The Olympics - Who Give a Toss?

mike65

So the games are here...so what!

Mike.

Gordon

If I wasn't living in Greece I'd probably hold the same view.

Sparks

Looking forward to the shooting sports, but then that's my sport so it's to be expected. But the rest of the Games? Not really bothered. Some of the "minority sports" like archery and fencing will be fun to watch, but everything else is basicly professional athletics, and there's this overwhelming sense that you need a pharmacy to be in with a chance at a medal

Big Ears

for some reason the soccer starts before the opening cermoney , and I really enjoyed the 4 games today .

It was great to see Iraq beat Portugal 4-2 , an amazing achievemnet for a country in turmoil , and no doubt they will qualify for the quarter finals .

One thing which kind of diminishes soccer in the Olyimpics is the U 23 rule (although teams are allowed 3 players over 23) . If its goin to be U 23 fair enough (the soccer season is just starting in most European countries and the clubs need they're players , whom the majority of would be over 23) but having 3 players over the age is kinda a sham in ways .

I dont like the way soccer has strted before the opening cermoney but it was very exciting .(by the way the games are on Eurosport for soccer.)

I love to match the track and field events in the Olyimpics , but not so much the other ones ( besides soccer) .

all in all , who gives toss ? : I do

Chonaic

well something to keep my telly turned on anyway.

aidan_walsh

mike65 wrote:

So the games are here...so what!

Mike.

So we get to see the last great legitimate tradition perfected by Nazi Germany...

The torch run!!

Wikipedia says:
The fire was reintroduced at the Olympics in 1928, and it has been part of the modern Olympic Games ever since. The modern torch relay was introduced for the 1936 Summer Olympics in Berlin.

Trojan

You gotta be kidding, it's the Olympics - why wouldn't people be excited? It'd be a very sad day if people reading the Sports board aren't excited by the olympic games.

Speaking as a sports addict, I can't wait

simu

Ah, they're great. I love watching athletics and it doesn't get any more exciting than at the Olympics!

damnyanks

WAtched the boxing after the Dublin game (Lets not talk about that ) How is the scoring worked for that? Is it the judges scoring points for each boxer or does it depend on where someone is hit?

Big Ears

puches have to be hit with the knuckle of the glove and (I think) 3 judges have to score a punch within 1 second for the punch to count as a point .

Well done Andy Lee , he's got some tough competition but he could find himself getting a medal and going on to the Proffesionel game .

All punches (using the Kuckle of the glove) have to be above the waist , and from the front . (no punching in the back or rabbit punches.)

Thats pretty much it I think .

I am more used to proffesionel boxing so some of this information may be incorrect .

gandalf

Yep watched some of it today. Especially enjoyed the Womens Beach Volleyball

alleepally

Sadly I have to say that I look at some of the events and wonder is it all the competitors own endeavours, or is it enhanced by drugs. That takes the sheen off the Olympics for me along with the stranglehold by the likes of McMurder and the big soft drinks manufacturer who won't let people into the stadium with a competing brand. What a load of toss.

Cabaal

I watched the opening part of it yesterday and it was well done I have to say, missed Ireland coming out into the stadium.
As for the whole thing, I was in Crete a few weeks back and they had banners and stuff everyone,
Looks really nice tbh

Sparks

Sadly I have to say that I look at some of the events and wonder is it all the competitors own endeavours, or is it enhanced by drugs.

[brokenrecord]Target Shooting. Seventeen events, more egalatarian than any other olympic sport, one of the largest and oldest events in the olympics, and there are no drugs that will boost your score. [/brokenrecord]

Gordon

Opening ceremony was great! The guy that directed that was a new theatre director, quite young too, and I think he did an amazing job. Interesting phallic flame too.

As for the doping, there is something happening right now which is that two of the best runners in Greece didn't show up for their drugs test and have subsequently dropped out of the Olympics (due to a very well timed motorbike accident). Sure there are people using drugs but at least the Olympics are doing random tests at an hours notice.

