Japs Vs European? Japs win again!

Sleipnir

For all those beemer heads....




Reliable Japanese cars overtake more expensive 'luxury brands'



CAR buyers who opt for expensive, top-of-the-range vehicles do not necessarily get what they pay for, according to the latest Which consumer survey.

Japanese cars and not luxury brands like Jaguar and Mercedes-Benz are the most reliable, says the report which looked at the reliability of 150 different car models in a survey of more than 80,000 owners.

Lexus, which is a Toyota brand, is the only luxury car to "deliver excellent reliability" while the "wooden spoon" went to the Audi TT for the second year running.

Honda, Hyundai, Lexus, Mazda, Suzuki and Toyota made up the excellent league as the most reliable makes with the least number of breakdowns, faults and niggles.

Luxury cars like Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Alfa Romeo and Volvo were among 12 makes in the "average" category, while BMW, Audi, Chrysler, Saab and VW were among the 13 in the "poor" category.

The Which survey describes BMW's decline as "another chapter in the tale of woe for German cars once known for their dependability".

The German make VW is joined in the poor category this year by Audi, which dropped two places in the table in as many years.

Four manufacturers are classified as good: Daihatsu; Ford; Nissan, which is hovering on the border between excellent and good; and Subaru.

Up to the year 2000, Ford had been languishing in the poor category but the survey says it shows how it is possible for a manufacturer to turn its reliability around, with most cars in the Ford range now in the good panel. "Sadly the likes of Citroen, Fiat, Land Rover, Peugeot, Renault, Rover and Vauxhall (Opel in Ireland) show few signs of following suit," the report says.

The survey found the new range of MG cars including the ZR, ZS and ZT, boosted the company's results moving it from poor to average.

Alfa Romeo and Volvo also climbed out of the poor category up to average but Saab fell the other way from average to poor along with Chrysler and Daewoo.

To assess the cars' reliability the survey asked what had happened to the car in the previous 12 months in terms of breaking down or failing to start, replacement and repairing faulty parts and niggles such as squeaks or leaks that could not be traced.

It excluded accidents, punctures or flat batteries - where the lights were left on - and running out of fuel. In addition to car reliability, the survey analysed the breakdown rate of cars up to two years old.

Audi was bottom of the list with one in five Audi TT models breaking down. By contrast, not a single Mazda 323 broke down in the third year of the annual survey.

On average 6pc of cars up to two years old have broken down in the past year and 32pc of cars in this category had parts repaired or replaced - down 2pc on the previous year.

dcGT

Sleipnir wrote:

"Sadly the likes of Citroen, Fiat, Land Rover, Peugeot, Renault, Rover and Vauxhall (Opel in Ireland) show few signs of following suit," the report says.

Citroen, Fiat and Peugeot....now THERE'S a surprise

Personally, I'm rather surprised at Audi's performance. I was under the impression that the TT had the right balance between style and substance :rolleyes:

DC.

ToxicPaddy

I wouldnt use this guide as a bible but it does seem to be fairly accurate with
some models..

I know Mercedes was having major reliability problems due to the fact that they
were buying in a lot more 3rd party parts and intergrating them into their
engines in the newer models and as a result they werent as resiliant as they
models predating 1996..

Alfa and Fiat have always had reliability issues as have Citreon..

Japanese cars are known for their reliability and if thats what you want then
go for it, but most people who can afford luxury cars can also afford to
change them every 2-3 years and there are very few cars out there that
wont stay reliable for that short period of time, no matter how badly they are
built...

But no matter what make or model of car you pick you will always find someone whos had a bad experience with it..


Tox

HashSlinging

weird didn't skoda (VAG) win this award last year.. or was that the JD power survey.. I've been in the C180 coupe and the build quality is worse than the skoda octavia, but nearly double the price. Nuts ! branding badging bullsh*te..

I always question these magazine publications and where there loyalty is. :rolleyes:

impr0v

dcGT wrote:

Personally, I'm rather surprised at Audi's performance. I was under the impression that the TT had the right balance between style and substance :rolleyes:
DC.

Guy i know bought a second hand one with small mileage in 2002, it was the lower bhp one, 180 vs 250 or something. Anyway about five months after he bought it he was driving northbound on the M50 between the toll plaza and the M3 interchange when the engine blew á la F1. His description of events included plumes of black smoke leaving the back of it, though I'd imagine there was some sort of exaggeration applied. To cut a long story short, the car had to be shipped back to Germany to get the engine completely rebuilt. As far as i know he never drove it again, but I haven't talked to him recently.

Gmodified

yeah,european vs jap discussion .

I wish new alfa had honda running gear or maybe new civic should have alfa body or maybe bmw and honda designer should be shot.

there will be some people that never will be happy but it helps when your car is reliable

alias no.9

dcGT wrote:

Citroen, Fiat and Peugeot....now THERE'S a surprise

Personally, I'm rather surprised at Audi's performance. I was under the impression that the TT had the right balance between style and substance :rolleyes:

DC.

There has been serious issues with ingition coils on the VAG 1.8 20v engine which has resulted in a rather major recall. Until the recent launch of the V6, the TT was fitted only with the 1.8 20v lump in various states of turbos and tuining, this probably accounts for most of this. As for the overall poor performance of vw and audi, it's most likely a combination of this and faulty MAF sensors in the TDi models which by all accounts is a very common problem.

HashSlinging

weird that as I've always thought the 1.8T was a excellent engine. Had spins in 98 A4 1.8T (150), 01 A4 1.8T quattro (163), SEAT leon Cupra (180) bit of lag in the heavy audi's but the Cupra is a beast of a car. must be on the older 1.8 20v with k03 turbos.