Song i Wrote "Woeful Ireland"

Fenian

Hiya lads, I'm a newbie here but i thought i'd show ye a song i wrote, remarks welcome...

Woeful Ireland

So gather all ye true men,
And listen to my song.
It's a song about my country,
And all her woeful wrongs.

As I hang upon the scaffold,
I think of good ole days.
Of 1916 and the freedom that it paved.
Ireland united, Republican and true.
As I hang from the scaffold i watch the woeful view.

I've heard the words of Wolfe Tone,
I've heard the words of Pearse.
I've read about 98" and hearts that pikes did pierce.
But those brave men are dead and gone,
All thats left is the memory,
And the proud tradition of insurrection
Is plain for all to see.

So watch the houses burning and hear the Armalite.
Think about the dead men and their families woeful plight.
Now all we see are red flames upon the horizan tall.
And all we hear is anguish from the childrens woeful ball.

The slow death march at funerals.
The balaclava and the gun,
And far off in the distance
The beat of a lambeg drum.

March with pride,march with pride.
The Orangemen do say,
I think of the Sash and the hate that it paved.
So listen to woeful Ireland,
And shed a silent tear.
So please remember us dead men
Hanging from the scaffold clear.


Well thats it, hoped ye liked it

btw a lambeg drum is the type of drum used in the Orange marches and the Sash is the Orange sash they wear

BEAT

Thank you so much for posting, that is absolutley brilliant!
I was singing along as I read it

You have quite a talent there, I hope you are doing something with it

Fenian

Thanks BEAT, sound out.

Nemici

*****applause*****

gogo

That really is very good fenian. Well done.

Raggamuffin

did anyone actually pay attention to what he wrote?

nationalistic boredom.

woeful ireland embodied in a woeful song.

and i'm sorry but 1916 means as much to ireland now as world war 1.

Fenian

listen ragga, firstly i'm lowering myself to even answer your post but ignorence must be abolished (yet i fear your beyond hope)secondly,if it wasn't for the blood sacrifices of the Easter Rebellion and the subsequent executions the War of indepenence most likely woud never of occured, in the words of Tom Barry "1916 awakened 90% of the people to the republican cause". Also 1916 might mean nothing to a toerag like yourself but it still inspires myself and MANY other people all across this island, It inspired the hungerstrikers of 1919-1921 and later the men of 1980 and 1981.and it also inspires the republican prisoners rotting in irish and british gaols.

Raggamuffin

well to be honest i would rather a good old return to the holy roman empire...

the irish republic is a bit boring...

Shad0r

Very well constructed.

Not going to comment on the content, I've tried but anywhich way I approach it it turns into a debate about the IRA et al.

So nm.

Fenian

thanks shad0r

I'd just like to say i don't force my views on anyone, i just didn't appriciate what ragga said, if he didn't fancy it ,which obviously he didn't. He shouldn't of posted anything about it unless it was constructive criticism, which it certainly was not. Just plain insulting and thats grand,if he likes to get off on that kind of childishness thats perfectly ok.

Whats wrong with a debate about the IRA? People in this country have 2 views about them, they are either cold hearted terrorists or honourable freedom fights. No bets on which i choose!! But when people talk about it they just argue,I'm all up for a civilised debate. There is a problem in this country either way you look at it and it must be solved. Debating is a good way to start.

Raggamuffin

1. Constructive criticism is not the onyl form of criticism worthwhile. In fact i find my honesty to be the best policy. If you're looking for praise fine.. but to be honest the song's conten is what you're getting at and the style therefore is simply an added bonus.

2. "people" in ireland. Nice and general... So you're only able to have 2 points of view? Oh of course i've forgotten the IRA can never been seen in more than 2 lights after all they are such proud and honest members of our society.

3. Oh and by the way you do know that blowing up innocent people is exactly the kind of civilized debate you talk of? yes i'm sure you've thought this through. Debating is arguing by the way in case you need a prod in the right direction.

4.As for the problem in this country? i mean how general can you get? the only problem i can see is jingoistic nationalism. I can only comment on the moronic people down south but i bet half of the intellegent people up the north and down south could'nt care less which government is there aslong as they have a job and don't feel thretened.

Oh and by the way your patronising does not actually verify that i'm childish but i will say that your polarised view of history is completely misguided. No mention of the civil war or the church... NIce...

Why not involve parnell in your song or wellington?
How about the whole damn fianna while you're at it?

