Windows XP users, have you checked Windows Update recently?

ColmOT [MSFT]

Hi, I'd like to get any feedback from Windows XP users about the new version of Windows Update (http://V5.windowsupdate.microsoft.com) that you are seeing when you connect to Windows Update.

Any comments, criticisms, suggestions, problems, annoyances or anything you'd like to say about it is greatly appreciated.

Please post your reposnses in this thread.

Cheers,

Colm

KdjaCL

Where is the catalogue option gone?

I like downloading them then running them.

kdjac

maxheadroom

why does it have ln=en-us in the address bar when all my regional settings are sen to en_IE?

maxheadroom

KdjaC wrote:

Where is the catalogue option gone?

I like downloading them then running them.

kdjac

Its in Administrator options, under "Other Options"

ColmOT [MSFT]

Maxheadroom, All English locales use EN-US because there is no difference between the English used. Ok - there may be spelling differences between EN-US & EN-IE, but that has never been taken into account with Windows.

So to answer your question, EN-US == EN-IE

Stephen

Haven't used the website, just the control panel applet in Windows 2000. (which pushed about 50mb of updates down to me after i built a machine this morning and installed sp4)

SantaHoe

You need to be running a version of Internet Explorer 5 or higher in order to use Windows Update.

pfff

GreyAlien

Heres one suggestion why doesn't Bill allow other browsers like Firefox access to the windows update site? Thought they might of changed it in this new version. Looks like he is trying to force internet explorer down peoples throats.

ColmOT [MSFT]

Windows Update has never supported any other browser other than IE.

Sorry SantaHoe...

maxheadroom

Now, to be fair, something like windowsupdate is going to have a large customer side component, and, for better or worse, the best browser for running custom software on the customer's machine is IE

Creamy Goodness

why is it with me that the updates download at normal 7.5k (64k isdn)

then take about 30minutes to install?

ColmOT [MSFT]

Cr3m0, the download will always be pretty fast...but install can take a while because the installer does a lot of pre-install work (inventoring your system, backing up current files, installing new version of file, checking services etc)...and each update does this. So multiple updates will take a little time to install.

maxheadroom

ColmOT [MSFT] wrote:

Maxheadroom, All English locales use EN-US because there is no difference between the English used. Ok - there may be spelling differences between EN-US & EN-IE, but that has never been taken into account with Windows.

So to answer your question, EN-US == EN-IE

Thanks for the info - I'd assumed there might be some slight customization for europe vs US, but I suppose it wouldn't really be worthwhile.

ColmOT [MSFT]

Well, as far as the OS goes, there's nothing different between the US English version and the European English locales. Ultimately, most updates on WU are core fixes, and are language independent.

Also, driver updates are 'driver updates' so it doesn't matter what locale the OS is setup for, these driver updates will work.

Creamy Goodness

ColmOT [MSFT] wrote:

Cr3m0, the download will always be pretty fast...but install can take a while because the installer does a lot of pre-install work (inventoring your system, backing up current files, installing new version of file, checking services etc)...and each update does this. So multiple updates will take a little time to install.

well at least if it's not just happening to me i suppose it's okay

parsi

ColmOT [MSFT] wrote:

Hi, I'd like to get any feedback from Windows XP users about the new version of Windows Update (http://V5.windowsupdate.microsoft.com) that you are seeing when you connect to Windows Update.

Any comments, criticisms, suggestions, problems, annoyances or anything you'd like to say about it is greatly appreciated.

Please post your reposnses in this thread.

Cheers,

Colm

Yeah its cool... howver I did a W2k -> W2k03 course last week and it droned on abot software update services (SUS) and I thought how arrogant it was for a company to imply it was to our benefit it was to apply their patches....just to keeep going.... Mr Gates seems to think that we are all but beta testers for his products....in Cork he'd be known as a lange*

Dun

maxheadroom wrote:

Its in Administrator options, under "Other Options"

It's in the grey bar running across the top as well.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Stephen

Why is it that all of the "driver updates" on WU are ridiculously out of date?

Also, I second the web browser comments. IE is a piece of crap, and the best way to fill your system with malware.

maxheadroom

Dun wrote:

It's in the grey bar running across the top as well.

When I clicked there it tried to sell me stuff (redirects here.)

