

Benchmark
In Tom's review, the 9800pro wins in 95% of the benchmarks, but a lot of them seemed to be CPU limited.

Jammer

the 5900XT clocks to the ultra, and beyond...only difference is the ultra has an extra 128mb of ram onboard

Chad ghostal

Thanks for the suggestions lads,
i think ill stick with 5900xt after all,
its not worth the hassle to change now, and as jammer said, the 5900xt can overclock pretty well as is..

judging by this review, the 5900xt can be oc'd to perform better than radeon 9800pro ..

po0k

Flash the 9800pro to XT firmware, add an Arctic Cooler (cheap) and you've got a stable o/c'd 9800XT

Jammer

yeah...i did that to my 9800Pro...and the 5900xt overclocked it still as good/better on the standard cooler! the 5900xt just doesnt stop when u keep throwing more mhz at it!

mang87

fidel wrote:

5900 is lot better, especially for doom 3, does urs have VIVO?

What crack have you been smoking??:eek:

Err, sorry, but as I recall the 9800 series from radeon beats the holy hell out of the 5900 series from nVidia, well in direct-x 9 tests anywy. Unless things have change since I last looked.

But the way it goes is:
the 9800XT and the 5900U(which was replaced by the 5950U) were usualy benched against each other. As they are closer to each others performance. The 9800 won
The 9800Pro was pitched against the 5900, and the 9800 won...

the 9800Pro far out performs the 5900, especialy the 5900XT

Unless the nVidias have been tweaked since. but as far as I recall the radeons won that round by far.

grimloch

i started a thread on this a while back and dot back a resounding thumbs to the 9800pro. people who have both cards say the 9800pro is better

astrofool

i think he's more worried about ATI's linux support tbh, cos head to head its not really a contest in windows.

Jammer

i have a 9800 Pro, and my brother has a 5900XT. Theres no difference, his benchmarks better then mine most of the time. His overclocks passed my scores!

The core on the 5900XT is 390/700, it overclocked to 458/850 everyday use

http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=1014623346 ...theres aquamark of it at 518 / 956

It beats my 9800Pro...even when i overclock my 9800Pro to the hills!

I also had to get artic cooler for mine to get it up, the stock cooler does the above on the 5900XT

Matt Simis

mang87 wrote:

What crack have you been smoking??:eek:


the 9800Pro far out performs the 5900, especialy the 5900XT

Unless the nVidias have been tweaked since. but as far as I recall the radeons won that round by far.

Generally Id go for the 9800pro given these two choices as well, but:

a) Nvidia have better Linux support
b) The 5900XT was a "share grabbing" chip from nVidia. Its virtually the same chip as the 5950 Ultra. The boards major difference is one has 128MB and the other 256MB (of slightly faster ram). The 5900XT is a renowned overclocker, as its essentially an "underclocked" 5950 to begin with.

With those two in mind, its more a 55/45 choice in nVs favour, unless you plan on a lot of DX9 gaming..


Matt

Col_Loki

I found a 128MB Leadtek A400LE 6800LE TV/DVI Bulk for 218.99 EUR on
http://www.jes.de/ does anyone know the main difference with this compared to the XFX GeForce 6800 Extreme Gamers Edition 128MB DDR TV-Out/Dual DVI thats on http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acata...Force_6800.html for 285.365 EUR with delivery

The 6800LE is a chopped down version of the 6800.......... its sorta like the SE with the ATI cards.

grimloch

if the 5700LE is anything to go by id stay away from them TBH

Ciaran500

http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?cat=grfx&id=325&pagenumber=1

jesus_thats_gre

Matt Simis wrote:

Generally Id go for the 9800pro given these two choices as well, but:

a) Nvidia have better Linux support
b) The 5900XT was a "share grabbing" chip from nVidia. Its virtually the same chip as the 5950 Ultra. The boards major difference is one has 128MB and the other 256MB (of slightly faster ram). The 5900XT is a renowned overclocker, as its essentially an "underclocked" 5950 to begin with.

With those two in mind, its more a 55/45 choice in nVs favour, unless you plan on a lot of DX9 gaming..


Matt

The linux support if only relevent if you actually use Linux..

Secondly, the vast majority of new games coming out are DX9, so you are automatically cripled if you are playing anything other than a game that uses the Doom 3 engine or some other OpenGL game. Basically feck all.. In more cases than not, the 9800 Pro will outperform it, especially if you pick up a decent one and OC the balls out of it..