Just do a bit of reading that does'nt agree with your views and when you feel like you've settled on something you've obviously not read enough.

Talk to a few of the british soldier's familes who had sons killed in the troubles?

How dare you call youself a Fenian... Fenians are dead and gone... and their purpose died with them.

OH and dont' forget Gladstone and Butt and a few others while you're at it.

Shad0r

Fenian wrote:

thanks shad0r

I'd just like to say i don't force my views on anyone, i just didn't appriciate what ragga said, if he didn't fancy it ,which obviously he didn't. He shouldn't of posted anything about it unless it was constructive criticism, which it certainly was not. Just plain insulting and thats grand,if he likes to get off on that kind of childishness thats perfectly ok.

Ok, first off. None of us here are perfect and I believe you've insulted him about as much as he's insulted you. I HATE when people's criticism arent constructive being as it makes the comments little more than insults. That said just cause a comment is negative does not make it unconstructive. Also your song by virtue of the nature of it, is provocative and as I said before, its impossible to comment on without getting caught up in the political side of it.

Incidentally, I said that your song was well constructed and I stand by that, I do not however agree with your message.

Fenian wrote:

Whats wrong with a debate about the IRA? People in this country have 2 views about them, they are either cold hearted terrorists or honourable freedom fights. No bets on which i choose!! But when people talk about it they just argue,I'm all up for a civilised debate. There is a problem in this country either way you look at it and it must be solved. Debating is a good way to start.

Theres nothing wrong with debate. As far as I'm concerned talking/discussing/debating is the ONLY way the problems up North will ever be solved. However thats not what the CREATIVE WRITING forum is for, hence my comment about not wanting to turn it into a debate.

Where are you from/where did you grow up Fenian?

Raggamuffin

how about a debate about creatively writing about debates?

circular and pointless...

gorgeous too...

anyway i do feel that some criticism is a little to close to the bone for some souls but like you said it doe'snt mean it's not constructive.

I still have to disagree with construction of the song. I mean unless the music to go along with it magically detracts from the cliche message well then unfortunatly it will be, sadly, a pub favourite down the country.

In a quick point about the construction i foudn the following images pointless.

"hang upon the scaffold"
what scaffold? i mean you could hang from anything right? boring image that doe'snt develop.

Also the images of "lambeg drum" and "balaclava and gun" seem to fit in ethically, according to the writer, with "proud insuerrection".

I don't think the contrsution is good at all and i think when you really look at it from either a political or style point of view it just reeks.

example of recent political/good song, lyrics and music btw, would be, in my opinion, morrissey - irish blood, english heart.

I chose this song specifically for "fenian". Maybe he shoudl try writing songs with less historical reference and more personality.

I would love to hear a story, creatively written of course, as to why he as a fenian sees himself in the WORLD OF TODAY. I lowered my sarcasm at the last part in order to be more serious. And i am.

Fenian

"I can only comment on the moronic people down south but i bet half of the intellegent people up the north and down south could'nt care less which government is there aslong as they have a job and don't feel thretened."

Thats exactly one of my points, you said 1916 means nothing, well how many men and women marched out on that easter week? 1500, They are the few, and the few changed the course of this countries history. You talk about half the people, was 1500 half the population of Dublin in 1916? God no. But i agree with your point, most people don't give a **** who governs this island, yet i, and many others do.

I also agree that the IRA have killed innocents, but jesus man it was war. Innocent people die every day all over the world and especially in times of war. But you must also think that if there wasn't any British soliders on this island there wouldn't be a war. the British have no place on this island and no amount of conjecture will change that.

British rule on this island is the fundamental wrong.

I do not mention Parnell or wellington because i didn't think of them during writing the song.( don't know who wellington is)

By the way, how do you know if IRA men are proud and honest, do you know any? By our opinions of them it doesn't seem likely. You've fed into the propaganda by the Irish and british governments. Cold hearted terrorists who kill innocents......

And no, i feel nothing for the families of any british/scotish/welch solider killed here or abroad, it was there choice to join the Army, If you join the Army you sign yourself up to kill people and/or be killed yourself. What do you think goes through their families thoughts? " why was he killed, what has he ever done?" but the truth is he was sent to a place to enforce British rule in a land where British rule has no authority.

The fenians aren't dead and gone (or are they with o Leary in the grave?)
They live on in the hearts of the Provo's, They live on in men and women all across the world who detest rule from a foriegn land. I suppose you think the Mujahadeen/viet Cong/Black Tigers and countless others were wrong to fight for their freedom.

