moving out vs comfort zone

LegacyUser

hi there...

so how much does it cost to live, to move out...

i never have before for various reasons...

all i see is my older siblings for example moving back home on and off cos it so expensive rent... and they've got professional jobs too

and all they seem to do is work and sleep

Selik

Rent would be about €500 per month + bills sharing in a two bed gaff or apt in or near the city. 2-5 miles from the city sharing in a 3 bed place you could expect to pay €400 + bills. Then there's food, bin charges, phonebill, TV licence and loads of other sundries to be taken into consideration when drawing up a budget. Basically you'll probably have SFA to live one and have a good time when everything that needs to be paid for IS paid for.

You will however have your independance and a true sense of what it's like to live in the "real" world.

I have the best of both worlds......

acous

Giles wrote:

I have the best of both worlds......

ooo...
eh?

Sleepy

Unless you're in a job where you're earning decent money, I wouldn't reccomend it. While still in college I moved into a 2 bed apartment in Galway with a mate for the summer and, while we had a great time, we were constantly broke as we were both only working part-time hours. Renting in Dublin is a pain in the balls. Stay at home for now, save your cash and get a decent amount of savings together to help you through your first couple of years working/ go travelling or something.

Remember, rent is dead money.

Moonbeam

If you are outside Dublin go for it.
If your in Dublin depends where you want to live etc.

Living at home has loads of perks so if you can stick it stay save and by a place!

Gordon

Moved back to PI from accomodation.
Now that's speedy service. Ta Vic.

Paulj

livin in limerick city now, rent is only 50e/week (in raheen) and its a nice fairly new house. near the college its more like 65e / week for an average house. mates of mine in dublin pay around 100e/week. food isn't too bad if you can eat at work or shop wisely and cook at home, maybe pay bout 40e/week.

LegacyUser

well money tis a part of it but motivation to move, the start living life proper thing is more important... im 25... bout time...

Sleepy

fordprefect wrote:

That is the kind of lazy thinking that gets people up to their eyes in debt.

If you stop paying your mortgage your house gets repossessed. Stop paying rent and you get evicted. What in all honesty is the difference.

The deeds are in the bank. The bank owns the house. You bought a loan and got a free house.

Either way you don't own the asset. If you have a mortgage the bank owns the house until the last payment. If you rent the landlord owns the house.

The notion that you will have an asset when you buy a house is sold to you by the same logic that Eircom shares were sold on. Tired old trusims and skewed emotional thinking that gets everyone up in a tizzy and out of pocket for no other reason than "everyone else is doing it and I should do it too"

Your home is an asset. But it isn't your asset. It's the banks. As soon as people realise that they are buying the bank assets with their blood sweat and tears we might get some logic back in the market.

Fat chance of that happening.

That's one of the stupidest posts I've ever seen. Do you own a load of properties that you're trying to rent or what?

Yes, a mortgage is a large debt, however, what you pay into it represents your share of the house, a houae is an asset, and with the Irish property market, it's an appreciating asset. While your mortgage will cost you more than you'd pay for rent for the first few years after that it'll probably cost you less. I work with people who pay less for their mortgages on three bedroom houses than I pay to rent a single room.

Rent, you pay to your landlord (or more apropriately to his bank manager), mortgage payments you pay to your own bank, thereby owning more of your property and giving you a saleable asset. Yes, were you to sell the house, you'd still have to clear the mortgage, but I think you'll find you'd have a sizeable chunk left over.

seamus

Calculate your monthly income. Calculate 30% of that.

Go to www.daft.ie and see what you'll get for that money. A lot of people's problem is that home is too comfortable, and they prefer to spend a little more money that they can't afford on a tiny bit extra luxury....

