choices, choices

Unpossible

Ok heres the situation, Im about to start college in the city of Koupio and have found a list of their martial arts and am unsure of which to do.
btw I am not interested in self defence (I believe in running away), I have only ever done martial arts because I enjoyed them and I like the physical benifits (flexability).
So here is the list I can choose from;

Aikido, Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, Han Moo Do, Judo, Ju-Jutsu (Hokutoryu), Karate (Wado-Ryu), Kendo, Kickboxing, Krav Maga, Kung-Fu (Wing Tsun), Kyusho Jutsu (Ryukyu Kempo), Taekwon-Do (ITF), Taekwondo (WTF), Taido

I have done judo in college and TKD (until our college stopped it), I enjoy judo and will try to do that first but can someone explain what the difference between the TKDs is? Is it just a difference in sparring rules? My reasons for martial arts are shallow, basically Im a fan of HKL and want the ability to do fancy kicks, use weapons, speed up my reactions and basically to study it as an "art".

So in short I can do 2-3 depending on how the training times work out (these ppl train almost everyday)


PS; the sites are in finnish so could somebody please discribe the following? ;
Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu
Ju-Jutsu (Hokutoryu)
Kung-Fu (Wing Tsun)
Kyusho Jutsu (Ryukyu Kempo)
Taido

thanks and sorry for starting another one of these threads

Seion

PS; the sites are in finnish so could somebody please discribe the following? ;
Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

I don't know much about the other arts you asked about, but I practice Bujinkan martial arts, so possible this may help.

Bujinkan Dōjō Budō Taijutsu (also occasionally called ninjutsu or ninpo) is a Japanese martial art drawing elements of nine ancient schools of classical Japanese martial arts together into a single study. This system was created by the current Sokē (inheritor) of these schools, Masaaki Hatsumi Sensei. The schools taught are:

Togakure Ryū Ninpō
Kotō Ryū Koppōjutsu
Gyokko Ryū Koshijutsu
Kukishinden Happō Biken
Takagi Yōshin Ryū Jūtaijutsu
Kumogakure Ryū Ninpō Happō Biken
Gyokushin Ryū Ninpō Happō Biken
Shinden Fudo Ryū Dakentaijutsu
Gikan Ryū Koppōjutsu

These arts are taught together as the martial art of Budō Taijutsu and the modern curriculum includes multiple fighting skills drawn from very old combat arts, such as punching, kicking, throwing, limb restraints, rolling and breakfalling. Also studied are weapons including the long and short Japanese sword, long, medium and short staffs, flexible rope and chain weapons and throwing weapons.

The teaching method includes basic movement drills designed to increase coordination and spatial awareness, leading on to more advanced movement and the study of traditional kata, or prearranged techniques and henka, or variations, from the nine schools listed above.

Bujinkan Dojo's tend to vary in quality, as do instructors. In general, the skills of the teacher will be directly proportional to how often they train themselves under another teacher and how often they travel to Japan to train under the senior teachers there. It's an unusual art in that this aspect of training is pretty much demanded at senior levels as the system is really huge in scope.

Before making any decision on one art or another, I would attend the training of as many of the available arts at your new college as I could and see which ones I liked the look of, and much more importantly, which ones you like the feeling and ethos of. (Personally, I don't have much time for lots of artificial discipline and the like, but that can be to some people's liking.)

Hope that helps.

WTF- Olympic Taekwondo doesnt include hand strikes. Only allowed kick

ITF- includes hand strikes.

1) Dont do 2-3. Youll get 1/2- 1/3 of the benefit. Its not like training boxing and wrestling to round yourself out. Traditional martial arts are different. You will be learning conflicting things. You wont have sparring to blend everything so this will impact your training

2) Defo do Judo. Great martial art.

3) If I had to pick 3 I would do Kendo, Judo and the traditional japanese Ju jutsu or Wado-Ryu Karate.

Ju-Jutsu (Hokutoryu)

I presume just a style of traditiona japanese ju-jutsu

Kung-Fu (Wing Tsun)

V. short range kung fu style. Not particularily effective. Look on the web for kyukushinkai karate vs. wing tsun. Hilarious

Kyusho Jutsu (Ryukyu Kempo)

Stay away. As far as I know these guys do Dim-Mak and pressure point strikes. A little crazy in my opinion

Taido

www.taido.net ----> go to the Q&A!


If its cool flashiness youre after eg image then maybe do

-->WTF Tae Kwon Do
-->Aikido
-->Han Moo Do or Wing Tsun

dudara

TKD translates as "the art of hand and foot". It's meant to be both and this is why I personally prefer ITF to WTF TKD. WTF spar using feet mainly. How this got chosen to be the olympic version of TKD is beyond me!

