Living and Dying ?..

Paddy20

We are born and sooner or later we die. All the medicine in the world will not save us from the inevitable end of our lives. If we are lucky enough to survive to have a natural death.

Personally I have no fear of dying. Yet it seem's most people have a morbid fear of their own mortality.

Why,it's only natural isn't it ?..

AngryBadger

I think this is probably an acquisition of age, like most things you can't really claim an opinion until you've stared it down, and eaten it's cheetos.

Probably most people don't really address their attitude to death until they're faced by the reality of it, maybe a relative passing, or some tragedy of their own. At that point you realise that maybe death isn't this cushy kind of fall into a beautiful light , that's really a paradise filled with rock stars, and all the girls that wouldn't go out with you.

To say that it's a natural thing, while being perfectly accurate, is glossing over the fact that death can be a very messy drawn out thing, and maybe there is no shining light afterward. Maybe we're all just worm food.

In short, personally, I think we all face death at some point, and reach our own conclusions about it,like most philosophical questions there isn't an absolute answer, some people who have faced it, are terrified by it, some are not. To each his own

Stark

I'm terrified by the thought that death could really be the end, that there's no more after that. If on the other hand it's a transition then I'm fine with that once I don't die in a nasty manner. I personally feel it's a transition, I feel there's a lot more to life than what our five senses tell us.

elivsvonchiaing

Stark wrote:

I'm terrified by the thought that death could really be the end, that there's no more after that. If on the other hand it's a transition then I'm fine with that once I don't die in a nasty manner. I personally feel it's a transition, I feel there's a lot more to life than what our five senses tell us.

Given that we don't know - my preferred death is a meteor on the back of the head doing mach 12. Any 110mm shell from artillery would suffice also, just prefer if I didn't notice the tank beforehand.

The idea of dying in a bed with all my family around (who probably wished I had died at least a week previosly - I KNOW this happens - I've been there) - does not appeal.

If you find no comfort in the bible try reading the Bhagavad Gita. (It's just the same bull**** - a little more appealling though

elivsvonchiaing

Should have mentioned this in my previous post. Bill Hicks: "The news story about the kid on acid" BH "says why is there always negative bull**** about drugs on the the news- Guy on acid tries to fly etc. "Why can't there be a story like this: <from amnesiated memory> "Today a young man took LSD and realised - that energy is matter, just with higher vibration, that there is no death, that we are all one consciousness observing our reality subjectively, whilst unaware that we are just the one consciousness.

I also quite lilke a belief expressed by a Chassidic Jew (on TV can't remember) - The soul is not individual - it is more like you take a piece of wood, drill many holes in it and shine a light through it. The lights you see are many- there is only one source. It is this that is the soul. Not the points of light.

Corrollary:If you have an embarrassing problem in this life - you may possibly have 20 more in the afterlife :-)

Utimately, I think Judaism is "coolest" on this: as a Catholic - I'm meant to believe in the afterlife - or I'll go to hell! Luckily I really do

Tivoli

i prefer the thought that there will be nothing after death, that whole heven crap freaked me out for my entire childhood...

i was convinced there was the big place, full of dead peoples souls floating about, knowing every single thing you ever did or thought during your whole life, :eek:

so nowadays i think the afterlife was concocted by guys who were to proud to admit to themselves that someday they won't exist

emertoff

Anytime I've thought about it, if there is nothing after death, it is preferable to me to any contrived imaginations of heaven and hell. I would settle for nothing if I could be guaranteed it. I've always had a belief in reincarnation, the idea that heaven and hell exist in the form of new life. If you compare a world-famous movie star to a starving African child, for example. A bit to philosphical for this time of night, methinks.

Paddy20

My God :eek: There's life in the old dog of a thread yet, and here was I thinking Boards.ie was populated by geeks who are much too wired to have time to consider "Death" never mind - really - living ?..

elivsvonchiaing

Went to my Uncle's funeral today - same name as me - very freaky. Thank fcuk his middle initial was different - but freaky none the less. It did make me think about death quite a bit-

I've always hated this term: "Shoor hasn't he gone to his reward!" - I think at very least he has; death places you beyond pain. Hence the reward. While I have beliefs about this - it still freaks me out to think there are so many meta-physical models out there and I have a hunch they are all wrong :eek: including my own personal one :rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes: :eek:

Most freaky; the priest will be mentioning the same name - only it'll refer to me :rolleyes: Can't see how becoming Jewish and its a rabbi makes this any better

Really staring your own death in the face must be a horrible experience - as Spike Milligan put it - "Don't mind death - just don't want to be there when it happens!" (approximate quote from memory).

