nooooooo..i think

ViperVenoM

just checked some forums about K8N neo motherboards..people saying they cant get the backing plate off ...ive got a platinum but havent plucked up the courage to venture into the anti-static bag yet...

anyone here got a K8N neo platinum with the backplate off ..coz ive just paid £37 for a zalman 7000b rather heavy/nice/large cooler..which im led to believe needs this new backplate on that you get with the box...and im er...bricking it :eek:

Ciaran500

Just open it and find out, then send it back. If you can.

Jammer

You wont believe this but i'll tell u anyway.

My brother took mine off with a lighter.

Use a hairdryer to melt the glue (i freaked at him when he said he had used a lighter!!)

Just get someone to blow hot air at the steel thing, then use the screws on the other side to push it through. It comes off easily, so dont be worrying! DO NOT try take it off with a knife by prying it...u'll break the lines in the mainboard!

stevenmu

Jammer wrote:

Use a hairdryer to melt the glue

Probably a very BAD idea, hair dryers can generate lots of static, most motherboards aren't as sensitive to static as some people think, but sometimes they can get foobared pretty easily. If you really really have to melt some glue (and I'm not resposible if you do) try to use a soldering iron at a very low setting, possibly even using a seperate bit of metal to conduct the heat to the glue. If I'd a choice of hairdryer or lighter I'd go with the lighter to be honest

Jammer

I never really thought of that, or noticed hairdryer's static qualities. I also thought the friction between hairbrush and hair was what caused the static in that kind of situation! Lighter all the way so...

It didn't do any damage to my board, it still works perfect. I just read on the MSI forum people used hairdryers!

Ciaran500

I've always been told to use a hairdryer when I have to melt glue/thermal paste of components and I've never had problems afterwards.

ShiverinEskimo

If you have someone else using the hairdryer then it will be fine because the static will go through them quicker than the hot air. If you were holiding the hairdryer and the mobo it could feck it up.

If you worried about using a hairdryer, a nice warm desklight will give you an adjustable heat source. (the closer the hotter) and it gives the added bonus of being able to see exactly when its melted because of all that extra light...

stevenmu

I think it is something to do with the friction of the air causing the static, but I think it's the air itself gets the charge in the hairdryer and then transfers it to your hair/motherboard. I suppose if people are recommending it often then it must be safe, the desk light actually sound like the best to me though

ViperVenoM

bah been busy all day..finally got round to some spare time for me..time to go see what sort of trouble its gonna be to get off, ive spent £40 on a cooler..and £80 on what i believe to be 1 of the best s754 motherboards out so far..im not gonna let a bit of metal stop me!!!

ill post again in 10min in tears when i cant move it...

Jammer

it comes off handy!! heat up the metal plate to melt glue, then push the screw things on near the cpu socket. its a 30second job!

-oRnein9-

Sorry whats this plate that you's are on about?, I installed this board during the week and have been runnning the machine ever since and I never noticed a plate, does it cause a problem if it is not removed?
Thanks
Richy

Jammer

its on the back of the motherboard. You wont have noticed it unless your HSF didnt sit on the stock bracket. Nothing to worry about!

Col_Loki

Hey Jammer, hows the overclock going with watercooling?

Did you change the HT to 3x yea?

Jammer

I am on 2530 now (230 x 11)..at 1.65v...44degrees load. The HT is still at 4x. Ran prime95 for a few hours and its grand, might crank it up a bit more. Any idea of the rough speed these chips stop at?

Col_Loki

I am on 2530 now (230 x 11)..at 1.65v...44degrees load. The HT is still at 4x. Ran prime95 for a few hours and its grand, might crank it up a bit more. Any idea of the rough speed these chips stop at

Put the HT at 3x, it wont effect your system performance (its not like FSB)....... this should let you go higher.

TBH id be aiming at 2.7ghz with that chip, your doing pretty well so far and the temps are nice and low. Try 3x HT vs 4x HT benchmarks and see if theres any difference......