Unpossible

Stay away. As far as I know these guys do Dim-Mak and pressure point strikes. A little crazy in my opinion

Yeah I just found a website on it :eek: some guy just went around knocking ppl out.

I'll definatly do judo (if its near my college I don't fancy a long walk in -30 degrees),
Ive narrowed down the second one to;
Tae Kwon Do, Han Moo Do or Wing Tsun
The weapons with Han Moo Do being a big plus.

If its cool flashiness youre after eg image then maybe do

Well its not like im going to go around telling ppl I have mystical kung fu powers or start trying high kicks on ppl.


*edit; If I did ITF could I compete in the other one also?

Kyusho Jitsu in action.

HAHAHA! Check out when he tries his magic on the BJJ people and the reporter.

Well worth the download. Just to see cult brainwashing in action

Bullshido- Fox Dim Mak Report (REQUIRES REAL PLAYER www.real.com)

Well its not like im going to go around telling ppl I have mystical kung fu powers or start trying high kicks on ppl.

Good! Or else we'll have to come over on our MMA-copter and sort you out!

Unpossible

MMA-copter and sort you out

I fear not this copter you speak of for using my ancient TMA-chariot I shall astound and confuse you with my set patterns and wood breaking abilities

Cake Fiend

All potentially interesting arts. Your best bet is to try a few out for a few weeks and see what you like. It's impossible to say whether you should go for a particular art or not - it all depends on the school/instructor, you can only make vague assumptions based on the type of art.

TKD's not my bag, but I hear ITF is the 'real' martial art of TKD. WTF is the 'sport' TKD. All silly jumping around and fancy kicks.

Wado-ryu is an interesting form of karate, could be worth having a look at. It generally aims for relatively non-violent forms of defence (evasion, redirection, grappling...).

Kyusho-jutsu is often thought of as being a load of nonsense, but it could still prove to be an interesting study. It's based around nerve and pressure-point striking, which a lot of eastern martial arts try to incorporate in some way or another. Whether you're going to be able to hit Lung 5 with your little finger in the middle of a drunken brawl is something to consider, but it could be good craic.

I'm not familiar with that particular 'school' of ju-jutsu, but ju-jutsu is always worth learning, especially when you can mix it up with other arts (e.g. karate or TKD). Some of it might be familiar with your judo background. Definitely have a go at this and see what you think.

I don't know a whole lot about Taijutsu, but there are a few practitioners on this board. I'm not entirely convinced of its self-defence qualities, but I'm sure that's fairly rich coming from a shotokan karateka Could be fun, you get to dress up like a ninja and play with weapons.

I wouldn't go near Wing Ch/Tsung. Watch the aforementioned kyokushin clip, it's rather comical.

Definitely have a go of Krav Maga - it will open your eyes regarding real, effective self-defence. You say that self-defence isn't a concern, but it wouldn't do any harm to be prepared in the worst-case scenario. Also, you'll be knackered after a KM session - good for a bit of cardio

Unpossible

Ive done KM before, it was actually fun. The problem with joining for a week or two is that all these clubs require me to pay for at least 6 months in advance, so while I might get away with it for one week, two would be pushing it. I suppose one class of each would be helpful

Did any of you watch the clip I posted?

Unpossible

Im not going to put real player back on this computer, so unless you can find an avi or something? I couldn't find the video sico mentioned either.

I really appriciate the feedback, its great to read other ppls expirence/point of view with the above arts.

Check bullshido.net for the kyukushinkai vs. wing tsun clip. Hilarious!

Also check for two wing tsun guys really fighting at a seminar. Pathetic!

Unpossible

well Ive narrowed it down to;
Han Moo Do,
Judo
TKD (ITF)
Krav Maga
Karate
Kung Fu

Im now waiting for responses to emails asking for times and costs, as theres no point in me walking long distances at night in sub-zero temperatures or spending food money on classes.

Damo W

Hi Guys,

For you info. the Ryukyu Kempo/ Kyusho Jitsu was made popular by the Dillman, Oyata etc. sites listed below

http://www.dillman.com/
Dillman

http://www.kushu.com/
Oyata

http://www.ryushu.com/
Oyata

Some of Dillman former colleagues have ventured on their own.....

http://www.dragonsociety.com/
Rick Moneymaker

http://www.kyusho.com/toc.htm
Evan P.

This then further expands in to groups utilising this info in their own systems

http://www.kissakikarate.com/
Vince Morris initally was a Shotokan Karate-Ka and still does Shotokan seminars I believe.

http://www.ao-denkou-kai.org/
Rick Clarke has many influences including Dillman etc.