So if you play loads of games and do not use Linux, get the 9800 Pro. If you only play Doom3/OpenGL games and use Linux, get the Nvidea..

hmmm..

Jammer

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

The linux support if only relevent if you actually use Linux..

Chad Ghoster wrote:

i went for the geforce orginally because i didnt think the radeon had much support on linux, but now after reading reviews the geforce is mostly compared to the 9600XT...

I think he WANTS linux support.

Matt Simis

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

So if you play loads of games and do not use Linux, get the 9800 Pro. If you only play Doom3/OpenGL games and use Linux, get the Nvidea..

hmmm..

So you agree with me then?


Matt

jesus_thats_gre

I do wish I read all the posts first

Chad ghostal

Ciaran500 wrote:

http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?cat=grfx&id=325&pagenumber=1

would it be fair to say that the 6800le performs at least as well as the 9800pro at stock? /
seems that way from the benchmarks..

seems like a healthy enough card, and it oc's to peform at least as well as the 6800..

anyone any ideas/?/


p.s. sorry to drag on this thread, komplett still havent cancelled my first order so i have time to keep browsing..

Ciaran500

I don't think the 6800LE can be overclocked enough to be a 6800 as it only has 8 pipelines compared to the 12 of the 6800.

wataru

This maybe a dumb question but does anyone know the difference between the Full retail and lite 9800 pro, is it just the games and stuff? And do you get the coo sapphire overclocking software thing, speaking of overclocking anyone got any other good sites besdies over clockers for stable up clockin of the 9800...
thanx in advance guys

Oh and is this card wasted on a P4 northwood 2.4g?

Col_Loki

The lite just doesent have any games, other than that its the same card as retail.

Overclocking a graphics card isint all that hard, www.overclockers.com is a great place to start. If your getting the 9800pro think about an artic cooler for €10 extra and mabye flashing to a 9800XT (only if its an R360 core, which you will see when you remove the heatsink). PS there €185 on www.jes.de for this week.

Which chip is it, big difference between 2.4C and 2.4 (there are 4 types, 2.4A - 533mhz FSB prescott, 2.4 - 400mhz FSB northwood, 2.4B - 533mhz Northwood, 2.4C - 800mhz Northwood ....... and then celerons )?

wataru

Thanx for advice Loki...
what the deal with the XT?

CPU stuff:
Intel Pentium 4 (Northwood 0,13 Micron) SL6PM 2.4 GHz 400 MHz
Cache 512 K
Socket µPGA 478
Stepping core D1

so i guess the fsb on mine is the lowest of the ones you listed eh?

Col_Loki

Basically the 9800XT's are made using the R360 Core. The 9800pro's are now being shipped with them (possibly due to not selling enough XT's) which means you basically have a 128mb XT.

The XT card has extra features over the Pro and so flashing the card unlocks them. You would want to make sure your card overclocks to atleast that level beforehand and you will be fine. The addition of the Artic cooler means temps will be nice and low when compared to the stock cooler (also quieter).

The 9800pro would be better matched with the 800mhz FSB 2.4C or a faster CPU but it will still help alot in games, and is a good card to bring forward to your next upgrade......

hopeful

wataru wrote:

speaking of overclocking anyone got any other good sites besdies over clockers for stable up clockin of the 9800...

http://www.guru3d.com/


http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/index.php?

wataru

Does anyone know if its practically guaranteed to get a R360 core in a Radeon 9800 pro, cos I have been on a hell of a lot of sites and they all kinda have mixed ideas on this, is this something i should loose sleep over cos i kinda feel like i would.... anyone bought one of komplett and got the r360?

*sigh* :rolleyes:

Col_Loki

Most people who have bought from jes computers and got the MSI or the Sapphire have gotten the R360 Core. I have no clue about komplett or wheather there all shipping with the core.

It is an advantage (a nice one) if you get the R360 core but the R350 Core still overclocks pretty well. Its a chance either way..... might be lucky, might not be and that goes for overclocking aswell. Remember its free performance!!

Khannie

I recently bought a 9800pro off ebay. It was a 350 core. I stuck an arctic cooler on it and got the core up to 420MHz <edit> I got artifacts at around 435 using ATItool </edit>. 360 cores can go beyond that with the arctic cooler, but I wouldn't be overly bothered about it. The 350 core ones still run great.

lifebook

Hi Guys,

I actually have both.

