Nuclear, the Green energy of the future?

Typedef

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.09/china.html?tw=wn_tophead_7

https://www.pbmr.com/2_about_the_pbmr/2_3how_it_works.htm

According to the two linked articles. China is planning to have 30 pebble bed Nuclear reactors built by 2020. Moreover, by 2050, China expects to consume 350 gigawatts of electricity per anum, which constrasts to the 300 gigawatts produced world wide this year !

Hydrogen, extracted from methanol, where the methanol is derived from cash crops like potato or barley is certainly the other big contender for energy generation in the near future. That said... objectively speaking Hydrogen is a very immature technology and it may never meet our requirements for energy generation. Hopefully that is not the case.

I wonder how people would feel about relying on these Pebble Bed reactors?

Up until recently it was really only so called "renegade" nations who were exploring building Nuclear reactors, South Africa and North Korea. South Africa was looking specifically at the "Pebble Bed" alternative.

Fun facts about Pebble Bed reactors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_reactor

When a pebble-bed reactor gets hotter, the more rapid movement of the molecules causes the uranium nuclei to have a wider range of speeds relative to the neutrons. This means that they are less likely to interact and fission. This reduces the reactor's criticality. This effect is called "doppler broadening".

The reactor is cooled by an inert, fireproof gas, so it cannot have a steam explosion as a light-water reactor can.

A pebble-bed reactor thus can have all of its supporting machinery fail, and the reactor will not crack, melt, explode or spew hazardous wastes. It simply goes up to a designed "idle" temperature, and stays there. In that state, reactor vessel radiates heat, but the vessel and fuel spheres remain intact and undamaged. The machinery can be repaired or the fuel can be removed.

These issues are not just theory. This exact test was performed (and filmed!) with the German AVR reactor. All the control rods were removed, and the coolant flow was halted. Afterward, the fuel balls were sampled and examined for damage. There was none.

Of course, you still have to deal with exponentially increased amounts of leathally toxic waste.

Nothing is for free kids.

Personally, I'd like to see the main drive for power creation to come from an effecitent Hydrogen chain. Assuming that can't happen, is a Pebble Bed Nuclear solution, the best 'Green' (no pun) alternative?

Capt'n Midnight

Nuclear power can be safe in use, economic and good for the environment.
Pick one.

If it wern't for the fact that breeder reactors increase the amount of radioactivity and that byproducts decay at a greater rate than uranium you could suggest putting the waste back into the original mine. Except it wouldn't be economic.

Any way we should be trying to conserve power not generate more. Spending several billion on improving thermal insulation in the US (for example) would be cheaper than building more power stations to generate heat to be wasted.

likewise getting a decent transport system for Dublin would cut down a lot on the CO2 and heat emissions.

Typedef

Well point two is certainly unequivocal.

Every September all of a sudden, the single car driver factor reaches lunatic proportions .... of course if Ireland were an enlightened nation, it would have a _fast_ and low cost mass transit infrasturcture, instead of half baked stabs at it, al la Luas and the 70% of Dublin's population who can't pragmatically use it. Or the Dart and the 65% of Dublin's population who can't use it.

Tax incentives on fuel, for example, for people who did car pooling would reduce the traffic and pollution factor.

Sadly, despite the fact Ireland will most likely be 'sanctioned' due to it's complete lack of action to implement the Kyoto protocol, 'sane' measures like tax incentives for car pooling seem _completely_ beyond the ability of politicians to produce here.

All the Minister for the environment seems to need to say is "Oh... it's better then it was before... in the bad old days".. everybody suddenly agrees... and rather then hold the political guys to account, said political hacks get let of the hook, al la "things are better now, then in the famine" mantra.

/rant

mrhappy42

As long as its easier, cheaper and takes less time to get from home to work and back I dont see why public transport will ever work here.

I'll support any initiate that will halt this but have not seen any so far.

Heard interesting feature on the radio saying houses are the biggest poluters as their insulation etc. is inneficient. Hence looking at this new legislation.

On the nuclear front with the cable being layed under the Irish see I dont see why we would build nuclear in Ireland.

Further issues
- I think the word 'green' is negative and has 'red' seepage if you know what I mean. A new word to help create ownership within the industrial sector etc. would help.
- My wife (and others) think its a good idea to 'clean' the house with about two tons of toxic chemicals and all sorts of stuff.

Capt'n Midnight

mrhappy42 wrote:

- I think the word 'green' is negative and has 'red' seepage if you know what I mean. A new word to help create ownership within the industrial sector etc. would help.
- My wife (and others) think its a good idea to 'clean' the house with about two tons of toxic chemicals and all sorts of stuff.

Not sure what you mean there - but you wouldn't be allowed to use many household chemicals in industry because of health & safety. And many procducts on sale in supermarkets would carry hazard symbols if bought from a laboratory supplier or shipped in bulk amounts.

Oddly enough bleach is one of the most biodegradable substances - sodium hypochlorite breaks down to ordinary salt.

mrhappy42

the chemicals I was not talking industrial but things like loo freshners, softners, toilet ducks, sprays, air freshners etc.... Maybe its just me but I think that the number of gimicky chemicals is on the increase.

But add bleach to acids before it breaks down and you got some nice gas and not so pure NaCl ...i.e toilet cleaners and bleach. Seeing that all these are in the same sewer I wonder how much these things break down before they react with other chemicals.

Also very few people use pure 5% bleach they tend to use all coloured stuff...back to gimick discussion.