And while I agree that IE is a less than optimum browser, there's only two technologies that you could use for this kind of system - ActiveX and Java. Which one do you think MS have more experience with? With the activeX solution they can engineer the entire solution, from activeX control to the OS routines it will interact with, to the server backend that the site runs off. They wouldn't have nearly the same level of control or flexibility with a java implementation.

Like I said above, IE is the best browser for running a custom app on the target machine. For better or worse.

(And, all the anti-MS zealots who need no excuse to rant will ignore all this, but think about it. Its not like this needs to be cross platform, and by locking into IE they reduce their support burden. This is in addition to the benefits to them of using their own ActiveX technologies.)

Dun

Unless they actually did have a custom standalone app and gave users the opportunity to remove IE completely. Look at how much trouble having IE integrated with the OS has caused already; you don't actually have to use IE to be subject to one of its faults. And this is just looking at the situation from a practicality point of view, not an "anti-MS zealot" view.

maxheadroom

Dun wrote:

Unless they actually did have a custom standalone app and gave users the opportunity to remove IE completely. Look at how much trouble having IE integrated with the OS has caused already; you don't actually have to use IE to be subject to one of its faults. And this is just looking at the situation from a practicality point of view, not an "anti-MS zealot" view.

I actually agree with this, but, being pragmatic about it, with the current state of play, there's no reason for them to support any other browser. In fact, this integration with the OS makes IE an even better choice from the point of view of designing an update service.

But, even if IE was a completely seperate application, with no ties to the OS other than being bundled with it, it still makes sense for MS to use their own technologies to deliver the service - that way they're in control of all the tech involved and it makes it much easier for them to design, implement and support the whole thing.

I mean, asking MS to make windows update work on other browsers is a little bit like asking Ximian to make Red Carpet work for WinXP.

BigEejit

heh .... driver updates wants to install Ati drivers from December 2003 :rolleyes: .... that would probably slow down a lot of this years games, possibly stop some of them .....

And why doesnt it suggest installing DirectX9.0c?

Dun

maxheadroom wrote:

I actually agree with this, but, being pragmatic about it, with the current state of play, there's no reason for them to support any other browser. In fact, this integration with the OS makes IE an even better choice from the point of view of designing an update service.

But, even if IE was a completely seperate application, with no ties to the OS other than being bundled with it, it still makes sense for MS to use their own technologies to deliver the service - that way they're in control of all the tech involved and it makes it much easier for them to design, implement and support the whole thing.

I mean, asking MS to make windows update work on other browsers is a little bit like asking Ximian to make Red Carpet work for WinXP.

I don't think they should run it on any other browser, but although the OS integration makes IE available for the update service, it is also a cause of the need for a lot of updates. It doesn't bother me having to use IE to use Windows Update - after all I've no choice but to have it on my computer (while using Windows). I would just rather have the choice of being able to dump IE and use a standalone app.

seamus

New site looks good. I don't like the simplistic options whenit starts up though - automatic search & install or custom. You should be able to tick a box saying "remember my selection" so it brings you straight to the automatic or custom update each time you go to windows update.
Easily done with a persistant cookie.

Also something which has always annoyed me about the update site is that you can't ask it to ignore any updates you don't want. For example, there are two software updates and two hardware updates which I don't want/need. Every time I go onto the site it tells me these are available for download. Twould be nice if these either didn't show up, or didn't show up as new when I opened windows update.

ColmOT [MSFT]

seamus wrote:

Also something which has always annoyed me about the update site is that you can't ask it to ignore any updates you don't want. For example, there are two software updates and two hardware updates which I don't want/need. Every time I go onto the site it tells me these are available for download. Twould be nice if these either didn't show up, or didn't show up as new when I opened windows update.

Seamus, with V5, you can tell the site to ignore certain updates, so that it doesn't show them again. Additionally, if you choose to hide an update from teh site, it's also hidden from AU. The converse is also true.


Regarding Drivers, Windows Update can only publish drivers that have passed the WHQL labs tests, and that the hardware vendors submit to us. We'll happily publish all the drivers that a hardware vendor provides us. Get onto your hardware manufacturer and ask them why they haven't provided driver updates through Windows Update.

The suggestion for a 'remember my selection" setting is a good one. Ultimately it's only saving you a single click, but I'll forward it on to the rest of the team for considiration in a future update.

Thanks!

seamus

ColmOT [MSFT] wrote:

Seamus, with V5, you can tell the site to ignore certain updates, so that it doesn't show them again. Additionally, if you choose to hide an update from teh site, it's also hidden from AU. The converse is also true.

