What is equality?

Flukey

It often amuses me how equality can mean the complete opposite of itself in certain situations. For example, we have had the whole thing around women wanting to be members of Portmarnock Golf Club on the basis of equality. If they got membership, they would insist on having their own toilets, on the basis of equality. So on the one hand equality means them wanting to be able to go to the same place that men can go and on the other hand equality means ensuring they don't have to go where the men have to go. Then you get people wanting to be treated the same as everyone else, but in order to do so they want to get special treatment. There is a sort of contradiction there, if you see what I mean. Anyway, I am sure you can think of some good examples, so I'll throw it open to the floor!

steveland?

Flukey wrote:

If they got membership, they would insist on having their own toilets, on the basis of equality.



they don't have to go where the men have to go.

Heh... good one!

And yeh it can be a touchy subject. If everyone was completely equal then it'd be OK to go up to a woman and tell jokes about boobs and the like which us men (grr arg *flexes muscels*) like to tell each other. But the reality is that ya can't so obviously no matter how much people want to be treated the same it's just not practical.

Chucky the tree

women are greedy, thats the bottom line.

they whinge about being treated equally, but if a fella doesnt pay for the girl he is considered scabby and what not.

back in the good old days they knew their place

Big Ears

Chucky the tree wrote:

women are greedy, thats the bottom line.

they whinge about being treated equally, but if a fella doesnt pay for the girl he is considered scabby and what not.

back in the good old days they knew their place

and theres only one way to put them back in they're place , nagging , the weopan that has defeat us men for so long can be used against Women .

'Why the hell , do you always leave the toilet seat down' , victory , and women goes off to cook dinner and quit her job , so she can look after the kids and do more cleaning .

Karl Hungus

I think the bigger irony is the fuss that's made over men only golf clubs, but women only nights at swimming pools are commonplace.

No, not a shred of double-standards there ladies!

RobertFoster

Big Ears wrote:

toilet seat

I never understood that one...it always seemed to be an American thing too...if I leave the seat down, wouldn't it result in it being weed upon?

Big Ears

RobertFoster wrote:

I never understood that one...it always seemed to be an American thing too...if I leave the seat down, wouldn't it result in it being weed upon?

exactly , think how much time you save yourself over the course of you're life by just leaving it up all the time .

munkeehaven

another whingey thread...i think you are gettin ''equality'' mixed up with ''appropriateness''. so what if there would be another toilet for women? its like that everywhere...mens toilets stink and do you want a women to be staring at your dick while you take a piss?!.....and for the ''paying for the girl ****" christ when the feck does that happen? i dont expect a guy to pay for me in any circumstances, i actually find it annoying that they feel obliged to pay all the time...and as for the toilet seat well ya know tis just courtesy..i have 3 brothers ..and i hate when they piss all over the seat like they have crooked cocks or something...

Chucky the tree

woops

elivsvonchiaing

munkeehaven wrote:

another whingey thread...i think you are gettin ''equality'' mixed up with ''appropriateness''. so what if there would be another toilet for women? its like that everywhere...mens toilets stink and do you want a women to be staring at your dick while you take a piss?!.....and for the ''paying for the girl ****" christ when the feck does that happen? i dont expect a guy to pay for me in any circumstances, i actually find it annoying that they feel obliged to pay all the time...and as for the toilet seat well ya know tis just courtesy..i have 3 brothers ..and i hate when they piss all over the seat like they have crooked cocks or something...

Sorry munkeehaven have to disagree... I do agree Portmarnock etc. Represent the tired-auld bastard mcp side of the argument (fcuk have to add here that I am not a woman to newbies about) (amazing how quick that disclaimer emerged in my lazy mind!). I "think" this post could turn into an anti Germaine-Greer post yet. Not such a bad thing IMHO. Was delighted when she was beat up/help captive couple of years ago - by an agressive female - her hypothisis has holes in it methinks!

munkeehaven

you see equality will probably never be achieved with men and women until there is a complete change in everything. the reality is men still rule the world (and im not talking like some crazy fem).....you see in the 3rd world it still is like it was a 100 years ago...they are at home doing the cooking,no education blah blah.i just think that there should be a joint movement for men and women to get rid of the shi-t that both sexes have to put up with.ie the stereotype that all of us are expected to live up to.we live in the 1st world so we have the luxury to stand up to discrimination but others arent so lucky.

cujimmy

As I see it equalities and equal opportunities is about making sure that EVERYBODY gets a chance to participate, whether thats in work, hobbies, in going to the shops, in being elected to the dail - all on an equal basis and to be treated appropriately. Its a very broad idea that isnt just about your gender or your race, but about anything that might mean that you participate differently, more or less in any given activity or that you are treated differently.