And just so ye know, i think it's justifiable to kill people in the name of freedom, be it civilian or otherwise. But thank god theres a peace process so the time for war is over.

Fenian

Would you like me to replace scaffold for giddet? or gibbet for tree? jesus, you can be hung from arything, So you think someone hanging is broing? maybe if i said he got raped while getting hanged, is that more to your liking?

Velvet Vocals

QUOTE "British rule on this island is the fundamental wrong."

JESUS guys.... can we not move on? They are here to stay. (Third and forth generations are living up there now) No one in the north give a **** anymore so why should we. The only real "troubles" that are left up there are the so called recreational rioting that starts with young people in disadvantaged areas and they tag on a loyalist or nationalist heading for the newspapers. No one is really living in fear anymore and that's all we should concern our selves with.
The terrorist organisations on both sides are more concerned with protection rackets/drug dealing/gun running and other such criminal activities now. Sure they may have their respective opinions but they're not "fighting" for them anymore... no one is.

I think as a nation we should try to put these things behind us and move on. Writing/Singing songs of this nature (however well written they might be) only cause hurt and build the fire of hatred and bigotry.

Raggamuffin

Firstly the half of the people i mentioned did not refer to the population of 1916 it was a reference to today. And the only reason they "changed" history is because somebody was bold enough to negociate with the british in the end and end all the bloodshed.

IT NEVER WAS A WAR. Look why does everyone want it to be a war? Did nobody ever hear of peaceful resistence ghandhi? martin luther king?
No it's much easier to point a gun a some mother's head a leave her buried for 30 years.

Wellington, along with being a british hero and having a massive monument in the phoenix park, helped to emancipate the catholics with daniel o'connell two great men.

Isaac Butt always claimed to be british but still worked for some form of Irish Home Rule.

"And no, i feel nothing for the families of any british/scotish/welch solider killed here or abroad, it was there choice to join the Army, If you join the Army you sign yourself up to kill people and/or be killed yourself. What do you think goes through their families thoughts? " why was he killed, what has he ever done?" but the truth is he was sent to a place to enforce British rule in a land where British rule has no authority."

they were sent here to protect the catholics and then the "ira" decided to pick them off. read your unbiased history books will ya (if there are any?)

I leave the funniest for last.

1. The viet cong were not a terrorist organization but in fact the army of North vietnam. Therefore i don't really think you can classify them as terrorists and are in no way comparable to the IRA.

2. Mujahadeen, dear lord these men are disgraceful. They actually don't want invaders out but subjugate the population once they have their own power. SO in your view the Taliban in afghanistan are now liek the IRA as freedom fighters.

3.Black tigers of sri lanka are the only people i don't know enough about to say much so i'm sorry i i connot say anything.

They don't fight for freedom they fight to protect their power.
This is a rock in the atlantic we just so happen to inhabit. If some people up the north, and there are alot, want to remain british it is their right and if some people wish to be irish that's also their right. Thats why they have dual-passports.

anyway i hope someday you start reading history instead of listening toparty line.

p.s for you information i work and hahve worked with somebody who lived in Derry during the troubles, a scotish soldier based in belfast 1977 and know of a few people who had or may still have links with the ira.

I get on with the ex-soldier the best.

Battlesnake

Firstly Fenian I would like to enlighten you on the fact that catholics in the north see being called a 'fenian' as an insult, the same way that they see the word 'taig'. The same way it's insulting for protestants to be called 'huns' or 'british bastards'.

People don't join the army to kill, for some of them they will never be in a heavy battle zone. They join because it's a good job and they get well looked after, they meet new people and travel. Killing is something that they know may be on the horizon, but it only comes as a last resort when they are protecting the innocent or in danger of losing their own lives.

they were sent here to protect the catholics and then the "ira" decided to pick them off

True and some of them are still here protecting people on both sides who are frightened, ensuring that peace (what there is of it) is not broken.
They have many times been stationed on the road outside my house (in a mixed area and as recently as 2wks ago) and have always been pleasant, kind and reassuring to all.

And yes boo hoo I am a protestant - presbyterian and my relatives came to 'your' land a few hundered years ago, so forgive me for being born into a world where I had no idea of the circumstances surrounding me.
Forgive my grandfather for running a business which employed many catholics and protestants fairly, until the IRA blew up his business and lost them all their jobs and some of their lives. So feel free to hate me as I'm sure you will, for the actions of others that I had no involvement in.

