physics or chemistry..

doonothing

well, im heading on the journey of the LC so, im just asking your opinions.
i like science and am considering it for a career, but i cant decide between physics and chemistry.
this isnt just in relation to my school life, im enuiring as to everyones opinions on these subjects in general
which is more interesting?
which will give me more benefits in later life, or has benifitted you on your academic career?
im just looking for a little bit of advice, and hopefully, this is the place to get it...

ecksor

Can you not do both for Leaving Certificate or do you mean for 3rd level? You could investigate the various science degree options and see if any look like they'll give you enough flexibility to try both and either keep both on or choose to concentrate on one or the other in later years.

John

Chemistry as a degree seems to me to be most in demand. I'd recommend doing both for the leaving and seeing which you like best. Or if you can't do both, borrow textbooks from someone and see which you like the look of more.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

ApeXaviour

First off there is no "better subject" IMO. It's really about finding out what's best for you. Nevertheless it's a good topic to have raised, cudos.

I did both phys and chem (both new courses at the time) for the LC and I have to say I enjoyed them both equally. Got an A2 in both and went on to study them both for my first two years in college. If you like the physical sciences, have an aptitude in them and are seriously thinking of pursuing them after school then I highly recommend you do them both for your LC. Having two lab subjects seriously helps for CAO matriculation purposes. Plus the subjects complement eachother greatly.
I'm now going into third year and am on the verge where I have to choose what subject I wish to specialise in.. I've chosen physics, why? Because "I" find it far more interesting and challenging.

Conversely a friend of mine who did only phys in school but went on to do the same course & subjects as me has now opted to do a phys/chem mix subject (advanced material science).

Since you're thinking post-school then you should probably know that physics is the most difficult of the science subjects to catch up on if you haven't studied it before, then chem, then biology. It has to do with the building up nature of the subject, most of what you learn is built on previous foundations. It's similar with chem but less so.. So if you consider this important then physics might be the more logical choice for you (assuming you can only pick one?).

Another thing, while chem involves some maths and a healthy problem solving ability, physics requires it moreso.

I wish you the best of luck in your chosen area

Stugots

Similar to the other posters - I did both in the leaving cert. Liked both but Physics is definitely more difficult due to the maths content. I would recommend doing both if at all possible. You may find your preference is different than at first appearance when you get into it. If you are considering doing engineering in college, then physics is probably more important.

If you're interested in a good read on the science subjects in a non-text book manner, try "A Short History of Everything" by Bill Bryson. Its a humerous tour of scientific progress, the characters involved etc.

doonothing

but in my school, chemistry and physics are on the same *list* so i cant do both...
yeah, i get what you mean, but in general, which do the general public generally find more interesting? in general that is.
this isnt just to help me pick, i want to read an interesting debate of the topics. their pros, cons, high points, low point, what made you pick one over the other, why you like them etc..
im just interested to hear your views. in general...

ecksor

I think the general public finds physics more interesting if you look at the attention that people like Stephen Hawking get. I could see personal preference being a lot more important though, the various reactions that you learn about in chemistry are quite fascinating when you think of them in terms of how the world around you works.

I did maths, physics and chemistry and would have done biology also if the timetable had allowed it. If I had had to choose my personal preference would have been to do physics because I was a bit of a physics nut at that age, scouring any books I could get my hands on from encyclopedias to pop-theoretical physics books. In fact, when asked at that age what I wanted to be, I would have replied "physicist". I have come to realise though that I just like thinking about interesting concepts, so I went towards mathematics instead. Did first year physics in college though and while the lectures were good the experiments bored the bejesus out of me ... I think I've forgotten most of it now.

ApeXaviour

doonothing wrote:

but in my school, chemistry and physics are on the same *list* so i cant do both...
yeah, i get what you mean, but in general, which do the general public generally find more interesting? in general that is.
this isnt just to help me pick, i want to read an interesting debate of the topics. their pros, cons, high points, low point, what made you pick one over the other, why you like them etc..
im just interested to hear your views. in general...

Haha ok I'll indulge you. IMHO physics is far more interesting because of it's relevancy to the everyday world. Me, I have an inquisitive nature. I'm always asking and wondering, "why the hell does this do that" and "what makes that go!?" or "that looks like magic, but it can't be! How does it work?". Physics makes you look at the world in a very different way. It's difficult to describe.. Ok say when I look at my electric guitar, I don't just see the guitar. I see oscillating strings inducing an emf via the magnetic pickups. Creating an alternating electric current at the EXACT same frequency as the sound waves etc.

This leads excellently onto my next point. You CANNA talk about physics to the unitiated. Exciting as describing and understanding these things are to me, the technical terms required to describe them adequetly (as physicists are nothing if not thorough) would put most people to sleep. Either that or put you at a serious social disadvantage..

Whereas chemistry never really churned me the way physics does. I can't say I've ever found myself looking at a piece of wood and going "oooh what lovely natural organic synthesis went into creating that". Or every saturday night when I like to watch iron rust, I don't usually ponder "hmm I wonder if that is a ligand substitution reaction oooh.. aaahh"..

nesf

I prefer, and went for Physics at theird level but I'll make a few points.