There are loads of things that might affect the way people are treated or are allowed to participate, but most of the work done on Equal Ops tends to concentrate on 9 specific areas ( sex, marital status,race,disability, age, language, sexual orientation, social origin, beliefs and opinions)

Sleepy

Karl Hungus wrote:

I think the bigger irony is the fuss that's made over men only golf clubs, but women only nights at swimming pools are commonplace.

No, not a shred of double-standards there ladies!

That drives me nuts. My local pool seems to have a policy of running these at exactly the times it would be most convenient for me to go for a swim! Can you imagine how fast a leisure centre would be sued if there was a "mens-only" night?

I'm all for equality between the sexes but equality means equality, not superiority of one sex over the other.

ixoy

Sleepy wrote:

That drives me nuts. My local pool seems to have a policy of running these at exactly the times it would be most convenient for me to go for a swim! Can you imagine how fast a leisure centre would be sued if there was a "mens-only" night?.

And men can sue, but we don't... The Equality Act provides for exclusivity in certain cases if it can be proven, in some form, that there's a need not to mix. If they have a reason for their "women's only" time then they can get away with it. But in principle, the double-standards is sickening and I'm wondering if anyone here would like to defend it?
A true feminist would surely like to see balance, with men and women on an equal playing ground on all aspects. If women are under represented in certain areas is it always because of blatant sexist favorotism or are there other factors involved, etc.? And would some of those activists also like to redress the imbalance that men receive when it comes to matters relating to family and the child? Such a potential hotbed...

Imposter

Another fine example here.

I will say though that I think clubs, societies and support groups and the like should have every right to define their own rules. If that means putting a rule that's racist or sexist in place then fine. It is up to the rest of society to dismiss this group as they see fit without interfering with this clubs/societies business.

ixoy

Imposter wrote:

I will say though that I think clubs, societies and support groups and the like should have every right to define their own rules. If that means putting a rule that's racist or sexist in place then fine. It is up to the rest of society to dismiss this group as they see fit without interfering with this clubs/societies business.

I agree on this. Trouble was Portmarnock Golf Club was doing fine and was certainly not being dismissed so they got taken to court. If I remember correctly, the club would have gotten away with it had it not been for their pesky entrance rules. It was - and someone may correct me here - that women could join but only in a very limited capacity. Thus women members were less equal than male members and this was against the judge's intepretation of the Equality Act. I think if they hadn't let women become members in any capacity at all then Portmarnock Golf Club may have gotten away with it. Ask Victor...

Catch_22

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

(fcuk have to add here that I am not a woman to newbies about)

...

Join Date: July 2004

:rolleyes:

cujimmy

Taken from the equal opportunities website

Q: My local swimming pool runs women only sessions at certain peak times in the evenings. I work full time and there is no other pool in my area. Is this lawful?

A: This would be within the law if the exception for "serious embarrassment" and "state of undress" applied. The provider would need to demonstrate that the user group is seriously embarrassed at the presence of the opposite sex. This might be the case, for example, where the user group has a significant proportion of users who for religious or cultural reasons, would not swim in the presence of members of the opposite sex. They may for example decide to survey the group to ascertain this.

Sleepy

Well, that's a bull**** law then innit?

BlitzKrieg

couldnt men push for the same 'serious embarresment' when golfing in those terrible golf clothes?

roundcrisis

Chucky the tree wrote:

women are greedy, thats the bottom line.

they whinge about being treated equally, but if a fella doesnt pay for the girl he is considered scabby and what not.

back in the good old days they knew their place

Man, you are sooooo FULL of it!

robbie1876

cujimmy wrote:

Taken from the equal opportunities website

Q: My local swimming pool runs women only sessions at certain peak times in the evenings. I work full time and there is no other pool in my area. Is this lawful?

A: This would be within the law if the exception for "serious embarrassment" and "state of undress" applied. The provider would need to demonstrate that the user group is seriously embarrassed at the presence of the opposite sex. This might be the case, for example, where the user group has a significant proportion of users who for religious or cultural reasons, would not swim in the presence of members of the opposite sex. They may for example decide to survey the group to ascertain this.

What's all that about? Do women swim around in their nip on these women only nights? Howcome they don't get embarrassed on the non-feminist nights, when all us dirty old men can leer at all the women, while pretending to swim?

To answer the original question "What is equality", equality is when women campaign to be bin collectors and brickies. In other words, when they campaign for equal rights for women, not just when it suits them, or they want top executive jobs and get them by moaning about how the male/female ratio in top jobs. I have yet to hear women complaining about the m/f ratio in the road sweeping industry.

In addition, we need more male feminists to fight for us to swim whenever we want.