I don't feel british, I don't feel Irish, I don't really know how to label myself, but I honestly don't want to waste my life worrying about it.

Unless you were there in 1916. . .what has it to do with you?
Unless you where brought up amidst the controversy. . . . .what has it to do with you?
Unless it has somehow affected your life first hand. . .what has it to do with you?

Poetry comes from the heart, where is yours?

Please if you feel so passionately as you obviously do, then try to understand the whole situation, not just a small segment. Take the blinkers off and see the world instead of just a spodge of ink. Take the plunge and open your mind. I'm not saying to change your opinion, I think it has gone beyond that, it would be worthwhile for you to gain more information and then you could have a more meaningful peice of work, rather than a bunch of words lifted from the pages of a history book.

Oh and by the way, orange men do wear an orange sash, but 'the sash' is actually a song. (You really know what you're talking about don't you?)
It's a bit like the flip side to your own song.

THE SASH MY FATHER WORE

Sure I'm an Ulster Orangeman, from Erins isle I came,
To see my british brethren all of honor and of fame,

And to tell them of my forefathers who fought in days of yore,
That I might have the right to wear, the sash my father wore!

chorus
It is old but it is beautiful, and it's colours they are fine,
It was worn at Derry, Aughrim, Enniskillen and the Boyne

My father wore it as a youth in bygone days of yore
And on the twelth I love to wear the sash my father wore

For those brave men who crossed the Boyne,have not died in vain
Our Unity, Religion, Laws and Freedom to maintain,

If that call should come we'll follow the drum, and cross that river once more
That tomorrow's Ulsterman may wear the sash my father wore!

chorus

And when some day, across the sea to Antrim's shore you come,
We'll welcome you in royal style, to the sound of flute and drum

And Ulster's hills shall echo still, from Rathlin to Dromore
As we sing again the loyal strain of the sash my father wore!

chorus


For the record that's the first time I've ever seen the words to that song. My best friend is catholic and to be honest religion isn't the problem here anymore.
The last person in my family to be part of the orange order was my great grandfather who left as he didn't like the way things were going within the order.

So come on big man, come and get me, but you won't get a fight I'm not looking for one, the same as most people - I just want a bit of peace and quiet.

Your rhyming is good and you've certainly had your head in a book. Push yourself to expand on how you feel and get your facts straight or you're never going to be taken seriously as a writer, especially when writing on that particular topic.

One more thought

1500, They are the few, and the few changed the course of this countries history

Why should the minority rule the majority? Only 5% of the population is causing problems in Northern Ireland these days. It stinks doesn't it.

Raggamuffin - Irish Blood, English Heart is brill! I totally agree with you.

Irish blood, English heart
This I'm made of
There is no one on earth I'm afraid of
And no regime can buy or sell me

I've been dreaming of a time when
to be English is not to be baneful
to be standing by the flag, not feeling shameful
racist or racial

Irish blood, English heart
this I'm made of
There is no one on earth I'm afraid of
And I will die with both of my hands untied

I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
and spit upon the name Oliver Cromwell
and denounce this royal line that still salute him
and will salute him
FOREVER...

Raggamuffin

Morrissey is just brilliant full stop hehe...

Nah it's justa shame how polarised people can be.


I totally agree with you on being born into a society that you did'nt choose to be a part of. I mean most people think you're born into the world with an orange sash and a drum with an RUC officer and a british soldier looking on proudly.

I think it's important to criticise stuff like this because it forces the writer to confront the other sides of the story and may in fact cause him to reevaluate his biased views.

If not, well then lets pray the smiths get an extra fan then.

he probabaly is celtic fan... hehehe

Raggamuffin

Fenian wrote:

Would you like me to replace scaffold for giddet? or gibbet for tree? jesus, you can be hung from arything, So you think someone hanging is broing? maybe if i said he got raped while getting hanged, is that more to your liking?

sorry i missed this.


the word is "gallows" try that one. Buy a thesaurus.

Shad0r

Shad0r wrote:

Where are you from/where did you grow up Fenian?

You seem to have missed this the first time around, but I'd like to know. Curiousity if you will.

BEAT

This thread has gotten out of hand, I am sorry I dod not open it earlier. I would have put a stop to it after the first post.

This is a creative writing forum, comments are welcome but full blown debates on political matters should be taken to the POlitical forum.

If you have any further comments for one another you can PM them or post eslsewhere.

If one more post is put up about something other than comments on the song this thread will be locked.