I preferred the bikini clad Greek basketball game mesel' gandalf

mike65

gandalf wrote:

Yep watched some of it today. Especially enjoyed the Womens Beach Volleyball

da! I misssed it?? Still I did see Sharon Davies in a nice tight top!

Mike.

Gordon

Though Sparks, are there no drugs that can enhance your nervous stability? Nothing that makes a shuddery handed person become less shuddery handed?

Sparks

There are Gordon, but the side effects do more damage than the problem. Shooting's a very fine balance of psychological factors and physiological mechanisms, don't forget, and with our current knowlege of pharmaceuticals, it's like tuning a piano with a club hammer and cotton wool in your ears.

gandalf

mike65 wrote:

da! I misssed it?? Still I did see Sharon Davies in a nice tight top!

Mike.

MMmmmmmm Sharon Davies

Yep saw that, god damn she is one fine woman !!!

Housi

It's interseting that people have a sudden interest in sports that they couldn't have cared less about since the last Olympics.

skittishkitten

I enjoy watching the Olympics . Of course there are some sports that I enjoy more than others and I won't stayed glued to the TV , but I'm happy they are on and I will watch them

Amz

I'm a bit of a sports nut so the Olympics is always a highlight for me.

Already the swimming is proving very exciting and I thoroughly enjoyed the competition yesterday. Michael Phelps winning his first Olympic gold in the 400 IM with a new World and Olympic performance. Ian Thorpe and Grant Hackett (Mmm... Grant Hackett) in the 400 Free'.

Looking forward muchly to tonights' 200 Free final when Phelps will face Thorpe as they both attempt to secure their second gold, Phelps is attempting to go one better than Mark Spitz' record of 7 golds tonights race could be the one that costs Phelps that dream.

I'm also looking forward to the track and field and the rowing.

The fact that the games are quite unpredictable is something which attracts me to them. You can never really be sure that someone is going to win or even place. We've seen that from an Irish perspective with Sonia O'Sullivan back in Atlanta.

monument

Trojan wrote:

You gotta be kidding, it's the Olympics - why wouldn't people be excited? It'd be a very sad day if people reading the Sports board aren't excited by the olympic games.

Speaking as a sports addict, I can't wait

There's more then sports addicts at the corrupt event that is the Olympics.

Even if I was into sports in a big way, the Olympics would be the symbol of wrong with sports today.

Amz

Oh right... coz noone takes drugs in soccer/GAA etc. :rolleyes:

I can't believe you're that naieve

Sparks

[broken record]There's no drug problem in target shooting[/broken record]

therecklessone

gandalf wrote:

MMmmmmmm Sharon Davies

Yep saw that, god damn she is one fine woman !!!

She has a fine set of baby dinners on her.

gandalf

therecklessone wrote:

She has a fine set of baby dinners on her.

Was disappointed today though, Sharon wasn't dressed as well as she was yesterday. Must send a letter of complaint to the BBC

Amz

Sparks wrote:

[broken record]There's no drug problem in target shooting[/broken record]

I'm sorry, but that's arse!

therecklessone

gandalf wrote:

Was disappointed today though, Sharon wasn't dressed as well as she was yesterday.

Maybe some of these will cheer you up?

Agent Smith

watched the opening ceromey, havent seen much of it really,


(rugby should be in it, tbh)

Sparks

Amz wrote:

I'm sorry, but that's arse!

Nope. Thing is, you see, there aren't any drugs that boost performance and until genetic doping becomes a reality, there won't be. Target shooting is such a demanding task on mind-body control and coordination, that trying to boost performance with our current knowlege of pharmaceuticals is like trying to tune a piano with a lump hammer.