Anyone who'd just sleeping and working is going to find themselves burnt out. If you do move out, try to get a place that minimises your time spent travelling, thereby giving you more time to relax.

mudflapgirl

When I moved out it was the best thing ever for me. I knew that I had to go to work cause if I didn't I'd have no money to pay the rent and I'd be kicked out. I actually got off my ar*e and got a slightly more real job than Xtra-vision (ofc based but not much more real really - I don't buy and sell small countries before breakfast or anything)
Granted my first place was a bit crap - house share in Lucan - the girl me and himself were sharing with never went to work, took our rent money and told the landlady we weren't paying up. So when the landlady went nuts and tried to kick us out - we'd already moved out, gotton better jobs then we had and told the landlady everything yer one was doing. I think she got kicked out too. tee hee.
Second place was better but smaller - tiny flat in phisboro. €130 a week. Since then we've been moving further and further away from Dublin and getting bigger places for less money all the time. It depends on how far you're willing to travel - we both have our own transport (me car him motorbike) and don't mind the commute to where we are now, Carlow border. We have a massive 3 bed house with loads of room for €120 a week. Much better than paying more for less room.

It depends on yourself. It is possible to rent and still save for your own place, we are. If you have to motivation to do it you can. The freedom of your own place is far superior to living at home and getting grief from your parents - and generally spending more money.

The Corinthian

Other than rent (which has already been covered) there are various other costs and considerations. There are numerous additional bills to begin with, such as TV licence, ESB, NTL, Telephone and/or Internet, etc. that can easily hit €100 per month when you add them all up. Then you have your shopping, which includes not only comestibles, but also the more mundane household items that we take for granted when we live with our families; such as bleach, washing powder, toothbrushes or toilet paper. Add them all up and, along with rent, you’ve easily hit €200 per week before doing anything else.

Other considerations are whether to share with others and where to live. The former depends on both your own character and those you intend to live with, and if you can do it all the better because it can bring down the costs considerably.

Location depends on where you both work and live. You can get a place in the sticks that will cost you €200 a month less than somewhere in Dublin city centre, but that’s little comfort if you need to spend two hours plus a day commuting and a €20 taxi ride every time you want to socialize in town.

Cost wise, if you can afford to spend another €200 per week and still be saving some money, then go for it. Otherwise, get a better job.

The Corinthian

fordprefect wrote:

Your house is never your asset. You are taking all the risk on board AND buying an asset for the bank. Exactly the same as when you buy a car for the bank when you get one on HP or Lease.

Actually it is your asset and radically different to renting. You can sell your house (or car) and pay off what you owe the bank. With the current property market, you may well make a profit too. You can’t do that with rented accommodation, so your premise is false.

Of course, whether it’s a good idea to purchase in Dublin (or Ireland for that matter) rather than rent is another matter.

whosurpaddy

fordprefect wrote:

Your house is never your asset.

when you make the last payment maybe?

Sleepy

While the bank owns the majority of the house you still own a portion of it. Therefore by paying a mortgage you receive money back when you sell the house. By moving out of a rented place you get nothing back from the money you've paid to live there for the duration of the lease. Let's take a typical Dublin flat share, you pay €400 a month, that's 4,800 a year that you'll never see again.

Even if your house lost some of it's value you'd see money back. So, even if you make a loss on the property, you at least get something back. If you rent, you get nothing back. Ergo, you're better off to get a mortgage and buy your own place.

Your post was stupid in my opinion because you stated an opinion as fact. Incorrect facts. I'm from a banking family myself and have spent time in their employment too, while there's a kernel of truth in what you're saying, your obvious bitterness against your former employer has twisted your logic.

Beruthiel

fordprefect wrote:

Your house is never your asset

of course it is! :eek:
I bought my little apartment 5 years ago
I could sell it tomorrow and buy myself a little house for cash in france with the profit I'd make

!!
sleepy
you know better than to make a comment like this one!
think
before you post!

Sleepy

I've edited out the comment. Apologies for any offence caused.

Sleepy

Your share of the house is an asset. What part of that don't you understand?

You may not make money buying and selling a house in the short term, but you sure as hell lose less.

seamus

fordprefect wrote:

One tiny question. Where are the deeds? In the bank! The bank owns the house. You own the loan. This isn't difficult to grasp. Stop paying your mortgage and they kick you out. If it was an asset you would both have the deeds and nobody would be able to take it away from you bar stealing it from you.