1) There is alot more lab work in chemistry generally, do you enjoy lab work?

2) There is ALOT more theory and maths in any serious theoretical physics course, do you like maths/theory/research?

3) As others have said there is alot of crossover between the two subjects, studying one does not exclude the other, for instance projects i've done have involved physical chemistry.

4) IMO the leap in difficulty from second level to third level education in both subjects are not the same. Physics gets ALOT tougher. You basically need to sit down and ask yourself, am I good at maths. The phyics you'll do for LC is nothing like college level physics. Im my course, there was hardly any english left on my notes from lectures after second year, by third there was none pretty much except for section titles (I did physics at UCC). Alot of friends of mine came to UCC planning on studying physics at third level, but changed to chemisty after fisrt year (you can't do this anymore).

Hope that helps.

rainbow kirby

I did both physics and chemistry at LC, and I loved both of them. I got A1s in both of them... As regards which one you should do, it just depends on what you see yourself doing. As has been said before, it's hard to pick up physics in college. 1st year experimental physics is bad enough without having some kind of foundation. You have to really like maths too if you intend doing physics/engineering in college, and it helps to be mathematical for chemistry too. In first year I did both experimental physics and mathematical physics (one of UCD's wonderful quirks is that physics is really 2 subjects...) and much preferred the mathematical end. I'm (hopefully!) going into 3rd year now and planning on keeping on mathematical physics. I wasn't sorry to say goodbye to labs at the end of first year. Chemists kinda live in their labs...

Civilian_Target

I never really liked Chemistry in Junior Cert, so when I got to LC and Phys and Chem were on the same line, I chose Phys and haven't looked back. That said, now that I'm doing physics the bits that I like the most happen to be the ones bordering on Chemistry, such as nuclear physics.

My recommendation would be, if you like your maths enough to be seriously doing honours maths, do physics. Else, do Chemistry.

The Roach

As everybody's mentioned,it really does come down to personal preference.I also did both physics and chemistry for the LC,and liked both.But when it came to making a choice for college I chose physics.I've just finished my final year and intend to go on and do a post-grad in cosmology.

I think the main reason people study physics is becasue they have an inquisitive nature.Physics will cover how electrons move in a metal,and everything up to how stars are formed,so there'e a lot of material to cover,but also a whole load of different areas that you can specialise in if you do continue after college.

One thing I will say as a recent graduate;there's a HELL of a lot more jobs for chemists than there are for physicists.I've spent all summer looking for a job related to my course,but to no avail.But when I do finish my postgrad I'll be able to move into a highly specialised field and make a career out of a subject I find completely engrossing.If you do choose chemistry in college you'll have your choice of jobs in the pharmacutical sector,so that would be one less thing to worry about.

Anyway,good luck with your choice!

ArthurDent

I always loved chemistry and physics wasn't an option in my school, I went on to do a double honours in Physics and Chemistry in college and would agree that physics is much more difficult to pick up at third level. If you are looking at college courses that have a physics and chemistry components you should probably take physics for the lc, IMO
After graduating I did a PhD in chemistry and worked have worked in the Pharmaceutical industry for the past 11 years. I didn't have much trouble finding good jobs here or abroad. Those who finished my degree with a Physics/Maths or Physics/Chemistry degree and went into the physics area for post grad/work seem to have had a harder time in finding work.

M@lice

Most ppl are saying that physics is harder to pick up in college than chemistry and i'd be inclined to agree after my first year experiances with science students.

If your thinking about a science degree in college don't for get you can do both physics and chemisty when you get to college even if you can't do them both now.

You should consider doing one of the subjects outside of school perhaps. I studied applied maths outside my own school and am very glad i did so consider that if its at all possible.

If i had to pick i'd do physics in school and try to get chemistry outside of school because chemistry is supposed to be an easier subject than physics so you'll want to give more time to physics i'd say and keep chemistry for the weekends perhaps.

I'm studying theoretical physics and maths at the moment in Maynooth. I'm leaning towards maths myself at the moment but i didn't want to give up on physics at the time because some might say its more useful than maths (even tho most physics is impossible without it).

fozzle

Like most of the posters here, I did both Physics and Chemistry in LC. Having seen lots of friends in college pick up one or the other, I would say that Chemistry seems to be the easiest to pick up later. Finances allowing, I think M@lice's idea of doing one in school and one one outside is a good I idea, and don't worry if you can't, as most science courses will let you pick one up in first year.

Really you should try to think if you prefer hands-on labwork, or theoretical calculations, as 3rd level physics tends to be all or mostly theory. That's not to say that you can't stay on the practical end of physics, however. I did Geophysics to 4th year in NUI,G and loved it. It's like physics in action, as you use seismics to study the earth's interior, for mineral and oil exploration, earthquake prediction and all that geology related jazz. It can mean lots of lugging weelbarrows full of computer equipment up mountains in the rain, but if you enjoy it it's worth it.