Robbie

shiv

is it just me or are irish men more chauvinistic and caveman-inclined mentally than most?

methinks it must be all the mutual arse-licking between irish mothers and their sons...

elivsvonchiaing

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

I "think" this post could turn into an anti Germaine-Greer post yet. Not such a bad thing IMHO. Was delighted when she was beat up/help captive couple of years ago - by an agressive female - her hypothisis has holes in it methinks!

I now realise that I have stumbled into a thread which I am highly emmotive about. And I by no means the only one. I know it would have been wiser of me to just shut tfu. (I still need to know how people feel about this).

I said this because I believe this woman opened up a chasm in society. Does everyone here think otherwise?

OfflerCrocGod

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

I said this because I believe this woman opened up a chasm in society. Does everyone here think otherwise?

Yes, cause most ppl here wouldn't know who the fuc5 you're talking about - they'd mistake "The Female Eunuch" for a lady who's had an unfortunate accident (if they even knew what the word meant). That golf club had every right - as a private club - to have rules discriminating againts whomever they wished, what next sue the Sisters Of Charity because they wont allow male nuns? Now can we bury these stupid, boring, whining 40 page long rants about sex! After Hours is getting packed with them and they are all the same :rolleyes:, where are the stupid, silly threads like the ninjas thread? There must be a lot of sexually repressed ppl if these threads keep on popping up

Big Ears

feminists:there isn't enough opportunity for women to become Ninjas .

On that matter , who else likes the idea of Female Ninjas .

{goes off , day dreaming , or night as it is now}

elivsvonchiaing

Big Ears wrote:

feminists:there isn't enough opportunity for women to become Ninjas .

On that matter , who else likes the idea of Female Ninjas .

{goes off , day dreaming , or night as it is now}

Sigh! Inclined to agree with last two posts...

My thoughts now: maybe this thread belongs in humanities - basically elsewhere.

After Hours should be more - talking complete crap and having a laugh - this is just too serious a subject for here.

rainbow kirby

Big Ears wrote:

On that matter , who else likes the idea of Female Ninjas .

I wanna be a female ninja!
/me misses ninja smiley...

Big Ears

ya , I thinl everyone misses the ninja smiley .

{me goes of dreaming of female ninjas again}

elivsvonchiaing

Big Ears wrote:

ya , I thinl everyone misses the ninja smiley .

{me goes of dreaming of female ninjas again}

You Guys are God. Dead impressed down here I can tell ya :rolleyes:

Flukey

You get all sorts of things. Say 10 people go for a job, 9 women and 1 man. Now say the man gets the job, immediately you would have screams of discrimination from the 9 women. The employers have the right to choose who they want for the job, whoever that might be. If one of the women had got the job, would the 8 women and the man turn around and cry foul? Probably not. There will be occasions when the man would be the best of the 10 candidates. An employer should have the right to employ whichever of the 10 candidates they want. If the women want to be treated equally, then there are 10 candidates and one got the job. If the women want to be treated equally, then the gender of the successful candidate should not be an issue. Just because the man got the job, that does not mean there has been some discrimination, no more that if any of the other 9 candidates had got it.

RobertFoster

rainbow kirby wrote:

/me misses ninja smiley...

me too

Big Ears

RobertFoster wrote:

me too

thats not just the same , but it would ba acceptable .

blondie83

Here's some ninja smileys for you all!

http://members.boards.ie/blondie83/ninja1.gif
http://members.boards.ie/blondie83/ninja2.gif
http://members.boards.ie/blondie83/ninja3.gif
http://members.boards.ie/blondie83/ninja4.gif

sorry they're in link form, but the image tags aren't working

simu

The swimming pool thing is stupid. I don't get it but there must be money in it for the owners of the pools.

Another point: not all women are feminists. Also, like Maxism or Christianity there are hundreds if not thousands of takes on the concept - some of these are sound, others are complete nonsense.

Sleepy

Actually simu, quite a lot of men were part of the original feminist movement until the point where it became a men-hating group and kicked the men out!

simu

Sleepy wrote:

Actually simu, quite a lot of men were part of the original feminist movement until the point where it became a men-hating group and kicked the men out!

Fair enough.

The problem with feminism (or any other way of analysing power relations) is that if it is to be a sincere attempt to understand what is happening and to create fairness amongst men & women, constant analysis of social conditions is required. In any case where "sexism" becomes an issue, there are other factors at play as well and often, these are not easy to isolate. Organisations, feminist ones included, are generally bad at such minute adaptations so you tend to hear the same old criticisms from them, criticisms that have come to seem not only rebarbative but irrelevant as they do not quite match up to the reality of the situations they are reations to.