Oh, so it does. I didn't look hard enough. Nice one.

kmb

Hi ColmOT [MSFT],Quick question,will xp home work on the amd 64 platform or will i need a new os?


regds kieran

ColmOT [MSFT]

KMB, the Athlon 64 platform supports running a 32bit Windows on their 64bit processor (a totally cool and exceptionally brilliant concept on AMDs part!). SO, yes, yopu can run XP Home on your 64 bit AMD processor.

However, there will not be a native 64-bit version of Windows XP Home. Only Windows XP Professional will be ported over to 64bit.

Stephen

Will there be any charge for people to upgrade their 32 bit copy of XP Pro to the 64bit version whenever a final release comes out?

ColmOT [MSFT]

I'm not privvy to this information, and it probably hasn't even been decided yet.

But one thing to consider, is that they are two distinct version of windows. Is there a charge to upgrade from Windows XP Home Edition to Windows XP Professional? The question you're asking is the same thing.

ColmOT [MSFT]

Does anyone have any more feedback on the new Windows Update website?

maxheadroom

I think you might be asking the wrong people - we're not going to spot any usability issues or anything like that. I'll point my parents at it over the weekend and let you know if they turn anything up.

nesf

Am having a bot of a problem with everytime I try to download SP2, it returns a failed download responce. This has happened in the past, it seems that if the dwnload for an update fails once, then it continues failing. Is there a way to reset this, or am i missing something terribly obvious?

RobertFoster

nesf wrote:

Am having a bot of a problem with everytime I try to download SP2, it returns a failed download responce. This has happened in the past, it seems that if the dwnload for an update fails once, then it continues failing. Is there a way to reset this, or am i missing something terribly obvious?

We are currently experiencing a high level of demand for Windows XP Service Pack 2, so please check back later for availability. We apologize for any inconvenience.

Might be your problem.

nesf

hmm, but I also suffed the exact same problem with two "critical updates", so I don't think it's a demand problem.

lukin

Slightly off-topic but I need to know something:
I've just ordered XP Pro Service Pack 2 on CD and I am just wondering if when I install it, it means I don't have to download the updates?
I am being prompted to but they are about 30 MB in total and I only have dial-up.

Celt

I find it a lot less intuitive then the old version, for example, in the old version I just clicked "scan for updates" and it then showed all applicable updates in the different sections, now it takes 5 or 6 pages and several scans to get the same result.

Dun

lukin wrote:

Slightly off-topic but I need to know something:
I've just ordered XP Pro Service Pack 2 on CD and I am just wondering if when I install it, it means I don't have to download the updates?
I am being prompted to but they are about 30 MB in total and I only have dial-up.

Most of them will probably be covered by SP2, but remember that you're not protected against the bugs fixed by those patches until you install SP2, and check with WU that there are no more patches you need.

ColmOT [MSFT]

Celt, thanks for your feedback, but you should only have to scan once to get offered all updates.

Are you seeing something other than this?

If you select Custom Install from the welcome page, this will perform a scan and after it completes scanning you should see 3 nodes on the left hand side - REview high priroity updates; select optional software updates & select optional hardware updates.

Edit: An express install will do the same scan, but it will automatically install the critical updates as well with no extra user input.

Dingatron

Regarding Drivers, Windows Update can only publish drivers that have passed the WHQL labs tests, and that the hardware vendors submit to us. We'll happily publish all the drivers that a hardware vendor provides us. Get onto your hardware manufacturer and ask them why they haven't provided driver updates through Windows Update.

ColmOT this is true but as an example. ATI CATALYSTdrivers are now WHQL'ed up to 4.8's as of this month. Is it not up to MS to add them to the driver updates after they have WHQL'd them? Seems silly that the vendor must resubmit them again to MS? If this is the case its no wonder that driver updates for a lot of devices are so out of date.

ColmOT [MSFT]

Yes, that's true - they must be resubmitted by the hardware vendor.

We don't own the drivers, they are the intellectual property of the hardware company, so we cannot publish them to Windows Update without the hardware vendor submitting them to us to do so.

Celt

ColmOT [MSFT] wrote:

Celt, thanks for your feedback, but you should only have to scan once to get offered all updates.

Are you seeing something other than this?

If you select Custom Install from the welcome page, this will perform a scan and after it completes scanning you should see 3 nodes on the left hand side - REview high priroity updates; select optional software updates & select optional hardware updates.