You have been warned.

Battlesnake

Beat - I commented because fenian wrote about an issue that affects and distresses a hell of a lot of people. I have no problem with him doing this, my problem with the piece and my opinion was that he didn't give the topic the respect it deserves and it was a half hearted attempt that had no depth or substance, no voice of it's own simply repeated words that he managed to make rhyme.
I have no probs with anyone being sectarian or whatever they choose to be, just if you're going to make a statement, at least make it an informed one.
I showed the sash not because I care for it an iota but because it's like the other side of what he was saying and I thought it would be interesting to see how two views of the same thing appear side by side in song.
I'm not a republican, I'm not a unionist, I'm just a person that thought his song could have been better and I would encourage him to improve upon it.

Another thing, you can't just lock a thread because you don't like what you see beyond your own opinion. So you can go ahead with your warnings but my comments were legitimate and any references to anything other than 'the song' were replies to what had previously been said.

What everyone was trying to get at was not an argument, but to know where the song came from in his own thoughts, what path was he travelling on when it turned onto a page where he wrote of such hatred? That's what is interesting, so that other poets/writers can gain from his inspiration and try to find things in their own lives that they can use, but may have overlooked.

luckat

At last, some passion in the creative writing forum.

Whether one agrees with the sentiments or disagrees, Beat has succeeded in arousing people.

luckat

Oops, I mean Fenian... well, Beat too... well, both!

Raggamuffin

yes we're all being creative in our writing.

In fact i would say ultimately creative.

Why do people insist on times and places...

BEAT

Battlesnake wrote:

Another thing, you can't just lock a thread because you don't like what you see beyond your own opinion. So you can go ahead with your warnings but my comments were legitimate and any references to anything other than 'the song' were replies to what had previously been said.

Battelsnake, While you have been warned I want to make it perfectly clear that My opinion has nothing to do with whether or not this thread will be locked. Going off topic, like I stated above is what will get this thread locked and since you do not seem to grasp this concept if it happens again you will be banned from this forum for a week at a time.

Shad0r

BEAT wrote:

Battelsnake, While you have been warned I want to make it perfectly clear that My opinion has nothing to do with whether or not this thread will be locked. Going off topic, like I stated above is what will get this thread locked and since you do not seem to grasp this concept if it happens again you will be banned from this forum for a week at a time.

Beat, I've always considered you fair in your modding duties, which is why the above makes no sense to me. Battlesnake hasnt taken this thread anymore off the topic than Fenian and Raggamuffin earlier. Of for that matter my own posts. Banning anybody for what they've written would be heavy handed and completely unfair.

It is not possible to post a song like this and not have a political discussion. IMPOSSIBLE. For starters you pretty much cant discuss the content then. So IN MY OPINION, if you didnt want a political discussion you should have locked the thread as soon as it was posted. (I hope that doesnt read like I'm trying to tell you what to do. I'm not. I'm well aware how thankless a job modding can be)

Raggamuffin

i've always felt moderating always descends into censorship after a while.

this sort of discussion would not have started on any other thread and i feel that going off-topic is sometimes the way alot of conversation wish to go and rightfully so.


ANd anyways it's very intersting as we can at elast see that the merits of creative writing are beyond that of simply submitting poetry for praise.

Fenian

k, I'm sorry for makingsuch a heated debate, I'd like to say that BEAT is right and the way this has gone should be in the politics section.

i know gallows, but gallows can also be used where slaves were housed to row ships, for **** sake i wrote the thing, i didn't check every word to see if it meant what you think it means.

Also, i don't hate protestants, I hate injustice, I hate when people say iraq is wrong and vietnam was wrong, when there is a war going on in this island, when rights are deniad, (Special powers act now known as Terrorism act).

Also I'm from Cork, and even though i'm as far from trhe north as you can get ,ity doesn't matter, i love my island and i love my people, north and south of the border, i make it my duty to continue the struggle, i dislike the "republic" as uch as i dislike the north. Read "internment, by John Mcguffin" if ye want to know what this so called republic stands for.

I wrote that song because i love this island and because i want my island to be free of foriegn aggression, and any irsh man who says that britian has the right to rule the north is a fool.

someone mentioned Ghandai (probaly didn't spell it right), the only resoan england gave up Indai was because of logistics, India is half the worls away and there is no way england could support a war (india having, what 9 times the population of england) across such a distance.

btw, i'm abit pissed so if things are abit jumble up or spelling is ****e thats why.