That's not to say there haven't been incidents in the past - about twenty years ago, the Norwegian team were using beta blockers for example - but double-blind trials have shown that the side effects for the various drugs available have detrimental effects that outweigh the benefits. Beta blockers, for example, block the effects of adreneline but the side effects include wearyness, digestive fun, and most importantly for a sport that centers on standing perfectly still, dizzyness. And things like steroids just give you bigger muscles so that a muscle twitch can throw off your aim even further than someone with little muscles; EPO affects how fast you can dump oxygen from your blood to the muscles which is a bad thing when you need a longer delivery time rather than a shorter one; and most of the rest are designed for enhancing performance in sports that depend on power or speed or endurance rather than those that depend on consistency and control.

Which is a state of affairs I'm personally rather fond of.

Amz

agent smith wrote:

watched the opening ceromey, havent seen much of it really,


(rugby should be in it, tbh)

Eh... rugby isn't played in enough countries for it to be viable.

monument

Amz wrote:

Oh right... coz noone takes drugs in soccer/GAA etc. :rolleyes:

I can't believe you're that naieve

Hardly, it’s just blatantly more obvious, and the level of corruption involved with the origination of it is just ridiculous.

(BTW If I was to enforce my full level of realism on myself I’d be one sad completely untrusting git)

gandalf

therecklessone wrote:

Maybe some of these will cheer you up?

Thanks for that, site bookmarked for further ahem study

ecksor

it’s just blatantly more obvious

Are you saying that the level of abuse isn't the problem, it's how obvious things are that is the problem? We could petition wada to stop all testing if that would help makes things less obvious for you?

Amz

monument wrote:

Hardly, it’s just blatantly more obvious, and the level of corruption involved with the origination of it is just ridiculous.

The reason substance abuse is not yet as obvious in GAA is because up 'til recently they refused to allow their players be tested. Its only a matter of time before we see evidence in our own amateur sports.

As for corruption not being as obvious?!
Don't make me laugh

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

monument

Amz wrote:

The reason substance abuse is not yet as obvious in GAA is because up 'til recently they refused to allow their players be tested. Its only a matter of time before we see evidence in our own amateur sports.

As for corruption not being as obvious?!
Don't make me laugh

On the drug taking, I compeatly agree with why it's not as obvious, the reason I metioned it in the first place was just a piss-take-spin on what Trojan said about being a sports addict.

Maybe corruption is as wide spread as it is in the Olympics, maybe not, someone involved in the GAA would know better then me.

However, my point of it being so obvious in the Olympics generally still stands, but I suppose not that many people have seen the recent BBC documentary and just remember past events, like what happened in the US. Others don’t care and feel it’s acceptable, then there are others who are even more naive then me - if that's possable.

ecksor wrote:

Are you saying that the level of abuse isn't the problem, it's how obvious things are that is the problem? We could petition wada to stop all testing if that would help makes things less obvious for you?

No, not at all – although that possible is how it is coming across. The problem currently in the GAA warrants testing (which is coming in, right?), the problem with the Olympic warrants making the playing field equal, one way or another.

ecksor

monument wrote:

Maybe corruption is as wide spread as it is in the Olympics, maybe not, someone involved in the GAA would know better then me.

How much more involved in the Olympic games are you than the GAA?

monument wrote:

However, my point of it being so obvious in the Olympics generally still stands,

What I see is that every time the situation improves in any given sport we end up with a lot of positive tests (USADA catching the THG abusers last year for example - The biggest problem is what we don't know about, and I hope that Sparks is right that this doesn't include his favorite sport) and the general public suddenly starts to make up its mind based upon a mixture of tabloid journalists, out of touch sports writers and former athletes with all sorts of spins and agendas to wade through. If the situation never improved we'd actually have far less scandal and things would look so much better.

monument wrote:

but I suppose not that many people have seen the recent BBC documentary and just remember past events, like what happened in the US. Others don’t care and feel it’s acceptable, then there are others who are even more naive then me.

Ahhh, you saw a documentary. Sorry, I didn't realise how well informed you were about the state of drugs in sport. Something happened in the US? Lots of things happen in the US, can you be more specific?

