Software Developer C++

bokmakierie

My husband is a software developer who has not been able to get work since arriving in the UK 3 years ago after gaining his postgraduate diploma in computer programming.

It's not that he hasn't applied for vacancies, he just does not seem to get to the interview level! We have files and files of dear john letters! Which does not help his ego!

He is highly intelligent, with a university degree plus a post graduate diploma. Is it because he is over qualified that he cannot find work, or is because he is 47? We are even willing to relocate from London to other areas. Is there anyone out there that has any contacts for us to follow??

Johnny Versace

Does he have any actual experience?

IT qualifications mean nothing in the work world... it's all about experience...

elivsvonchiaing

He shouldn't even bother applying for work in the City - i.e. finacial instutions. In my experience these are highly prejudiced against the over 40s in the IT sector.

If he has no experience, he should either pursue personal contacts in search of work, although this sort of thing can sour relationships or he could write a useful shareware tool (he will not make any money out of this he might re-coup hosting-costs that about it). Once the tool demonstrates he can write good code this should give him somekind of hope of landing a job.

MrNuked

Software tool idea is good. I started one and have been getting some contract work, just from being able to talk about it. The work I'm getting is related to the work I did on the tool, and not really related to anything I did in college. Too many grads with good degrees who have no interest and/or no ability in IT. You need something else to show you're not one of them.

aidan_walsh

In the mean time why doesn't he try getting small contract work via a site like guru.com? This way he can work jobs that suit him, gain expertise as well as build a portfolio that can be used to show prospective employers...

RicardoSmith

I have to say a well written CV works wonders. It has to be concise and no babble.

bokmakierie

doodle_sketch wrote:

In the mean time why doesn't he try getting small contract work via a site like guru.com? This way he can work jobs that suit him, gain expertise as well as build a portfolio that can be used to show prospective employers...

Thank you! I am pleased that someone at least gave me a viable lead to follow!!

I am sorry that some other small minded person thought that just because I had more than one posting on the day I joined i.e. - one about bargains on the net.. and the 2nd about my husband who could not find work in IT that I was committing some crime.

As it happens - I read through two different discussions - and thought I would join in. I never realised that I was committed to only discussing one thing at a time???

I was looking for advice and giving a lead all during one afternoon.. so what's so bad about that? I am an intelligent woman after all and am not restricted to one train of thought!

As for the bargains on the net. Yes when I found the site I did phone through an order and YES I was well pleased with my purchases and delivery. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise! It is at least all guaranteed new and very good quality. I wont mention the URL again in case someone else thinks I am pimping again! (Not a very nice comment at all!!).

Obviously I was mistaken in thinking I having found www.boards that I had found an interesting site! It seems it is harbouring a dodgy lot of characters with nothing better to do than be rude and pass nasty comments. If you have so much to say - why not say it to the government who allow other countries to dispose of their nuclear waste in our country.. put your aggression to good use!!!

RicardoSmith

bokmakierie - sorry I'm confused. What are you talking about? Did you mean to post this in another thread???

Raz

The thread she got flamed in is here.
It's been locked, hence the vent with this post.
bokmakierie, I think you should start a new thread in the bargins board to vent your frustrations as it's unlikely that it'll get read here by those who discredited you in bargins.
You shouldn't let it put you off boards.ie as there are plenty of other boards with interesting discussions that I think you'd appreciate.

p.pete

RicardoSmith wrote:

I have to say a well written CV works wonders. It has to be concise and no babble.

I'd go along with that - I spent a lot of time sending cv's that went nowhere.

Cover letters are important too - I spent a lot of time developing my cv, showing it to people and then working on it again. A lot of the time I disagreed with the things that were being pointed out but it's best to have an open mind.

Cover letters should convey an interest in the company and why the company would want you, or at the very least why they would want to bother to read the cv. I'm not sure it's necessary to go pointing out age unless it's a specific question on an application form.

Also, you look at the "sticky" threads on the work forum there is a lot of valuable info on the things I've mentioned above.

Also it's important to keep skills current - start reading up on C# for example if the jobs aren't coming in too fast. God forbid 3 years should turn into 6 but there is a lot that you can learn in 3 years (which can be added to CV).

