Stealth - how to complain.

Hobbes

DD has backtracked on some of the proposed changes but here is the form letter below for your complaint.

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From: Spub
ID: q/Ettdyh4cE
Date: March 11, 1999 at 08:55 am

Subject: Rogue Campaign


OK, we all know now that the rogues are once again going to be scr*wed with the new features for stealth (currently on Test Center). The question is, what can we do about it?

I am starting a campaign to get the proposed changes for stealth, changed.

I work for Xsploitz.com, so I am able to get my message across to thousands of viewers everyday. We can fight this but the only way it will happen is if every rogue participates in this campaign.

My proposal is for ever person who wishes to participate, goto the bottom page of Xsploitz.com and copy the e-mail I've written and send it off to support@owo.com

Please, if you care for the best player class in all of UO, take 1 minute and send off the e-mail.

Or, just copy the following and e-mail it to support@owo.com:

UO Support and Designers,

I am really disappointed with the recent changes to stealth (currently on Test Center). Stealth was definitely the best skill ever given to rogues, but now, it has basically become useless with the proposed changes.

Come on, you guys are being way to hard on rogues! It's hard enough to make a living as a rogue, but now it's going to be impossible. What do you expect us to do if we are in a crowded dungeon (monsters and players), and need to use stealth to get away from a very nasty dragon? We won't be able to stealth and we'll die.

Though, I can deal with that aspect of stealth by avoiding the situation completely, but the two that are completely outrageous are, "snooping reveals you", and, "pass through someone while using stealth, reveals you."

Shouldn't it be:
-If you are using stealth and fail to snoop, then you become visible? (Same thing if you're just hidden)

-If you're in a building/player house and you pass through someone, then you become unhidden (that would be extremely fair, even I would agree to that) Side-note: To top it off, a player can just use detect hidden and uncover any rogue in their house.

-Moves you can take while using stealth are 15 (max)

-Success rate depends on how many people are within a certain amount of spaces also need to be reduced or just taken out completely. (How will we be able to escape any attacker if that is implemented?)

It doesn't make sense to me why you would take this course of action. A rogue needs to be able to defend him/herself and the only way it's possible, is to run like crazy and use stealth & hide a lot. The proposed features simply will not work. If the changes go in, the entire rogue class will die.

Mages have meditation, and they're able to pump out an e-bolt every couple of seconds. Fighters have poisoned weapons, which delivers devastating damages. Archers have super, powerful bows and xbows, that allow them to kill a person in seconds without the worry of taking damage. Why do you not let the rogues keep their unique advantages? I think it's only fair.

The problem is not with the rogues abusing the features, it's that you have never asked us what we would like added into the rogue class. All you did was say, "Here it is, test it." and a couple days later it was public.

Yes, it's lack of communication. We (rogues) make tons of suggestions on UOVault and COB everyday. I think I speak for every single rogue in UO when I say, "You must reconsider the upcoming rogue changes and take a look at our suggestions." Take a look at the suggestions made at the beginning of the e-mail, there's three to start you off.

Please pass this along to the applicable person(s) in charge of development.

I'm looking forward to your response.

Thanks for your time,
A Concerned Rogue

Venom

I have to agree with DD on this one.Stealth is way overpowered atm and i am glad the changes are going in.Getting stuff stole from you in a town is one thing,but having your house looted by some scumbag(a person I consider to be worse than a pk)sucks big time and will only make people leave the game and **** everyone else off.I know it will make the game harder for theives but a theives live is ment to be hard.Far to many people are crying because their golden chicken has stopped laying eggs.

Rev Hellfire

[snip] said all already below

[This message has been edited by Rev Hellfire (edited 11-03-99).]

Hobbes

Spoken from someone who hasn't a clue Venom

First Stealth currently is not that great. The only reason people think it's too powerful is because they don't know how to combat it.

1) House looting.
Unless you own a tower or a castle and has been overrun by 30 or so thieves, then the only way you can get to loot a house is if the person is thick.

Bind this to a macro

USESKILL->Detect hidden
SAY -> "Remove thyself"

Detect hidden has a 100% chance of detecting someone in a house you own or are friended to, the other command will boot them out.

2. Pickpocketing.
Once you start to steal you automatically become visable. If the rogue tries to steal anything more then 2 stone in weight they automatically get guard whacked. 2 stones and under there is a good chance that guards can be called. So if you see someone appear out of no where just say "guards" a couple of times to be on the safe side, and when they get whacked the stuff automatically returns to you.

Also if the thief steals it and gets away, they are now perma-gray to you. That means even if they come back in a disguise you can see they are gray and whack the cr@p out of them.

Lastly a pickpocket happening where someone has LOS (line of sight) on the thief has a near 0% of working.

3. Snooping.
Snooping was the only skill that meant that a thief had a chance of living after a steal. Because of this we have to blind steal, which means there's a good chance that we will grab a heavy item or end up stealing a sewing kit and having half the bank on our tail as we try to escape.

