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Time To End Car Pollution

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  • 07-08-2004 9:03pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭


    Surely it's time mans dependance on oil came to an end. We've all seen the amount of control OPEC has over our lives and while the reasons for this are obvious I don't see why a large group of people couldn't get together and research a serious alternative.

    I'm a member of a mailing list that deals with free energy devices. From what I have seen and read it is clear that certain moves to bring free energy devices to the fore are being blocked. Imagine how much better for the atmosphere it would be with out car fumes.

    Any thoughts?

    Nick

    PS: I'm considering starting a group to build a free energy car.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,488 ✭✭✭SantaHoe


    From what I have seen and read it is clear that certain moves to bring free energy devices to the fore are being blocked.
    I haven't read much about that, but it's the kind of thing you'd naturally assume would happen when there are people who stand to lose money. :/
    I don't know exactly who's blocking it and how (although I'm picturing fuel-based energy providers and brown envelopes), but surely there's a way to start off on a small scale and in a place where they don't have any influence.

    I remember seeing something on TV a few months ago where in LA, people can't see the HOLLYWOOD sign because of the emissions from cars.
    I'm all in favour of keeping the air clean, but I'm galled sometimes by how non-smokers worry so much about their health in the presence of a smoker, yet happily walk through town in rush-hour traffic jams.
    I've actually had to cover my mouth with my jacket when walking along by the quays a few times... and I'm a smoker!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭MeatProduct


    It's frightening when you consider the forces behind keeping down free energy inventions. OPEC is amazingly powerful. Nearly every government has something to gain from oil usage.

    You are right about the location issue. I would like to think that Ireland would be a sensible place to start such a project. If it was a success then Europe and the US markets are on the doorsteps.

    Nick


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,488 ✭✭✭SantaHoe


    Yeah, I like the hybrid system though, switching to an electric motor for slower city driving, its a step in the right direction at least... introducing a slow acceptance maybe?
    And Ireland seems to be on the up with the usage of wind turbines in many parts of the country aswell.
    I heard an interview mentioning wind turbines on NewsTalk106 a few days ago and heard that they were worried about how people might object to having them as an eye-sore... personally I think they look very cool, just seeing them gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside... much nicer than a gargantuan billowing chimney stack anyway.

    Heh, didn't think I was this much of a hippy ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭Tommy Vercetti


    SantaHoe wrote:
    I heard an interview mentioning wind turbines on NewsTalk106 a few days ago and heard that they were worried about how people might object to having them as an eye-sore... personally I think they look very cool, just seeing them gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside... much nicer than a gargantuan billowing chimney stack anyway.

    Yeah me too, if I were a tourist, I would be a lot more impressed with seeing wind farms everywhere than seeing even one conventional power plant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    SantaHoe wrote:
    e.

    I remember seeing something on TV a few months ago where in LA, people can't see the HOLLYWOOD sign because of the emissions from cars.

    Thats been true for decades - its what prompted Californias very tough emmisions laws back in the 60s

    http://www.arb.ca.gov/html/brochure/history.htm

    As for wind turbines eveywhere, I used to be fan (and still am to a degree) but they will never be able to make a big impact on total energy needs as you cant store the current they generate. Other methods based around greater effiencies and less use are proberly the best way foward. After all think how much fuel could be saved if more ppl worked from home and how much power could be saved if power grids did'nt leak current.

    Mike.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭mrhappy42


    Friend of mind tried to setup some windfarms a while ago..and the co-council blocked him...then recently the ESB got permission for a farm near by.

    Its seems the ESB wants to avoid just owning the grid as they have not been putting money into it (like Eircom and an Post) so they could go down a more private road through subsideries etc....the ESB cant handle peaks from wind at the moment so no point...only makes sense locally but you need at least 10 to 15 k to set a a small home supply...the battery technology/converters and the mast are the main costs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭MeatProduct


    These guys have a good alternative: Perendev

    Nick


  • Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭mrhappy42


    I'm running the geothermal stuff at home but dont have night meter from the ESB...anyone know if this makes a large difference...


  • Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭mrhappy42


    MeatProduct that website looks like a scam for investors...no detail and some magic magnetic solution...perpetual motion stuff etc.

    I hope I'm wrong and that this sort of stuff is possible. However would not invest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭MeatProduct


    mrhappy42 wrote:
    MeatProduct that website looks like a scam for investors...no detail and some magic magnetic solution...perpetual motion stuff etc.

    I hope I'm wrong and that this sort of stuff is possible. However would not invest.
    Well I had just had a recommendation from somebody for that site and that's why I posted it. I was a bit scepical about it also and asked around on a free energy mailing list and a few people have said it's dodgy so I expect you are correct. There are a good number of these types of people around trying to scam people, very annoying.

    However I am in no doubt that free energy devices do exist and are possible. Our physics just make it seem impossible.

    Nick


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  • Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭mrhappy42


    A guy in Castletown B in Cork had a similar scam a about 15 years ago...my old mad got involved. Luckilly he lost no money but others did. However at that time I found out that no such thing as a free lunch...or perpetual motion with energy returns...i.e frictionless perpetual motion is possible but cant harness this...Maxwell's equations etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,488 ✭✭✭SantaHoe


    mike65 wrote:
    As for wind turbines eveywhere, I used to be fan
    Groan ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    SantaHoe wrote:
    Groan ;)

    he he! That was completely unintentional :p

    Magnets are indeed a con and it one ppl keep falling for. God knows why.