Paddy20

Why are you convinced it must be a horrible experience. I was "gone" twice in my life, after heart attack's that developed in to full blown - cardiac arrests.

My heart had stopped completely. Therefore no oxygen was reaching my brain and after the crash teams ceased trying to "resus". I came back after five full minutes of being clinically dead.

They refer to me in St Jame's, as Lazarus, because I actually came back twice. I now have arteries around my heart, that are full of metal stents to keep them open, but I have massive lesions [dead muscle tissue] on the left of my heart, and function daily on about one third of the power I once had.

Yet, these experiences have left me with absolutely no fear of dying. This coming November it will be 5 years since my last cardiac arrest, and everyday I am aware that I could drop dead. My consultant is amazed that I have survived five years since I last died in hospital. I have refused a transplant option, which is apparently my only hope, yet I am still here.

Life and death really is stranger than fiction.

elivsvonchiaing

A mate of mine was similar to you. (Though he only died once). And I think he was a flat-liner for only 2 or 3 minutes. He had already convinced me what you have said.

My biggest fear is not dying on the road or in a freaky accident elsewhere. It's really fear of dying of a disease in a hospital bed - possibly so debiliated that I can't bark "give me more fcukin morphine to the nurse" - or can't even speak. Give me a quick death anyday.

Though this isn't an invitation to murder me You know what I mean.

You at least know that if the docs are right it will be relatively quick. I think I could live with that too. It's cancer of the everything, motor-neurone disease, stuff like that that I really fear. I guess I don't fear death itself - just prefer life- its more a fear of the manner of dying - there a lot of cruel possibilities here - ones that are cruel to you and ones that cruel to your family, ones cruel to both.

Back to my original post - my name on coffin: realised today chances are there will be one just like it with me in it in 0 - 60 years. I knew this already since I was 7 - but seeing it helps the mind really grasp what it probably doesn't really want to on an emotional level.

I suspect in 50 years it won't bother me quite as much - especially if that coffin happens before that

Exit

I'm afraid of death. I don't believe there's anything after this except feeding insects (and I'm fine with that, although it's scary to think of someone who is close to you rotting away in the ground) What scares me about dying is that that's that. I'm really interested in how the world and humans evolve, and I'd really love to live forever so that I could find out the end of the story.

We're just bit characters though really, and when you think of it like that, life seems almost meaningless. Apart from passing genes on, nothing else really matters. I'd hate to have a future spouse die for example. Apart from the obvious grief, you're left in charge of all their possessions that they've built up through the years, but what do you do with it? Do you throw out that book collection they'd been working on all their lives, or their record collection or whatever it is that keeps people occupied in their lives. To think that the vast majority of what we do with life while we have it is completely pointless after we die is scary to me.

Inf

Im not afraid of dieing im actaully afraid of living for ever, even when everyone else dies. Just me on my own.

elivsvonchiaing

Exit wrote:

I'm afraid of death. I don't believe there's anything after this except feeding insects (and I'm fine with that, although it's scary to think of someone who is close to you rotting away in the ground) What scares me about dying is that that's that. I'm really interested in how the world and humans evolve, and I'd really love to live forever so that I could find out the end of the story.

We're just bit characters though really, and when you think of it like that, life seems almost meaningless. Apart from passing genes on, nothing else really matters. I'd hate to have a future spouse die for example. Apart from the obvious grief, you're left in charge of all their possessions that they've built up through the years, but what do you do with it? Do you throw out that book collection they'd been working on all their lives, or their record collection or whatever it is that keeps people occupied in their lives. To think that the vast majority of what we do with life while we have it is completely pointless after we die is scary to me.

{I now have to confess a morbid fascination with this thread due to experiences during the week}.
In 100 years nobody will know or care I ever existed. I'm not in any way scared about this - I'd be more worried if they were to discover I existed and discovered that I didn't have a life. I used to dwell on such things but thinking about sheit like this is a waste of life and life is too short for this...

Cheer up y'old bugger! (no offence see below - If this makes no sense - get to video shop right now and rent "Life of Brian")

Gratuitous Rendition of "Always look on the bright side of life!"

elivsvonchiaing

Inf wrote:

Im not afraid of dieing im actaully afraid of living for ever, even when everyone else dies. Just me on my own.

Have to confess fear of the same. Luckily I'm a smoker and don't expect to live to be 100.

My father had an Aunt - last time I saw here she was 99 - still able to knock back a couple of glasses of brandy without a bother. She died two years later. She had 5 kids -one of which was still alive to attend her funeral.