Technically it's not an asset, but you do have assets in the form of invested money in that house. A bank can kick you out for non-payment, but you must receive your fair share of the house.
If you get evicted from an apartment, you have no assets in that apartment.

And if you buy and sell a house in the short term I.e. under 10 years you are only gambling and just paying interest to the bank. I would suggest reading up on how the rule of 78 works.

Depending on how much you pay.....If you're paying back more than your interest, then you're buying back part of your home, and investing that amount in your property.
Even in the short term, if the property appreciates, that appreciation goes to you, not to that bank. That's why a home is considered an asset for all intents and purposes.

The Corinthian

fordprefect wrote:

But you don't fool yourself into thinking you have an asset when you don't.

I don't think you understand the concept of an asset.

An asset is something of monetary value that is owned by a firm or an individual. Assets are listed on a firm's balance sheet and include tangible items such as inventories, equipment, and real estate as well as intangible items such as property rights or goodwill.

The Corinthian

seamus wrote:

Technically it's not an asset

Technically it is an asset. The mortgage is a liability. The difference is where you stand (financially).

Beruthiel

fordprefect wrote:

But you don't fool yourself into thinking you have an asset when you don't.

Did you read what I wrote on the previous page?

seamus

The Corinthian wrote:

Technically it is an asset. The mortgage is a liability. The difference is where you stand (financially).

Sorry, you're right. I checked out dictionary.com to get it clear in my head

The Corinthian

fordprefect wrote:

I understand what an asset is. So do the banks. The consumer doesn't. Thats why the banks want people to buy houses.

With all due respects, I don't think you do. You've completely ignored what I and others have said with regard to the definition of an asset, for a start.

case_sensitive

Going to add my own 2c here, though I'm sure it's what others have said, I'm going to illustrate it, hard to argue

with raw numbers:

Take the trivial example where somehow you've sold a family member to pay for the 3-10% deposit you'll need (not to

mention legal fees etc, though banks are starting to take these into accoutn in mortgage payments), you go out and

put €300,000 down on a 3-bed gaff anywhere in the greater Dublin area this year. For example:
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?search=Browse+%BB&s[area_id]=cit1&search_type=sale&id=9344

Bank or Ireland Mortgage calculator:
http://www.bankofireland.ie/html/gws/personal/buy_house/estimate_repayments.html

Let's assume you get a mortgage for €270,000, this means that in 5 years time, you and your significant other

(you'll need to find one of these too, best of luck with a mortgage on yer tod..) will have paid out €73,652.40 in

mortgage payments, give or take. F*ck's sake I hear you cry, but wait..

If you'd rented a gaff (assuming naively that the rent goes up by *only* 2% a year), over those 5 years, you'd have

paid:

€68,693 (I've done the addy-uppys but feel free to check them..

http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?search=Search+%BB&s[city_county_id]=cit1&s[area_id][0]=189&s[min_rent]=&s[max_r

ent]=&s[bedroom_number]=3&s[property_type_id]=2&s[move_in_date]=0&s[lease]=&s[furnished]=0&s[search_type]=area&searc

h_type=rental&id=277947

So, the nay sayers are feeling chuffed, no? They've saved the price of a half decent car.
Nope.

The real killer is this; house prices (natioanally) from 2001 to 2002 went up by 13.2%, from 2002 to 2003 by 13.7%,

and this year it's looking similar.

(http://www.irishlifepermanent.ie/ipm/media/pressreleases/ilpgroup/group2004/2004-01-27/ if you don't belive me).

So, the house you bought in 2004 for €300,000 will be worth, here's the beautiful part, €552,730 and change in 2009.
That's €252730 more than you paid for it, or better still, about 3.5 times the amount of mortgage you paid in the

intervening time.