    Heres a good piece about hydrogen which does work-

    from bbc
    Capturing sunlight to make enough hydrogen fuel to power cars and buildings has been brought a step closer by a British research company.

    Hydrogen Solar says it has managed to convert more than 8% of sunlight directly into hydrogen with fuel cell technology it has specially developed.

    For an energy source to be commercially viable, it must reach an efficiency of 10%, which is an industry standard.

    Hydrogen power, a renewable energy, has the potential to replace fossil fuels.

    "Over the last couple of years we have doubled efficiency.

    "We are not yet in the hydrogen economy, but it has the potential to take over when the oil economy becomes untenable," Dr David Auty, chief executive of Hydrogen Solar told BBC News Online.

    Nano hand

    Depending on how it is produced, hydrogen fuel is a clean, green source of power that can be easily stored.

    Its potential has been recognised for well over 100 years, but it requires energy to extract hydrogen from water, or any other source.

    The Tandem Cell technology developed by Hydrogen Solar uses two photocatalytic cells in series which are coated with a nano-crystalline - extremely thin - metal oxide film.

    Having a nanoscale coating makes the surface area far greater and means that hydrogen can be produced efficiently without the need for polluting fossil fuels.

    The cells capture the full spectrum of ultraviolet light - the Sun's rays - and, via the novel coating, the electrons are captured and carried away on conductors.

    Click here to see how the cells work

    This electrical current is then used to separate the hydrogen from water which is stored for use.

    The key to the process has been the advances in novel coatings brought about by recent developments in nanotechnology.


    A car could run for 11,000 miles on hydrogen
    The size of the molecules in the coating is 15 to 20 nanometres (a nanometre being a billionth of a metre).

    When they are stacked in layers, the property of the substance changes to produce large surface areas.

    "It turns out these devices work because we are using nanocrystalline layers. It is the move to nanotechnology which has brought this technology forward," explained Dr Auty.

    He added: "If we look five years ahead and we have a few square miles of hydrogen farm in a desert, we think we could produce hydrogen that is competitive with coal and oil."

    Once production costs have been scaled down, large hydrogen cell farms could produce hydrogen, untaxed, at $1.80 to $3 a kilo.

    That is equivalent to a third of the price of the same amount of power produced from untaxed gasoline, he thinks.

    There has been huge amount of work in fuel cells for buses, cars, houses, and other buildings.

    But Dr Auty envisages the car industry making the best use of the technology in modified combustion engines.

    "Using a 10% cell, we say that a seven-metre squared array will power a Mercedes A class car for 11,000 miles a year [in LA sunlight conditions] without going to power station," said Dr Auty.

    Motor future

    Hydrogen power has also be produced from hydrocarbons, like oil and gas, but these have downsides in their byproducts.

    Pollution-free hydrogen cell technology is predicted to be the next wave in emissions-control after the hybrid electric motor, currently used in the automotive industry.

    Research into hydrogen power has been pumped with funding in the US in particular.

    In 2003, President George Bush announced an $1.7bn investment to turn the US into the world leaders of hydrogen-powered automobiles.

    With increasing concern about the instability of the oil market, the development of a commercially viable alternative energy source has attracted interest.

    "The potential lack of oil is the reason we are doing this," Dr Auty said.

    "There are huge amounts of carbon released through coal and other hydrocarbons."

    Last year, General Motors (GM) said it planned to be the first to sell a million fuel cell vehicles in the next decade.

    Other automotive giants have also championed hydrogen fuel.

    DaimlerChrysler, Ford and GM have spent about $2bn on fuel cell cars, trucks and buses. The first products came out last year, and many UK cities have deployed hydrogen buses.

    Ford's Chairman William Clay Ford Jr went so far as predicting fuel cells would end the reign of the internal combustion engine.

    But there have been a number of technical and financial stumbling blocks - including taxation - which have prevented its large scale adoption, and Dr Auty thinks there need to be more political will to push the technology forward.

    "There is a chicken and egg issue here," he said.

    "Who is going to build a car before they have filling stations, and who is going to build stations before we have the cars.

    "It has to be strategically thought out and driven by government. There is a political will in US, but I think the UK is a bit behind the pace."

    "The key about all of this is that all predictions about crude oil are pretty much going to be in our lifetimes," said Dr Auty.

    "But if you talk about infrastructure change, these things don't happen overnight."

    Mike.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭chewy


    hi meat product have you ever considered that (atleast in tandam) one should work on lowering car dependance...

    maybe im crazy and been hanging round the wrong people but have as many cars on the road even if they not powered by carbon is not realy going far enough...?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭Typedef


    I'm a member of a mailing list that deals with free energy devices. From what I have seen and read it is clear that certain moves to bring free energy devices to the fore are being blocked.

    Could you be a bit more specific about what it is that's being suppressed, how and by whom?

    I'd be interested in seeing some substantive evidence.

    My instinct tells me you're probably right, but, I'd be interested to see some of the hard facts from the mailing list.
    PS: I'm considering starting a group to build a free energy car.


    More power to you....


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    mrhappy42 wrote:
    F....the ESB cant handle peaks from wind at the moment so no point...
    30 years ago this went on line.. http://www.esb.ie/main/about_esb/history_turlough.jsp

    Minute to minute demand fluctuates quite a lot (cf. all the kettles after corrie) so more storage stations might be an answer. Hey you could save some money on generators if you just used wind mills to pump water - and lakes are nice and flat..


    PS. during WWII they used to run cars on "producer gas" made by spraying steam onto red hot turf - nasty evil stuff with a lot of carbon monixide on it - just one alternative technology


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