And the hardest part, try to remain positive

WhiteWashMan

bokmakierie wrote:

Thank you! I am pleased that someone at least gave me a viable lead to follow!!

I am sorry that some other small minded person thought that just because I had more than one posting on the day I joined i.e. - one about bargains on the net.. and the 2nd about my husband who could not find work in IT that I was committing some crime.

As it happens - I read through two different discussions - and thought I would join in. I never realised that I was committed to only discussing one thing at a time???

I was looking for advice and giving a lead all during one afternoon.. so what's so bad about that? I am an intelligent woman after all and am not restricted to one train of thought!

As for the bargains on the net. Yes when I found the site I did phone through an order and YES I was well pleased with my purchases and delivery. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise! It is at least all guaranteed new and very good quality. I wont mention the URL again in case someone else thinks I am pimping again! (Not a very nice comment at all!!).

Obviously I was mistaken in thinking I having found www.boards that I had found an interesting site! It seems it is harbouring a dodgy lot of characters with nothing better to do than be rude and pass nasty comments. If you have so much to say - why not say it to the government who allow other countries to dispose of their nuclear waste in our country.. put your aggression to good use!!!

dont mind anyone.
this place has its fair share (90%) of idiots.

as the saying goes, opinions are like arse holes, everyones got one...
people like to make theirs heard here.

of course, id never do anything like that...


however, i am interested in why you r husband decided on a career change, and why he chose the path he is on?

the best way to get a job in that industry, is through networking and personal contacts. its bloody hard, its quite small, and apart from that, i know nothing else about it.
but listen to the advice given by the other above. they all know what they are talking about.

except ricardo, we think hes been at the cheese again...

bokmakierie

bokmakierie wrote:

My husband is a software developer who has not been able to get work since arriving in the UK 3 years ago after gaining his postgraduate diploma in computer programming.

It's not that he hasn't applied for vacancies, he just does not seem to get to the interview level! We have files and files of dear john letters! Which does not help his ego!

He is highly intelligent, with a university degree plus a post graduate diploma. Is it because he is over qualified that he cannot find work, or is because he is 47? We are even willing to relocate from London to other areas. Is there anyone out there that has any contacts for us to follow??

Thanks to everyone who has responded to me with decency. Sorry if I never made the reasons clearer why I was spouting off.. I just felt affronted at the time!

Ok - in answer to the question why did my husband change his career direction.. it was a matter of a complete fascination with computers!! He has had the odd small contract jobs gained through word of mouth - and has programmed a few packages for his own use and one he is hoping to sell. And yes its true - all the theory in the world is no substitute for practical experience in the work place but what employers sometimes do not always understand is that for some individuals - programming is a challenge and they have a natural ability for logic, and are willing to start in the post room (so to speak) to prove themselves.. they don't expect to start at the top.

Fortunately he doesn't lie around crying and waiting for some employer to give him a miracle chance. He does do other jobs too. It's just that he would give his eye teeth doing something that he loves!

I know if he could get as far as an interview - he would get the job - because they would realise his potential and dedication.. And that's where the crunch lies.. he hasn't got to any interviews as yet! His cover letters and CV have been checked by reputable employment agencies and they seem satisfied it is presentable. The sad thing is that in more than ten of the responses he has had they have told him he is over qualified for the position applied for. Doesn't make sense really unless its just an excuse they use to ease the pain of being rejected?

Anyway, he will not give up - and will probably throw me out on my ear if he knew I discussed his personal problems on the net! But, I will pass on the leads, he doesn't have to know where I got them from.

RicardoSmith

Most employers are only interested in that you HAVE the skills to do the job they want you do to. Not that you can learn them, or that programming is your vocation. In fact most would be happy that you see it only as a job, and you'll do the work in the most concise and efficent way, that causes them the least hassle. Its a business transaction, your skills for their money.

However they don't want to take on someone who will move on as soon as they get a better offer, and someone who is over qualified is likely to do this quicker than someone who is at the right skill level. Of course everyone will move eventually. These days most companies don't want to train their staff because of the expense, so you need to have the exact skills they are looking for. If you don't have those skills, either get them, or prove that you have them by doing the certifications. Doing little projects of your own isn't the same, as doing a project for a company.