Have a look and see what you think.

Damien

Damo W

Unpossible,

If you do seek these guys out don't let any of them knock you out... it just can't be good for you

Damien

Unpossible

Ive seen the schools promotional videos and decided against going to them, knocking someone out with one touch looks cool but I doubt if its easy or safe to do if your not a master

TwoKingMick

Its not possible to do, watch the video.

Dim-Mak Guy
"Are you feeling warm, light headed?"

BJJ Guy
"No. But I do get head in the head a lot!"

Naos

Watched it.. Amusing. What a sap ur man is, only works on 40% of the population. And then the claim of, "Well the JuJitsu guys are able to focus their energy, so they cant feel it, they are trained to" ... I would have asked him this. If he can focus his energy to knock some1 out like that, why cant he stop one of them attacks? Seen as he too is able to focus and control enegry, and is a MA student.. idiot.

Unpossible

is the Karate (Wado-Ryu), any good? of course al the websites say its great but...

Define any good? You said your criteria for doing the art is that it looks cool!
Do you mean self defence because to be honest that completely changes the playing field. For self defence do Judo and Kickboxing (assuming its full contact)!

Judging Wado Ryu against other styles of Karate (Shotokan, Goju-Ryu):

-Less linear
-More joint locks
-More sparring orientated.

I would prefer it to other Karate styles!

Unpossible

You said your criteria for doing the art is that it looks cool!

Hmmm, I didn't know how to phrase what I want properly and still can't. Ok ill try it this way, what would be involved in terms of kicks, punches sparring, kata ?

For self defence do Judo and Kickboxing (assuming its full contact)!

I will be doing judo, krav is another possibilitly depending on the price and times (Im waiting for a reply).

S***e I know Im being annoying with the way Im asking all these things, its just that Im kinda lost here and don't know anyone in the classes (or even how to read the websites).

atm judo is a definite and then probably Han Moo Do, Krav Maga or karate to go with the judo. Its almost all depending on times and costs now as HMD are looking for a new place & times, and the KM haven't given me costs yet.

Give Wado a try. I had good experiences with it and it forms a nice blending of Karate and Jiu Jitsu.

Unpossible

didn't know how to phrase what I want properly and still can't.

Ok, I think I know how to phrase what I want better, I want to be a good allrounder. I want to be able to handle myself on the ground (judo) but also be able to do a large variety of punches & kicks (especially fancy kicks) and if possible learn how to handle a weapon. As I said before though I'm not looking for self-defence, nor do I want to do a MMA that would combine the things I mentioned above.

Due to practical reasons i.e. I can only be in one place at a time, costs, and amount of free time I have per week. I have shortened the list, as I said judo is a definate; now its just down to karate and Han Moo Do (which seems to have more of what I want).

Wado Ryu is interesting. It combines a very dynamic style of Karate with aspects of (i think) Yoshin Ryu Aiki Jitsu. Obviously it depends on the school. If you are after flashier stuff (and weapons) then I think HMD is the way to go.

Also the Judo should give you some self defence skills.

A good balance!

Unpossible

Also the Judo should give you some self defence skills

they teach running away & broken bottle strikes in judo? It must be done in the higher levels I suppose


Note;I have another post in this fourm which will explain this

Note: I don't go around bottling people

NeoSlicerZ

dudara wrote:

TKD translates as "the art of hand and foot". It's meant to be both and this is why I personally prefer ITF to WTF TKD. WTF spar using feet mainly. How this got chosen to be the olympic version of TKD is beyond me!

I agree.... and i'm going to the ITF World Championships in October to take part

Unpossible

good luck

Unpossible

well I went to the demonstrations & classes of karate and HMD, have to say HMD out shined it. So Im doing judo & HMD

Michael O Leary

columok wrote:

Check bullshido.net for the kyukushinkai vs. wing tsun clip. Hilarious!

Hi all,

This video clip of a Wing Tsun guy getting his ass kicked by a kyukushinkai guy is proving hard to find. I have looked for it in youtube, google, bullshido etc and cannot find it. I am beginning to think that it may not exist. Can anyone help?

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

kenpo_dave

Firstly heres some funny clips of Dillman...they may have been the ones that columok posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-x4...&search=dillman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrz...&search=dillman

The second one is the BJJ one.

Secondly, as far as I know Wado Ryu is actually based more on Ju Jutsu than Karate. The thing with Wado schools is that they can be either point sparring and light contact continuous sparring, or full contact. I suppose though that some schools might do it all.

OSU,

Dave.