ViperVenoM

help help help help!

got the stupid backplate off with a heatlamp..took about 2 min then it came off easyyy...got the new 1 in..zalman on..all looking good, wired everything else up...reinstalled windows

and err..checked bios...cpu temp 61 :eek: ..system ..41 :eek: ..and this is with the window panel off! in exactly the same case and fan set up i had with my 2500 set up....where my system was 25....is the probes b0rked or something ..i feel a bit uneasy with my cpu temp at 63..but the heatsinks on! it doesnt move screwed in tightly got the thermal grease on i got with the heatsink..the fan spins!...the board is not hot to touch, the heatsink gets a little hot when u touch nearer the bottom so they must be touching...but its not 63 degrees hot..i mean wtf! everythings at stock..im not pushing anything (cant wait to start on the ram too ) till i know what the hell is wrong here...63 cannot be right!

anyone else had this sort of problem??

Col_Loki

Try flashing the BIOS to the newest available, there is a known problem with the MSI mis-reporting temps.......... a flash normally sorts it out!!

Temps should be ~40's idle and under 50 full load on stock with a decent heatsink like that .

ViperVenoM

flashing the bios...hmm never done a proper flash before the only thing ive ever done is do something through windows with my video card updating the bios..i think 1 of the many utilities i got with me motherboard mentioned bios updates...ill see what it does

ViperVenoM

bios flashed successfully \o/

now core center is recording 46-47 for cpu and 41 for system :eek:

ok the cpu may not be too far off now..systems still a little high though?

ive updated to the latest version...1.30...and coz i dont have a floppy drive in..i couldnt create a back up..quite a scary 20 seconds that was

..does 46..sound right..or still a little high..i know Col_Loki you said i should be at ~40's idle..but isnt that a bit high, for the size of the monster hes got strapped on him?

i mean i dont know..do a64s run hotter than xps?

*edit*
hold up...

it says fan speed 1748rpm...err i thought if the zalman was plugged straight into the motherboard..it was full speed...which ive done (ive pulled my hardcano thing out for now...too many wires :mad: ) but it said 2500 before....argh..i dont know what to believe!!

ViperVenoM

lol?

cpu - 43

system - 46

ok somebodys lying!

oh now my fan speed is 1300rpm..thats not even an option

this is quite annoying how the hell am i suppose to know how hot it is to see if it would overclock or anything when i cant even get a decent reading at stock

Col_Loki

Do you have any case air flow at all? And what way is is setup? As you can imagine that Zalman due to its size will benifit alot from it.

The Zalman seems to be running silent mode, the more you turn it up the better the cooling (i know i know obviously) ....... so theres more room for better temps there.

Did you use thermal compound or the stuff supplied?

I wouldnt mind the system temp much TBH, once you have a bit of air flowing through the case . Some of the AMD64's are known for reporting high case temps.

The CPU temp seems to be comming down to normal which is good, also it takes a bit of time for the compound to settle in....... when it does that should help a little.

ViperVenoM

well

ive got an 92mm fan front ..back..1 on the side window (other 1 has broke..ill get that replaced) and an 80mm at the top of the case

thing is..this is exactly how it was set up with the xp set up (same case and everything) and that never evvverrr went past 30 degrees system...i dont know what it means as "system" but ive got the door open and ive stuck my hand in anddd i wouldnt even class the inside as "warm" its a little warmer than outside the case but...no way is it 47..thats just stupid as for the zalman i may try plugging the little..speed adjuster in and putting it full to see if the core center says anything differents gone from 900rpm..to 3000rpm..im lost neither of them are even..mentioned by what the fan does

oh and i used "thermal grease" not sure what sort tiny little white tube that came with the heatsink..got it quite evenly spread imo....well..i think :rolleyes:

-oRnein9-

I have the exact same board fan and processor as you i put it together during the week and core center is reporting around the same temps as you.
processor: 40-43 idle, around 46 or 47 when playing games and about 52 under full load. But I downloaded motherboard monitor and it is reporting the cpu temp 3degree's below core centre so who do I believe. Both core centre and mobo monitor are reporting the same case temps roughly 45 degrees. I am a little disappointed atm since I spent 35euro on the bugger and was hoping to maybe oc a bit but its not looking too good with these temps. I will try the AMD heatsink/fan that came with the cpu and post again.
P.S I am also using the same compound that came in a little white tube
Richy

ViperVenoM

ill try that monitor...but im sorry i dont believe the system temps..i dont believe anything this core centre is saying...
my fan speed is all over...and ive never ever had a pc with system temps over 40..and this is the most cooled system ive had...so ..well i dont know im gonna try another monitor

i wanted to overclock some too..got some geil ram which is meant to be pretty good at overclocking and i wanna see what they can do!!!