If I'm sceptical that you know what the state of drugs in sport is, then it's because I am. Quite frankly, nobody knows exactly what the state of drugs in sport is. Nor is there a generic conspiracy that you can throw sweeping statements across. The situations vary based on country to country, sport to sport, training group to training group. Cultures and what is and isn't acceptable vary a hell of a lot between them all and very few people get to look closely at more than one or two of each.

By all means present the facts and let's discuss them. Let's discuss the underfunded drugs testing facilities. Let's discuss the false-negatives and the false-positives. Let's discuss what can and can't be tested for. Let's discuss what we do know about and what might exist that we don't know about. Let's discuss the cover ups that have gone on at the highest levels of some of the most powerful sporting organisations in the world. Let's discuss the leaks that undermine due process in testing. Let's discuss the control and process problems that do the same. Every now and then we might even discuss the big wins for the testers and re-evaluate the situation.

If you're not big into sport as you say then fine, it's basically a symptom of the PR problem that various sports and the olympics as a collective ideal has, which would be best helped by just not looking for problems as I say, but that would not be the right thing to do. It still irks me that people can be so quick to throw a broad brush sweep across so many competitors in so many disciplines who aren't symbols of corruption or cheating. The problems are there and are being combatted to various degrees in various areas. You refer to others who don't care and think that it's more acceptable but if everyone adopts the dismissive and cynical attitude that you display then it might as well be acceptable for all the difference it makes or for all the caring it represents.

Amz

Sparks wrote:

Nope. Thing is, you see, there aren't any drugs that boost performance and until genetic doping becomes a reality, there won't be. Target shooting is such a demanding task on mind-body control and coordination, that trying to boost performance with our current knowlege of pharmaceuticals is like trying to tune a piano with a lump hammer.

That's not to say there haven't been incidents in the past - about twenty years ago, the Norwegian team were using beta blockers for example - but double-blind trials have shown that the side effects for the various drugs available have detrimental effects that outweigh the benefits. Beta blockers, for example, block the effects of adreneline but the side effects include wearyness, digestive fun, and most importantly for a sport that centers on standing perfectly still, dizzyness. And things like steroids just give you bigger muscles so that a muscle twitch can throw off your aim even further than someone with little muscles; EPO affects how fast you can dump oxygen from your blood to the muscles which is a bad thing when you need a longer delivery time rather than a shorter one; and most of the rest are designed for enhancing performance in sports that depend on power or speed or endurance rather than those that depend on consistency and control.
.

Have you got a references for this?

I'd be interested in reading the findings of these trials.

monument

ecksor wrote:

Ahhh, you saw a documentary. Sorry, I didn't realise how well informed you were about the state of drugs in sport. Something happened in the US? Lots of things happen in the US, can you be more specific?

If I'm sceptical that you know what the state of drugs in sport is, then it's because I am. Quite frankly, nobody knows exactly what the state of drugs in sport is. Nor is there a generic conspiracy that you can throw sweeping statements across. The situations vary based on country to country, sport to sport, training group to training group. Cultures and what is and isn't acceptable vary a hell of a lot between them all and very few people get to look closely at more than one or two of each.

By all means present the facts and let's discuss them. Let's discuss the underfunded drugs testing facilities. Let's discuss the false-negatives and the false-positives. Let's discuss what can and can't be tested for. Let's discuss what we do know about and what might exist that we don't know about. Let's discuss the cover ups that have gone on at the highest levels of some of the most powerful sporting organisations in the world. Let's discuss the leaks that undermine due process in testing. Let's discuss the control and process problems that do the same. Every now and then we might even discuss the big wins for the testers and re-evaluate the situation.

If you're not big into sport as you say then fine, it's basically a symptom of the PR problem that various sports and the olympics as a collective ideal has, which would be best helped by just not looking for problems as I say, but that would not be the right thing to do. It still irks me that people can be so quick to throw a broad brush sweep across so many competitors in so many disciplines who aren't symbols of corruption or cheating. The problems are there and are being combatted to various degrees in various areas. You refer to others who don't care and think that it's more acceptable but if everyone adopts the dismissive and cynical attitude that you display then it might as well be acceptable for all the difference it makes or for all the caring it represents.