So, take the guy who read this thread and bought a house, versus the guy who read a book on the rule of 78s, one is

€68K in the ****ter 5 years later with nothing to show for it, the other might have been paying an extra €100 a

month (on a 3 bed house, see the two examples), but even if he loses his job, and has to sell the house (yes, you

can..), pays back the bank the €270K, and is still a quarter of a mill to the good, even if his mortgage was paying

back only interest!!

And please, please don't say house prices are going to fall, please, because you know how many times that's happened

in Dublin since the early 1980s? Once. In 1989 or thereabouts, and you know how long it took to recover? A year.

Houses that sold for £18,000 on Lindsay Road around the corner from me 15 years ago *cannot* be had for less than

€700,000 now. There's no denying it, it's going to appreciate, and it's going to appreciate a *LOT*.

So, if you can afford it (I can't), buy a house. Really.

Meh

case_sensitive wrote:

And please, please don't say house prices are going to fall, please, because you know how many times that's happened in Dublin since the early 1980s? Once. In 1989 or thereabouts, and you know how long it took to recover? A year.

Houses that sold for £18,000 on Lindsay Road around the corner from me 15 years ago *cannot* be had for less than €700,000 now. There's no denying it, it's going to appreciate, and it's going to appreciate a *LOT*.

Disco Stu: Did you know that disco record sales were up 400% for the year ending 1976?
If these trends continue... A-y-y-y!

In other words, blindly extrapolating current trends into the indefinite future is not a very sound basis on which to make decisions.

Paladin

Well even if house prices dont continue to grow at that trend his point still stands, though with the mortgage/house owner gaining by less (except in the unlikely event of a property crash which is not going to happen in the next few years without a war involving Ireland).

Sleepy

House prices will invariably slow off, though i can't see them dropping. With our society ensuring that Dublin is the only place to find decent work as a graduate, the population of Dublin (and it's environs) continues to grow, creating more demand which isn't being met at a fast enough rate (and won't be because it's not in the property developer's best interests to do so). Without researching the figures of this, I think it's pretty safe to say that even if the country hits recession, house prices won't be falling all that massively. And, even if they DID, all you'd have to do is ride out the storm by staying in the same house for a few years.

Typedef

Case 1: You rent, you pay rent.. suddenly you stop paying rent, the landlord evicts you.

Case 2: You mortgage, you pay similar monthly fees, you miss a payment, you go into arrears... it takes *ages* of arrears to become evicted... eventually you still get evicted.

Where neither case leads to an eviction because of default of payment, case 2 leads you to a place where you eventually *own* what you're effectively renting.

So you're renting from yourself and paying a percentage permium to the bank.

Case closed, in 20 years Case 1 *still* doesn't own a property.... line a landlord's pockets for the rest of your life if it makes you feel good fordprefect...

bump

LegacyUser

lol, this thread went to hell and back, I'm sure the original poster knows all about what an asset is now even though he never asked, am amazed to see Beruthiel participating in this soooo off topic argument

Victor

My, what a load of biased claptrap.

This thread was started by someone looking for renting advice, not an economics lesson. I realise they aren't completely separate, but I think it has being taken a little too far.

Moving out is a big step in life and it helps give people reality check and lets them mature better. That said it can be expensive, especially if living alone and not being able to share bills (electricity bill for 2 people might be only 10-20% more than a bill for one person).

As an experiment renting would be cheaper than buying, however, longterm there are disadvantages.

Sleepy

Well said, Victor. It does make people grow up a lot alright.

Beruthiel

Sleepy wrote:

Well said, Victor. It does make people grow up a lot alright.

not only does it make you grow up but the freedom to do as you please when you please how you please is fantastic!

no more comments like
"what time did you get in last night at?"

ChipZilla

twixt wrote:

well money tis a part of it but motivation to move, the start living life proper thing is more important... im 25... bout time...

You're 25 and still living with your mum and dad? When they go to bed at night they probably say to each other: "When in god's name is he going to get his own place?".You're damn right it's time to move out. Either that or you'll end up like Daniel O'Donnell or something...