Man I do not want to live that long either

If you're convinced: I'd recommend Camels (lights) or regular if you want out before you're 70

Myksyk

I'm a confirmed materialist/naturalist (whatever) and harbour no hope of life after death. I'm fine with this but it never ceases to hit me that one day I will be gone. That is, the amazing 'once-in-the existence-of-the-universe-never-to-be-repeated' wiring of my particular brain with all its memories, learning, experiences and consciousness will cease to exist. This reflection always gives me pause for thought. It bemuses and astounds me but I can't say it ever frightens me.

Myksyk

Exit wrote:

I'm really interested in how the world and humans evolve, and I'd really love to live forever so that I could find out the end of the story.

I can identify with that ... oh well! :rolleyes:

Apart from passing genes on, nothing else really matters.

I think I understand but I can't agree with your point of view Exit. Genes Schmenes...that may be the reason we arrived where we are but it ain't the only thing and may be very little when it comes to deciding what 'matters' to you. These things are connected to but a million miles away from genes. Let's accept the gene-centric view for a minute. So what if we evolved in a roundabout way to replicate genes? I guarantee that my love of guitars/reading/electronic gadgetry/etc/etc has only the most tenuous and essentially irrelevant link to evolution of the species. Emergent (or whatever you want to call it) properties like consciousness are not meaningless because blind evolutionary algorithms led to them.

In important ways, what matters to you is your decision. There may be particular objective truths about the universe but there is no objective arbiter of 'meaningfulness' - this is our decision - it matters to us if we deem it matters to us. Presumably your existence matters ... or do you believe that if you existed on a plane different to this one, then your existence would somehow 'matter'? or if you could live for a billion years instead of 67 then your life would 'matter'?

The thing is, you DO exist which is blindingly extraordinary in itself. And you have consciousness which is unique and utterly head-shakingly astounding ... why and how you got here is exceedingly interesting and not unimportant but what you do with your existence now is hardly meaningless ... unless you decide it is.

elivsvonchiaing

I now have to admit feeling at least a little ashamed at my reply to exit. Apologies if it made no sense or simply offended in any way.

The point I was trying to make was that it is very easy to start asking questions to which there is no answer and as a consequence life loses meaning.

Personally I believe the Universe is here for a purpose wtf that is, is unknowable. I guess I gave Spinoza/Einstein away with capital "U" as such we all have meaning as data with massive redundancy - though I try to focus on Monty Python more than this hypothesis and generally just get on with my life and try to enjoy living as much as possible.

Still have to love Hesse's "awsome majesty of death" I think from Der Steppenwolfe - death really does make you think about life when you see it happen - and know its going to be your turn eventually.

Chucky

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

Personally I believe the Universe is here for a purpose wtf that is, is unknowable. I guess I gave Spinoza/Einstein away with capital "U" as such we all have meaning as data with massive redundancy - though I try to focus on Monty Python more than this hypothesis and generally just get on with my life and try to enjoy living as much as possible.

The universe isn't here for a purpose - it's just there. It's formed over billions of years just for the heck of it. Things just happen. Single-celled life formed millions of years ago too and we're just an advanced version of those. Nothing has any purpoe at all.

I think death would be just like sleeping without any dreams....peaceful.

I agree with your earlier views that dying a slow-way (with different body parts failing as you go along) is not nice. I don't intend to do that - I'm going out in style...before I find I cannot go to the toilet for myself, am blind, have a titanium hip, and can't get an erection....I'm gone long before that.

.........if we have a 'purpose', then it's simply to eat and reproduce.

Capt'n Midnight

Paddy20 wrote:

We are born and sooner or later we die. All the medicine in the world will not save us from the inevitable end of our lives. If we are lucky enough to survive to have a natural death.

Personally I have no fear of dying. Yet it seem's most people have a morbid fear of their own mortality.

Why,it's only natural isn't it ?..

Because there is a finite population, birth implies death.
Most lower organisms don't die of old age, but higher organisms tend to be programmed to die, not sure if it's to do with dna mutation rates, the point being that you won't be able to produce healthy offspring forever and there is no selection by evolution for events that are unlikely to happen. Humans are one of the few species that live for far longer than they can reproduce for. This can be explained by having older members of a family/clan/group being able to mind children, share in food collection and remembering things of use and so help the whole group survive including those with the longevity gene. If our ancestors wern't social then there would be less selective pressure to survive beyond fertile years.

elivsvonchiaing

Just found this and thought it might be interesting to readers of the thread...

http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/life_extension/age5.html