There are no reputable employment agencies. By the nature of their business, they tell everyone what they want to hear and do what suits the agency best. Thats rarely the same as whats best for the employee or employer. So learn to interpret what they say.

Work hard on the CV, have the right skills on there and the certs to back it up. Don't put anything on the CV thats not relevent. Read the comments on CV's in this thread. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1890790#post1890790

p.pete

bokmakierie wrote:

The sad thing is that in more than ten of the responses he has had they have told him he is over qualified for the position applied for.

I would suggest he tailors his CV to specific jobs - this is expected. Try to gauge how much experience they are expecting based on the skills they require, the money they are prepared to off and any other information you can gleam.

Present them with a CV that shows that he's an excellent candidate but not someone who'll walk out when something better comes along. Also if there's paranoia about age then don't put that on the cv either. Basicly tell them what they want to hear, don't tell them everything. As I'm sure you're aware, the CV is just for getting an interview - it's there that you want to impress.

bokmakierie

Thank you RicardoSmith - this is very sound advice. He probably has been a bit enthusiastic up to now and over emphasised the bit that computers are a challenge etc!

I will discuss the CV hints with my husband and we can at least give it a try and see what happens. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Incidently, there was an interesting letter in todays Times - written 9 Sept 1946 telling about each vacancy advertised in the press at that time, receiving over 300 responses - and that only the first 5 are even opened and read - the rest are given to the secretary or the new appointee whose CV happened to lie on top of the pile to respond to with a dear John letter. We all know what a dear John letter does to the self esteem!

It IS a lottery getting them to open your application at all - AND if and when they do - you are right in saying the qualification they are looking for must hit them right between the eyes so that they can put your application on the 'maybe' pile! This letter stands as true today as it was then!!

Will drop a line here at a later date if we have any success with a shortened and less flowery CV. Thank you all for responding.

I must also just add in closing, that Personnel Agencies appear to do well placing secretaries and the like, but when it comes to more professional people - they appear to unlikely to succeed. It's not so easy finding an agency who specialises in IT placements anymore.

Another response from one of my responses was that companies know that after a couple of years, and after gaining practical experience the rookie will up and leave for more money. But it's also true that companies do not want people to dig in their heels and look towards a pension. Joe Bloggs gets decidedly staid in his ways after a few years and companies lose out on fresh ideas. That is one of the reasons my husband would prefer contract work.

I am one of those who would quite happily sit it out until early retirement - but it means having to accept the normal 6% annual increment and being left behind in the salary stakes - so even I have to move on every couple of years to earn more. Its rare to find companies offering high annual increases to hold onto staff members, no matter how experienced or how efficient.

Thank you all! You have been more help than you realise. Keep writing.. your combined experiences and tips are a godsend.

RicardoSmith wrote:

Most employers are only interested in that you HAVE the skills to do the job they want you do to. Not that you can learn them, or that programming is your vocation. In fact most would be happy that you see it only as a job, and you'll do the work in the most concise and efficent way, that causes them the least hassle. Its a business transaction, your skills for their money.

However they don't want to take on someone who will move on as soon as they get a better offer, and someone who is over qualified is likely to do this quicker than someone who is at the right skill level. Of course everyone will move eventually. These days most companies don't want to train their staff because of the expense, so you need to have the exact skills they are looking for. If you don't have those skills, either get them, or prove that you have them by doing the certifications. Doing little projects of your own isn't the same, as doing a project for a company.

There are no reputable employment agencies. By the nature of their business, they tell everyone what they want to hear and do what suits the agency best. Thats rarely the same as whats best for the employee or employer. So learn to interpret what they say.

Work hard on the CV, have the right skills on there and the certs to back it up. Don't put anything on the CV thats not relevent. Read the comments on CV's in this thread. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1890790#post1890790

elivsvonchiaing

I spoke to friend of mine recently who is an agent. He places in Ireland, UK, Belgium and Holland. So he has a good idea on what's going on.

Visual C++ v6. development is now almost all done in Bangalore. Jobs in this are like hen's teeth in Europe. Even C# .Net is not great. But would suggest your husband cross-trains to .NET and dabbles with the other languages. VB .NET is probably where he should start.