4. Fight or flight.
For a proper thief. Fighting is totally out of the question. Our only advantage is stealth. When someone attacks we can't hide we have to loose them first. Once we are hidden we have to stand still like a muppet for 11 seconds before we can stealth.

During that time, anyone with tracking skill and a reveal spell can find us. If this section where anyone near you causes stealth to fail then it's a piece of junk.

The only advantages I've found in stealth is that I've been able to walk into areas that a tank mage would have problems getting into. I've seen some really nice places now Also for listening in on conversations.

Oh yea, once your a thief you know who the other thieves are or how to spot one pretty much straight away. Even with my disguise kit it's hard for me to bank stuff without at least one person hassling me.

A thief if luckly might steal something off someone actually worth something (key/deed/rune). A PK kills the person and steals all thief stuff as well as thier fame. So don't tell me thieves have it better because they don't

Rev Hellfire

Seems to me that your problem with thieves appeared after your boat was looted.
Welcome to the joy's of Pk'ers.
If you knew a bit about the thief character you'd know that they dont murder because they get kicked out of the thieves guild for a week. You got looted cos some Oooo wannabe thought he'd play like his heroes.

As for thieving in general its not easy in a crowded area now, to many ppl looking, reducing your chances, if you couldn't even stealth you'd never be able to get into position to steal much less get away.

As for thieves been worse than PK'er lets look at the fact's, most thieves work as a pair or alone against characters who could top them in their sleep, unlike say Oooo members who go around butchering ppl for the hell of it who have no chance. As Hobbes has said the amount you can steal is limited and open to chance, Pk's will instead strip you of everything. Have had your weapons, armor, regents, etc etc stolen by a thief and left with nothing as they stand there going 'ha ha newbie' ect. Thought not.

As for way this may seem just a tad personal, it may be due to fact I got killed last night by some of your good PK scum buddie, while fighting a ettin. They though it would be funny to paralysis me, and then help the ettin who didnt really need it. And then loot me clean.


[This message has been edited by Rev Hellfire (edited 11-03-99).]

Venom

I lost sod all when my boat got looted as I didnt have much there.You lads lost more than me.If someone steals from me in town at least I have the fun of trying to chase them down and killing them But the idea of having looting really makes my blood boil and I have no respect for the people who do it and consider them vermin.So if you lads every loot someone's house DONT TELL ME about it as I will probely kill you on sight for at least a month considering all the insults you have heaped on my defenceless little tank mage who only helps out others,I should kill you for a month anyways As for my pk mates wacking you I will tell them to stop,but stop calling them names in town,as when I see someone who has given me grief in town,I always frag their ass.I tend to wait till there really low on health,I dont really need to but it winds them up even more

Rev Hellfire

I'm sure your mates dont even know who I am anyway Dont feature in the grand scheme of things does poor little jaynar

Hobbes

Prehaps when your PK mates stop whacking locally then maybe stop calling them names.

Anyhow I've long since given up that, I just ignore them even if they are asking me a question. Some of the fools are on permanent ignore after trying to flood the sh!t out of me. In fact the last insult I gave out was to Bois and his buddy Hope who were doing a Blue Corpse Blue PK trick in the bank. And it basically revolved around calling them idiots.

As for house looting, it's no different what you's do, only going for bigger fish. To house loot is next to impossible unless you happen to steal the master key from them or they are so thick that they don't check thier house. I'm sure none of Ooo have looted anyone's house?... yea right...

Myself and Rev are just honest traders and you'll be happy to know that if we do take anything from Ooo we will give you a rune to our Vendor where you can get it all back (for a nominal fee of course).

We are still setting up our th... traders guild and it should be up and running soon. The only good thing about the rogue character is that it is lethal when used in groups.

Rev Hellfire

Hobbes now that I've got my shopkeeper up and running, I'll be out at the wholesalers tonight if your around.

Hobbes

yea I should be although maybe late

Been converting most of what I got into cash. Found some macro this morning and emptied his whole pouch (like he was just asking to be robbed). Which made about 1K slim pickings really, but not bad for a laggy days work.

Venom

For two muppets that complain about my guild using uoe,sly tatic's and exploits,the both of use are doing the same thing by using little 3rd party proggies to help you steal.The use of any such program than gives you an advantage over another player or that is not given the all clear by osi is cheating,so you two are just as bad as all the pk scum your always complaining about.

Hobbes

*ahem* The only tool I use to steal is my fingers. You can't macro it. You could with Lasttarget then blind steal but that's illegal and doesn't get a high a stat gain.

We don't use any third party tools when playing.

My last posting should of read "Found some macroer this morning" not a macro, but some fool sitting in an area away from the guards with a totally full pack.

We don't use exploits in fact the two of us get whacked quite a lot in town which is why we make more money from the dungeons (thieves get more rare treasure spawns then other players), as for sly tricks well that comes with the job, but I wouldn't put BlooPK'ing in the same catergory as sly tricks. Lame tricks more like.

Hobbes