Col_Loki

That stuff Zalman provide isint great, AS5 would be much better and would help temps a good bit.

Your case airflow is pretty decent, try to have air blowing in from the front and out at the rear. Ignore the case temp , as with quite a few AMD64 boards it is way too high to be real....... your fine just ignore it.

You still have room for overclocking, keep it under 60'C . Also bear in mind that ye have one of the faster chips (3400+) and thus temps will be a little higher than say the 3000+ ........

ViperVenoM

hmm well

im gonna do some benchies first and record some results, then go about overclocking this little thing, what do you think would be my best bet to get a decent boost out of it, ive got some geil ram ere waiting to be pushed! shall i just up the fsb..or do i want to be messing around with the htt..which i dont even understand

btw i dont know if i worded that wrong but i do have air blowing in from the front..and 1 out the rear

i just have 1 on the side window and 1 at the top of the case too (1 more on the window when i get another fan :rolleyes: )

ill try this speed adjuster for the zalman and make sure its in normal mode (according to corecentre its not even on ) so..i guess its down to me to find out ...

Azza

Sounds like a good rig. Should fly for you. I'm getting similar temps on a similar rig. Got the same motherboard cpu and similar zalman heatskin.

-oRnein9-

I thought the htt was the fsb, I could be wrong i have never oc'd before but I have been doing a bit o reading about it, and I also have some decent ram mushkin level one should provide a nice boost, but I'm am more than happy with the way my system is performing atm (at stock) are you viper? I mostly play games and this chip laughs at them.
Richy

ViperVenoM

Azza - i hope so i wanna let this baby go wild on some top end games later

-oRnein9- - to my knowledge the htt has another fsb...different to the main..core thingy u got the 200fsb x 12..and then the htt is summat else...x3 or x4 or something..maybe thats linked with the fsb then...as i know its 800mhz htt..and 200fsb x4 would be 800..im not sure tbh
oh and..which viper? i dont know who you mean..which probably means no im not

anyways just gonna run 3dmark01 now..at stock.. vid card will be at 439 core and 754 ram..mem and cpu at stock

3dmark03 is gonna have to wait till im watching a film coz its downloading at 29kb/s

anyways hereee we go!


*update* 20381 and according to corecentre my temps havent moved 1 degree..i dont know if thats a good thing..or whether i should just ignore it :rolleyes:

wellll according to mbm 5 ...system is 45/46 (god knows)...and the cpu is 39....ok now im confused but i have some business to take care of first before a night of overclocking awaits!

Col_Loki

shall i just up the fsb..or do i want to be messing around with the htt..which i dont even understand

lol, yea the HT is a little different to FSB ,since the memory controller is on the CPU's die there technically isint any FSB - but ignore this, for overclocking you can pretty much think of it the same as FSB.

There is also the HTT multiplier , basically changing it from 4 to 3 will allow you to overclock further while it has very little (if any) impact on your computers performance.

Sounds like a good rig. Should fly for you. I'm getting similar temps on a similar rig. Got the same motherboard cpu and similar zalman heatskin.

Yea there pretty damm good rigs,wish i had one........ stupid XP......... :rolleyes:

and I also have some decent ram mushkin level one should provide a nice boost

Yea ye both have good memory. The Mushkin should work out very well for your system, winbond CH chips should do a pretty decent FSB(u know what i mean )with nice tight timings..... dont be afraid to give it some voltage either. The memory should hold pretty well up to 230mhz ish which would put your CPU over 2.5ghz........ nicely matched !!

*update* 20381 and according to corecentre my temps havent moved 1 degree..i dont know if thats a good thing..or whether i should just ignore it

Must be nice to break 20k, pretty solid system........(much better than hovering round the 17k mark eh?)

wellll according to mbm 5 ...system is 45/46 (god knows)...and the cpu is 39....ok now im confused but i have some business to take care of first before a night of overclocking awaits!

Ignore the case temp, it will possibly be sorted out in a future BIOS revision. CPU @ 39 looks good, nothin to worry about there.

VeVeX

my bros (Jammer) A64 has watercooling, 2 x 120mm fans @ 7v and it still says 46degrees for system temp. Its on an MSI K8n Neo too.