Edit: An express install will do the same scan, but it will automatically install the critical updates as well with no extra user input.

Err yes, sorry, seems I overstated it

Custom Install -> Scanning

Review Other Updates -> Scanning

Not as bad as I remembered it, probably thanks to you showing me how to do it quickly

Duffman

Windows update won't work for me since it was updated. When I click either "express" or custom "install" it returns

[Error number: 0x80244018] and suggests that I look at several "helpful" resources. Trawling through the MS support databases is painful and unhelpful. People are asking how to resolve the error but no answers are given..

I've tried manually removing all the WU temp files and the update engine DLLs.. The engine downloads again and the same error appears... Using XP Pro btw..

:rolleyes:

SantaHoe

I think the last time I used windows update I had a funny experience... where windows update needed something like vbscript installed in order to run, yet there was a message box somewhere else in windows telling me to run windows update in order to get it.
This was a few years ago though.

ColmOT [MSFT]

Duffman, are you sure that the error code is 0x80244018?

It is an SUS_E_PT_HTTP_STATUS_FORBIDDEN Http status 403 - request forbidden error.

Can you send me the
%systemroot%\SoftwareDistribution\ReportingEvents.log
file please so I can have a look and try to determine what's going on.

Duffman

Colm, this is the log file:

{9A8C0578-3F4A-4A67-B5FC-31CF6A3173C3} 1 2004-08-23 22:45:23+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{628CF350-D129-4BB1-AC3F-B36B2B8E9651} 2 2004-08-25 21:31:14+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{53DC6F3E-6CFA-4EBD-AB30-A3D4E26DAD51} 3 2004-08-25 21:32:21+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{9E0102BD-B163-496C-B91F-EB69A06257EC} 4 2004-08-25 21:34:25+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{DE66FC38-3337-41E4-B844-8866F71EAA75} 5 2004-08-25 21:34:36+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{A23FA088-ACFE-4C0E-B124-F6F2502622AD} 6 2004-08-25 21:35:16+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{30A8B535-6AE3-492D-B922-83D99729D41D} 7 2004-08-25 21:36:39+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{DCB80987-5071-45D7-947B-F281F9A6D74D} 8 2004-08-25 21:39:55+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{E7F40D4A-7722-41CA-8169-647953EEB77C} 9 2004-08-25 21:46:51+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{716C2065-39BD-4A8B-856B-281D8AE0DFAC} 10 2004-08-25 21:53:11+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{DF6467A9-66EC-44B6-8EB1-8A3AB1AA2120} 11 2004-08-25 21:58:28+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{8A8B9EA4-FFCD-471F-B038-DBA65131BBD9} 12 2004-08-25 22:04:30+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{9B30449A-6367-4A04-83B0-9619DA8450CE} 13 2004-08-25 22:06:15+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{7B061253-AB9B-4A26-9E53-CFDAED6C082B} 14 2004-08-25 22:07:20+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{01B7FAEC-822D-431D-B10C-42989752E499} 15 2004-08-26 01:29:46+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 CDM Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{D08D4D86-CF6E-4976-A85E-7911D43D1C57} 16 2004-08-26 01:55:23+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 CDM Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{E3F5D03D-CCE7-4067-A0BD-A8190DA022B1} 17 2004-08-26 18:37:26+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 CDM Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{C5A50B5A-F041-4439-B515-51EDD20075B7} 18 2004-08-29 19:47:07+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 CDM Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{0E2F0A25-6CE7-438B-82E8-C04E8BAAE8CC} 19 2004-08-29 19:47:49+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 CDM Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018
{F0AC3C1B-DA06-4C1C-B3D3-5677C6868ECC} 20 2004-08-31 22:46:41+0100 1 148 101 {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} 0 80244018 WindowsUpdate Failure Software Synchronization Error: Agent failed detecting with reason: 0x80244018

Thanks for your help.

ColmOT [MSFT]

Hi Duffman, thanks for the info.

Try this and see if it makes any difference:

open a cmd prompt, and type
net stop wuauserv

Rename the %systemroot%\SoftwareDistribution folder to %systemroot%\SoftwareDistribution-BAK

Then in your cmd window, type
net start wuauserv

Let me know if that makes any difference.

Duffman

Problem persists I'm afraid... odd...

ColmOT [MSFT]

Duffman, are you behind a proxy server?

Duffman

Nope, have tried direct connection and through several proxies.. same result.