Maybe you could have a look at the course outlines for both subjects at LC, you might see something you're particuary interested in.

Try talking to both teachers as well, or your old science teacher as they probably have a fair idea of if you show a particular aptitude for one suject over the other.

And good luck! You'll be sick of hearing this after the next two years, but the LC isn't the be all and end all, and there's always a way to change your path in the years to come, or to reach the same goal by a different path.

fenris

Do whichever you fancy for interest sake, but if you are thinking of a career that will allow you to live rather than just survive, go elsewhere !

My wife has a PhD in Chemistry, she is one of the few people that started uni with her that has not had to reskill into I.T. accountancy or engineering.
There is a reason for people not taking these subjects, it has to do with no real prospects for meaningful real world employment apart from jobs lecturing in the above subjects or working in a lab for 22K and no prospects of it ever changing.

There are a large number of graduates out there that would like to go back in time and "meet" their career guidance teacher with a large stick. In fairness taking the advice of a "career guidance" teacher is a bad start, any teacher that did career guidance was usually too useless to do anything else !

ArthurDent

fenris wrote:

My wife has a PhD in Chemistry, she is one of the few people that started uni with her that has not had to reskill into I.T. accountancy or engineering.
There is a reason for people not taking these subjects, it has to do with no real prospects for meaningful real world employment apart from jobs lecturing in the above subjects or working in a lab for 22K and no prospects of it ever changing.
!

That seems pretty harsh to me, the Pharmaceutical industry in Ireland employs over 20,000 people and I'm sure many of those earn a lot more than 22k.

here is the latest report I could find with salary levels
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2002/04/21/story318330.asp

I've worked in the industry for over 10 years in multinationals, small companies, third level and now run my own business and its like everywhere else - you make your own luck, to a large extent. Certainly choosing an area in chemistry that has industrial relevance is a help. Going abroad after graduation to gain broader experience doesn't hurt either. Most of those who did PhDs at the same time as me are doing all right and working in an area aligned to their training.

fenris

General operatives in the pharma industry do not earn much more than 22k, the work is normal repetitive factory stuff with the added bonus of GMP regulation on top while wearing a teletubby suit, there is the joy of watching 20,000 tablets fly past while trying to see the damaged ones, checking to see if the foil is printed properly, wondering which of your workmates will be the next one to ramble off for a toilet break and keep going out the door - staff turnover in most plants is horrific.

19,000 jobs double checking the work of a machine with maybe 1000 managers, most of whom come from engineering or accounting backgrounds with a pink and fluffy sprinkling of "orts" graduates that have fallen into HR or marketing role is much closer to the true picture.

If you want to know which way to go, decide on the lifestyle you want, figure out how much it will costs and skill up accordingly even though it may not be an area that particularly interests you.

Remember "work to live not live to work." If the job can't pay for mortgage and creche without enough left over in terms of cash AND time then it is not worth doing, it is effectivly costing you in terms of money and lifestyle to do that job.

In otherwords don't believe the hype about particular industries, do your own research, statistics about an industry paid for by an industry are worthless, you don't have to decide your whole life direction now, LC is all about getting enough points to take you to the next stage, high point courses reflect current fashion just as surely as strappy sandals and are no more likely to lead to a high quality lifestyle.

dargan

Hi

It's a pity that you can't do both as they definitely compliment each other in the long run. I'd take it up with your school.

However, you have to decide so ask yourself what you like. Chemistry in Ireland is usually thought to mean the pharmaceutical industry, where after your degree/diploma you will go to work in the pharmachem industry (very stable here relative to rest of world). This work is rewarding if you like working in a lab, being creative, problem solving and despite earlier comments about poor salary, I know plenty of people who are earning 25k+ on their first job and rising. For example, Wyeth hire people and pay very handsomely.

Another area of chemistry is materials - hasn't really taken off yet but watch this space. There will be HUGE and I mean HUGE interest in this in the next few years, with places like Intel expanding and hiring. This is high tech well paid work.

Materials overlaps with physics. If you like instrumentation and computation more, I would suggest physics. In both cases, I can't see you being short of a job when you graduate.

Hope that helps a bit

Retr0gamer

In most Sciences courses in 3rd level for the first semester you do the same subjects as the other science students. It is therefore very easy to change courses in the first semester if you want.

I like both subjects but I chose to do Chemistry. Physics is very interesting and I can imagine the jobs are very good. One thing about Chemistry is that the jobs are very boring unless you go on and do research. Most jobs involve sitting at a machine and going through the same routine every day. My work experience in QA (even worse its an office job that requires a Chemistry degree) made me decide I'd rather do research. Currently I just started a PhD research course and I'm finding it really interesting and challenging.

Cute_Button

Having done both I much prefer Chemistry- but then thats because I'm the sort of person who just enjoys their labwork- physics just didn't cut it for me purely on a practical level.

Thats just a personal opinion though- different strokes for different folks, try not to limit your options until you are in a better position to make a judgement based on your own experiences, rather than listen to us folk.