ViperVenoM

ahhh christ well i think water coolings a little better than my tiny Zalman
screw the system temp..ill just take an average of mbm5 and corecentre..giving my cpu a temp of...40-41 sounds nice coz its no louder than my last heatsink on low

Col_Loki - ill change the htt mulitplier first..to 3..run a few benchies see if anything changes..then ill start uping the fsb

my memory has a life time warranty up to 2.95v..even though i think 2.7-8 is about as far as i want it...do you think i should try changin the timings (2.5-4-4-8) and just go for the fsb?

and yep it feels great to break that damn 20k barrier watch out 21k!!..id like to break 7k on 03 but i think im gonna have to OC me card a bit more for that...just well im gonna be damn careful with this chip my barton cost me £60 back in the day...when they was unlocked and i didnt really care about that i tried uping the Vcore and the fsb and the multipliers..hell it was only £60....£203 on the other hand...
:eek:

ViperVenoM

im not having much luck in this bios...ive found the cpu fsb.. and the htt..nothing for ram well not the fsb..so i guess when i changed the cpu it changed the ram too?

dunno wot happened though but i just changed it to 220 and htt to 3...to see what would happen..i got some sort of disk error..it said..had to restart and reset it in bios...eh?!

anyways ive up the fsb to 209 at the moment..gives me 2507mhz...see if this makes any difference...

20459 and the temps got to about 46-47 ...which i guess isnt too bad under load but for another 100mhz i expected a bit more than 100 points i thought AMD's didnt overclock much but you blaaady noticed it when u did

Azza

The only thing different in my rig compared to yours is the memory. In 3D Mark 2001 I got 20,900 stock or there abouts and overclocked I got about 22,660 but I reckon I can get over 23,000 with a few tweaks I have done since then but when I throw any sort of voltage at it the temp goes to 59+.

I got around 7,356 3d marks 2003. I reckon I could add another 300 to that. I say that because after the same few tweaks my stock went from 6669 to 6996 in that test. However I can't overclock as well as I use to as my raid setup won't be detected.

You will find your default driver with the asus card gives the highest mark. But I'm not sure as I'm getting really high marks with catalyst 4.8

When overclocking mark sure spread spectrum is disable.
Your Hyper Transport speed is locked at your fsb speed but that board should take a ht overclock up to 1000mhz.

Try tighting your ram timings as well.
My scores where a combination of overclock ram cpu and graphics card. I got my core of my graphics card insanely high.

Jammer

i got 21 thousand something when i had my CPU at 2530 and GFX card at 440/390! You guys should be wiping the floor with me overclocked wise.

When your over clocking, change the AGP setting from 66 to 68 to activate the AGP/PCI/SATA lock. And dont use core centre to overclock, the bios is more trust worthy!

ViperVenoM

i think summat must have happened with my pc during 3dmark at stock the first test the planes..i got about 1200more frames..the rest was worse!

ended up at 6703 or..summat

Azza wot do u mean by tweaks..just overclocking?

and whats insanely high??..mines 444 now and stable i know its only 32 increase..but im getting there!

ill try bumping up the mem voltage to 2.75 maybe and see how tight i can get the timings...Azza what do you have ur ram/vid/cpu at im curious as to how far i am off them?

and Jammer...agp setting to 68 isnt going to damage anything is it..i get touchy at my vid card ..if this dies im condemned to a 9600pro which i find crap now ive got this card

Giblet

Hehe, I have the backplate removal task ahead of me tomorrow, not looking forward to it. Have heatsink on now, but not using Zalman nipples. It's running hot, thought it might be misreporting, but there are some artifacts and general crashery.

Oh, anyone know why 2xsticks 512 Corsair XMS won't boot, but either stick on its own will ???

Jammer

Dunno Giblet, i have same RAM and it works!

No, it wont damage anything Viper. Its all good.

I get better then u in 3dmark03 too, i get 7236 or something like that....what drivers are u using?

ViperVenoM

cat 4.8's Jammer

btw the backplate removal is easier than i expected, you know them heatlamps u get for bad backs and stuff my dads got 1..so we used that ..bout 2 min later it came off by hand..its not tooo bad

..what do you mean your not using zalman nipples..how else have u mounted the zalman..or something youve done urself? ..you say its hot, if you got that off corecentre id ignore that mine was reporting 63-69 :eek: ..i updated the bios ...43..bit better, got mbm 5..thats saying 39-40, and i still dont know if my zalman fan is top speed, ive just plugged it directly into motherboard, im gonna attach the speed adjuster myself and see if its any better...

as for the ram, do u have them in slot 1 and 3..otherwise i dont believe they work...2 ddrs have to go in 1 and 3...thats what i read..ive got mine in 1 and 3 and its booting no problems...