Sorry, about not making a clear separation when referring to corruption - I was not talking about drugs.


Timeline: Olympics corruption scandal (1999 - 98)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/297030.stm

On the Panorama program...

Buying the Games
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/3937425.stm

What the Papers say - Buying the Games
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/3534718.stm

IOC member 'selling votes'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/olympics_2012/3531456.stm

ecksor

monument wrote:

Sorry, about not making a clear separation when referring to corruption - I was not talking about drugs.

If you're not talking about drugs then it would be clearer if you didn't post three times about them on the thread.

monument

On my first post the text 'corrupt event that is the Olympics' links to a Google page with every link on the subject of the corruption of the IOC.

I was under the impression Amz had separated the two topics I was typing about, so I felt there was no need to make it clearer. I profoundly apologies for not making it such, and will revaluate future posts accordingly.

Bloody backup time – I even managed to keep myself awake until it was finished – you deserver a response and an apologies for my stupidly, and lack of foresight. Good morning.

Hairy Homer

alleepally wrote:

Sadly I have to say that I look at some of the events and wonder is it all the competitors own endeavours, or is it enhanced by drugs.

Well, like Gandalf I particularly enjoyed the Women's Beach Volleyball, and hope that they never try to ban the use of Johnson's Baby Oil to enhance their, ahem, performance.

PH01

just back from me holidays so I missed the opening (my favorite part of any olympics) as we had no TV. But, besides that I'm not excited about the Games as I use to be.
Maybe back then when I was younger you would look up to those competing and winning. But now you reckon that they're on some sort of performance enhancing drugs so you don't know if it's real anymore.
So, I'm not bothered with the Olympic Games anymore.

gobby

mike65 wrote:

So the games are here...so what!

Mike.

They dont mean much to me. Then again, I've never had much of an interest in any sport.

Amz

Sparks wrote:

Nope. Thing is, you see, there aren't any drugs that boost performance and until genetic doping becomes a reality, there won't be. Target shooting is such a demanding task on mind-body control and coordination, that trying to boost performance with our current knowlege of pharmaceuticals is like trying to tune a piano with a lump hammer.

That's not to say there haven't been incidents in the past - about twenty years ago, the Norwegian team were using beta blockers for example - but double-blind trials have shown that the side effects for the various drugs available have detrimental effects that outweigh the benefits. Beta blockers, for example, block the effects of adreneline but the side effects include wearyness, digestive fun, and most importantly for a sport that centers on standing perfectly still, dizzyness. And things like steroids just give you bigger muscles so that a muscle twitch can throw off your aim even further than someone with little muscles; EPO affects how fast you can dump oxygen from your blood to the muscles which is a bad thing when you need a longer delivery time rather than a shorter one; and most of the rest are designed for enhancing performance in sports that depend on power or speed or endurance rather than those that depend on consistency and control.

Which is a state of affairs I'm personally rather fond of.

Maybe Sparks missed my question in his excitement at the new Shooting forum so here it is again.

Would it be possible to get some references for this, as I'd be interested in reading them

Jim

Personally I couldn't have given a toss.

But this year I actually sat down and glanced at it. Found myself watching almost all of the gymnastics. Pretty impressive stuff.

Sparks

Amz wrote:

Maybe Sparks missed my question in his excitement at the new Shooting forum so here it is again.
Would it be possible to get some references for this, as I'd be interested in reading them

Didn't miss the question Amz, but I'm having trouble accessing medline to get the references for you. Mind you, they'd be in medical journals rather than on the web, so you'd need access to the journals themselves as well. Most of the stuff on the wb (like from the ISSF medical conferences) focusses on how the shooter shoots rather than the effect of drugs on that process.
Soon as I get the references, I'll post them up.

Amz

Okey dokey thanks.

mike65

Just some gratuitous pix of Ms Davies!.








Mike.