Colm_OReilly

Why is a thread over a year and half old being dragged back up?

Michael O Leary

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Why is a thread over a year and half old being dragged back up?

Hi Colm,

Because it has taken me about a year and a half of looking and I can still not find the clip. Have I broken any rules?

Also anytime people type Wing Tsun and Dublin/Ireland into a search engine Columok's quote comes up. So if there is a video clip out there of a Karate guy kicking a Wing Tsun guy's butt I would like to see it and if no such clip exists then I would like it acknowledged.

If people were saying there was a video clip of a Wing Tsun/Karate/Cardio kickboxing guy doing the same to a BJJ practitioner would you not be the same?

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Cabelo

Mod - please?

Scramble

No idea if this is the video that was on Bullshido, but youtube.com has this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpRNReo8KkE&search=Wing%20Tsun

Michael O Leary

Scramble wrote:

No idea if this is the video that was on Bullshido, but youtube.com has this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpRNReo8KkE&search=Wing%20Tsun

Thanks Scramble,

This is not a Wing Tsun guy in the video clip. This is a "very" bad practitioner of Wing Chun. While there are very good Wing Chun practitioners and organisations, there can be large differences in strategy, tactics, techniques and training methods.

I am not going to get into an online debate about my motivations for "dragging" this post up but until someone provides me with a video clip of a Wing Tsun guy getting his ass kicked by a Kyukushinkai guy I am taking it that the fight did not happen and that no such clip exists.

However if a clip does exist, fair play to both fighters. From the little I know about Kyukushinkai, it seems to be a good tough style worthy of respect.

Columok, can you clarify is this is the videoclip that you are talking about?

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Scramble

Out of curiosity, I searched Bullshido and turned up a few references to the clip I linked to. The karate guy is apparently called Ninomiya, who appears to have been a kyokushin guy before creating his own similar style of knockdown karate. Looks like he stops his opponent with one strike to the body and then helps carry him off (classy).

One of the posts

It could be linked to directly on Bullshido, somewhere, but you could spend hours wading through the forum looking for it, because the threads get so big (plus- hours reading Bullshido? Might as well get a lobotomy and be done with it...). It's at least been brought up and discussed.

It seems plausible to me that this was the clip Colum was talking about?

Either way- that's ten minutes of my life I'll never have back!

Michael,

It more than likely is. But me remembering internet stuff from 2004 is difficult at best. I've seen a lot of clips of people who look great statically getting the crap knocked out of them by someone from a pressure tested "sports" martial art.

Colum

loz

columok wrote:

WTF- Olympic Taekwondo doesnt include hand strikes. Only allowed kick

HI,

Punches to the midsection are allowed in fights.


Loz

Roper

Colum i just read your thread in your signature. Ah those were the golden days. It truly was the "best thread ever".

On another note I starved my dog for 3 days and smeared tomato sauce around my letter box waiting on that solicitors letter... all to no avail.

Michael O Leary

Hi all,

This is not an attack on Columok whom I like a lot.:)

In relation to Wing Tsun he wrote,

columok wrote:

V. short range kung fu style. Not particularily effective. Look on the web for kyukushinkai karate vs. wing tsun. Hilarious

As it looks that he was wrong about the video clip he may also be wrong about Wing Tsun not being particularly effective. Of course I may be wrong about it being effective. I have been wrong about a few things in my life.:D

I have a video of me winning a competition fight against a Thai Boxer in 1996. I may make it public at some stage but anyone is welcome at any stage to come around to my house, have a cup of tea and watch it with me.

Moral of the story? Don't trust what you read on the internet but try things out for yourself.

Regards all,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Roper

I think that's a fair summation Michael. I've often felt the same way about Taekwondo. The difficulty comes when there are several sets of standards. And I think we can agree that across the board in Ireland, there are good and bad ways of training.

Ultimately, there is good and bad in everything and it's a personal journey to find what works best for you. As long as you can test it and try it in a realistic environment, it's all good.

When where what was the competition? Who was the Thai Boxer? Upload damn you upload. This is what Youtube is all about!

Unpossible

No idea if this is the video that was on Bullshido, but youtube.com has this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpRNR...ch=Wing%20Tsun

No I dont think that was the video in question. I remember when I first started this thread and was pointed towards bullshido I saw a clip with a karate guy vs wing tsun guy. It was two guys just flinging their arms and legs at each other until one fell. It was hard to tell who was doing what style & all the comments left by people said that it looked like neither fighter had done more than a year of each art. The general consensus (sp?) was that it was a poor fight between poor martial artists.

Scramble

This is a likely candidate:-

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Links&file=viewarticle&id=75&highlight=Wing