When both are compared the 9800 won on HL2 on FPS. (cl_showfps 1)

9800 = 46fps
5900 = 42fps

BUT .....BIG BUT.
When I updated the drivers on the 5900, it didnt smoke the 9800 which is an XT but it did pull away clearly to a nice 54 fps, WITHOUT overclocking. I would iomagine that there would be another few framer in the 5900 if I OCed the thing but no real need.

On DOOM 3 the nvidia wins in every way.

Just my opinion but a fair comparison

TacT

In your case, wanting linux support -- nvidia or bust

savemejebus

What about a 6600GT, as middleground between a 9800 pro and 6800, with linux support?

Nukem

Sorry a bit busy - cat among the pigeons here; what about the or a 6600gt,6800 nu - would check Jes as well,good prices at the mo.

Leadtek (best AGP 6600gt) for 200euro

Chad ghostal

Thanks for the suggestions lads, i bought the 9800 pro back in august,
im very happy with it at the mo

Nukem

Chad ghostal wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions lads, i bought the 9800 pro back in august,
im very happy with it at the mo

Thats fookin beautiful - i didnt even check the dates just answered i was so busy LOL - thanx in a good mood now.:D

Tusky

How does the 9600 XT 256 mb compare to 9800 pro 128 mb ?

vishal

when people say linux support what do they mean. ati do have drivers that run in linux don't they? they may not be good enough for gaming but you are not realistically going to be doing that in linux.

TheDoc

Get the radeon 9800 pro. Runs counter strike at 500 fps and source at 300 fps. I'm in the same boat and im getting the 9800 pro. My mates in american clan are computer experts, they write the articles you read etc, they say the 9800 pro is THE BEST card of its type and anyone who says different is a lier and knows nothing about computers.

TBh you should never overclock because the instant you do your warranty goes into the bin.Overclock when your warranty expires, if u break it and you clocked the company have no obligation to fix it.

Woden

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

Get the radeon 9800 pro. Runs counter strike at 500 fps and source at 300 fps. I'm in the same boat and im getting the 9800 pro. My mates in american clan are computer experts, they write the articles you read etc, they say the 9800 pro is THE BEST card of its type and anyone who says different is a lier and knows nothing about computers.

TBh you should never overclock because the instant you do your warranty goes into the bin.Overclock when your warranty expires, if u break it and you clocked the company have no obligation to fix it.

eh while the 9800pro is a very good card it will not push those type of frame rates in sourc. i have one and the source stress test does well to come out at 100 fps. i've also stopped recommending the 9800pro as the card of choice to people atm for the same price point there are better cards on the market namely the 6600GT.

tusky the 128mb 9800pro would be the way foward instead of the 256mb 9600XT

uberpixie

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

Get the radeon 9800 pro. Runs counter strike at 500 fps and source at 300 fps. I'm in the same boat and im getting the 9800 pro. My mates in american clan are computer experts, they write the articles you read etc, they say the 9800 pro is THE BEST card of its type and anyone who says different is a lier and knows nothing about computers.

TBh you should never overclock because the instant you do your warranty goes into the bin.Overclock when your warranty expires, if u break it and you clocked the company have no obligation to fix it.

"NVIDIA's former top-of-the-line GeForce 5950 Ultra exhibits clear performance deficits, especially for the latest games, such as Farcry and Doom 3. For this reason, NVIDIA sorely needed the GeForce 6600 GT AGP. We found that the new card performs quite well. At the same time, we were surprised to note that the discontinued Radeon 9800 Pro - available today in the same midrange $199 - $249 price region - holds its own against the 6600 GT AGP very well in some categories. But although it is nearly as fast or even slightly faster in some games, the Radeon 9800 Pro can't keep up with the 6600 GT AGP in most areas. Perhaps ATI will decide to follow suit and launch a Radeon X700 XT with AGP."

Taken from a tomshardware review of the 6600gt agp.
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041119/index.html


In all honesty the 6600gt is a better value card than the 9800 pro as data and many other people would say. Just look at the benchies.

popey21

Nukem wrote:

Sorry a bit busy - cat among the pigeons here; what about the or a 6600gt,6800 nu - would check Jes as well,good prices at the mo.

Leadtek (best AGP 6600gt) for 200euro

how do you know the Leadtek is the best one

Nukem

popey21 wrote:

how do you know the Leadtek is the best one

Oooopssss been so long i forgot - it was a PCI-E report i read mixed them up
Had to do some digging for th PCI-E one here at Anandtech
The AGP one at TechReport - apologies