3am now cant be bothered to tweak..gonna break the 7k 3dmark03 barrier tomorrow..i seem to be getting screwed out of a few points :rolleyes:

Azza

When I got these scores I was running cat 4.7
Fresh install clock speed at 2.45 ghz memory was running at 490 mhz default timings for the ocz stuff 3.0-2-3-10 I think not sure. Helps I can throw lots of voltage at that probably take 3.0v
Anyway I flashed the bios of asus card got the core stable at 470mhz would of gone higher two but the memory only went up about 10-15mhz. I can't remember what I set hypertansport too.
But using cat 4.8 I seem to up about 200 marks in 3D Mark 2003 and 500 in 3D Mark 2001. I could of tighten timings so there was more potentail for me to overclock.
Of course you have an advantage I never bothered using the back plate that came with my zalman I just used the default one so I think I'm getting slightly higher temps. You should be able to check your zalman speed in the bios. I used bios 1.2 to overclock.


3d Mark 2001 22,660
3D Mark 2003 7,342

Giblet

I have the two long screws from the rentention bracket screwed into the normal backplate. It works and it is secure, I don't know 100% if this is causing artifacts and general crapness.

Could be the 6800 graphics card but that isn't overheating.

Oh and I have tried every way possible to install the RAM. Weird how only one works at a time, It has to be something stupid. The prospect of RMA'ing isn't looking fun.

ViperVenoM

thats a bit odd with the ram ...strange other people are using 2 sticks of the same stuff and its working but yours isnt dont like RMA'ing things myself..

i didnt even know you could mount the bugger any other way but ah well..mines on now...now my temps are completely different for today! 51 - cpu 39 - case...i dont believe either of them tbh :mad: getting annoying this

gonna plug the zalman fan speed connector in, in a mo and get that cranked to full..if it isnt already im not sure i know something from my pc is making a sound...it could be the zalman on full because when i was turning it on and powering it up 1 fan at a time the rest didnt make a sound, and i dont think a 19dB psu is the problem either, but we shall see

470mhz core :eek: thats on stock cooling?! ..well this ram is under warranty up to 2.95v dunno how high "Safe" is though , but you mean u had your ram at ..245 then, so how was that in the multiplier ..x10? or have you done something else....


hmm gonna go connect this fan speed up and play in the bios..i want over 7k in 3dmark03!

Giblet

The bios was the problem with the temps, so my way of installing worked out ok. 40c its at now

Ram still not working, gonna look around at a few websites to see if there are any similar probs.

ViperVenoM

gah i had bios 1.1....was reporting 63 cpu and 47 system..flashed to 1.3...restarted...39 cpu hell yeah! ..more like it..cold boot again this morning...63 again..sigh

desperately looking round msi and amd forums..people dont know whos to blame ...but whoever it is i wish they would sort it out..im gonna reboot now and i bet im in the 40's again...

mbm5 says 40 now!!!..no 42...god stop moving! i think its wrong anyway i turn up my exhaust fan to like...3500rpm sounds like a wind turbine..and the temp goes up!!!

this is most frustrating..time to hit some forums :rolleyes:

astrofool

does it really matter what temp its reporting if it's working properly ? (i.e. not crashing)

ViperVenoM

no but i intend to overclock and id be much happier if i knew where i stood with temps so i know how high i could take it safely when its reporting 64 degrees @ idle @ stock even though i know its wrong i wont want to overclock it "just in case"

41 now..if i knew it was 41 i could safely overclock it to....say it never got past 60 under load..which i would call "safe"..or a damn site safer than 64 idel :rolleyes:

ViperVenoM

<--fridding idiot

i know how ill get to the bottom of this, ive got a hardcano 11 ere that i took out and never put back in..ill wire it all up again and stick 1 of the thermal probes right at the bottom of the zalman..i presume it will be a damn site more accurate than this crap

yes its stable...yes i know its lying..but you know..i just feel a little uncomfortable at these temps anyway...now if these probes report the same..then ill cry