Jammed Tram!

Bee

On two occasions mid morning walking by the Store St coroner's court opposite BusAras.....There has been a Q of busses attempting to enter the station right across the tram tracks with a Luas behind them and even more silly a Q of busses on the other side of the building attempting to exit the station!

It looks like one of the old cowboy movies i.e. "circling the wagons with the Luas as the meat in the sandwich!"

Yeah, I know they are only testing the Luas along here at the moment, though I wish the dammed driver would stop playing with his bells, I think it was his bells!:p

Tinkling them in frustration as he waited for the busses to get moving.

Anyone know if they are going to adjust busses exit/entry points along here as currently its a farce on all sides.

BTW they also need to extend the "yellow box" junction on the way into the IFSC as cars/busses/bicycles/prams also block the Luas at this point.


Bee

morlan

LUAS should be given right of way in these cases, in fairness.

They should all be fitted with snow ploughs to scoop them bikes and prams out of the way, on the Red Line at least!

Hecate

They should all be fitted with snow ploughs to scoop them bikes and prams out of the way, on the Red Line at least!

..and to push discarded couches off the tracks. I heard some kids shoved a couch into the path of the tram along line A, forcing it to slow down so they could emerge from the bushes and pelt it with rocks.

On another note; they really need to sort out those 'next tram due' displays on line B; I was heading back from stephens green today and not one of them was working at any stop. The next stop announcements and displays on board the trams only seem to work about half the time aswell; I mean they're both just simple event-driven, real time systems and the hardware can't be *that* unreliable that they fail after barely a month. Small issues but slippery slope and all that.

BrianD

Bus aras has always had its shortcoming, especially now that many of the routes are higher frequency commuter routes. They need some sort of holding area close by for buses (I believe the ramp at Connolly station was used for this at one point). There is a sustem that the buses must follow but I notice many of the drivers like to take the shortcut straight out to Amiens St. Perhaps a second bus terminal is now required

P&L

Busráras is operating waaay above capacity, Bus Éireann are well aware - though I dont know what their plans are to alleviate the problem.

On the question of the new traffic layout there, I have heard many bus drivers saying that it is much better now and that it always should have the way it is now (it keeps their IN/OUT queues better organised), actually it was always supposed to be that way - just too many bus drivers were abusing it. That short-cut onto Amien st. will will be cut out soon too. Sometimes I dont get bus drivers - they have so many people's safety in their hands and they still take ridiculous risks sometimes.

(sorry for the rant, I was on the receiving end of an unprovoked dispensing of abuse by a BÁC driver yesterday, and am still miffed about it)

Oh btw, Bee - If the Tram driver used his warning horn instead of tinkling his bells, you would risen a few feet off the ground!

John R

Originally posted by P&L
Busráras is operating waaay above capacity, Bus Éireann are well aware - though I dont know what their plans are to alleviate the problem.

Apart from moving even more routes out of the station on to already overcrowded city streets there is nothing they can do, Busaras is just too small with no land available for expansion.

On the question of the new traffic layout there, I have heard many bus drivers saying that it is much better now and that it always should have the way it is now (it keeps their IN/OUT queues better organised), actually it was always supposed to be that way - just too many bus drivers were abusing it. That short-cut onto Amien st. will will be cut out soon too. Sometimes I dont get bus drivers - they have so many people's safety in their hands and they still take ridiculous risks sometimes.

Up until the luas works that was a legitimate turn, it was a two-way street with traffic lights at the junction.
In comparison to most other road users bus drivers in general have a very good safety record in Ireland.

P&L

All true, they need another depot on the south side, there was some talk about that at one point?

BrianD

Up until the luas works that was a legitimate turn, it was a two-way street with traffic lights at the junction.

I don't think it ever was as it is too close to the traffic lights. Unless the lights are green the bus will block the road. I think there is a sign inside the terminus saying no right turn.

P&L

AFAIK, it was Bus Éireann's recommended policy not to turn right, but not prohibited by the guys in the blue suits accross the road.

maxheadroom

Originally posted by P&L
All true, they need another depot on the south side, there was some talk about that at one point?

Well originally they were going to flatten temple bar... but that couldn't be what you're talking about?

John R

What is needed is a new station large enough for all Bus Eireann services as well as longer distance city routes and other long distance operators. There is zero chance of that happening There is no available space in the city and even if there was public transport infrastructure would be at the bottom of the list.

P&L

well, Im no expert but I think there is plenty of space in the city, the problem is getting the right location and having the money to buy it. (and thats not going to happen with the current government attitude to Bus Éirean...)

CIÉ do own plenty of land and property Dublin too, so Id say really its not the space but the money and politics.

imo!

John R

CIE do own a good deal of land, but nothing closer to the city centre than Busaras.
The only place I can think of big enough would be Broadstone but it is already home to 3 garages and is too far from the city to be convenient.

You are right though, the government attitude is the main problem. If there was enough political will a first class facility could be built in the city centre.

maxheadroom

Not to harp on about Helsinki, but you should see the huge hole in the ground near Kamppi where they're building their new underground bus terminal and shopping centre...

thejollyrodger

I have to agree, in madrid they have a MASSIVE underground area to hold all the buses. Why cant they do the same in Bus Aras?

Even dig a tunnel a kilometer long north to get the busses out of the main city centre

Bee

I mean they're both just simple event-driven, real time systems and the hardware can't be *that* unreliable that they fail after barely a month

Err......... there was something quoted in a paper about having to "reboot" some PC related kit (a server?) that caused a longer than normal delay. Some time after that I was also delayed on a Luas joyride and the word that floated back from the cabin was that they were "re-booting" the S/W. I don't know if its the same thing or not.

The farce continues a friend from Store St tells me that the Busaras is a major pain in the Aras for the bus drivers as the now high frequency entries and exits are suffering extra delays due to the Luas testing.

One being a mere mortal would imagine that the Busses and the Luas could be synchronised a little around this mad cap corner. I am told by a driver that the recent pavement changes, extended footpaths etc due to the Luas has resulted in further delays as previously the bus could overtake another bus that was entering Busaras but now they are frequently stuck behind them thus causing gridlock for all.

Nice bit of footpath/road use engineering :rolleyes:

A pity that the relevant parties heads are not banged together to come up with a solution.

Bee

John R

Busaras was grossly overcrowded 10 years ago with more roadspace, the Connolly ramp to hold out of service busses and no Luas, no reshuffling of the current space will solve the overcrowding problems.

Victor

Originally posted by Bee
Yeah, I know they are only testing the Luas along here at the moment, though I wish the dammed driver would stop playing with his bells, I think it was his bells!:p

Madam, decorum please

morlan

Guys, it's a long time since i've been in Dublin and friends that visit me keep harping on about LUAS (apparently it means 'fast' as gaelige?). Any chance of a sound sample of its bells?? :dunno:

Victor

Originally posted by morlan
Guys, it's a long time since i've been in Dublin and friends that visit me keep harping on about LUAS (apparently it means 'fast' as gaelige?). Any chance of a sound sample of its bells?? :dunno:

Not sure how to do that, but it's an (amplified) electronic artificial sounding "ding, ding, ding", softer than a bell.

Dub13

Anybody ever been to the Bull Ring Shopping center in Birmingham...now that is what we need.

As for the Bus Station,when the IFCS was at the planing stage they offered land for a new "state of the art" bus station but the Gov of the day would not pay for it.Now we are stuck with a mess.Also its only a small point but Bus Eireann dont even own the Bus Station,they only rent it from the Dep of Social Welfare.So even if it were sold Bus Eireann would not get a penny from the sale....

morlan

Originally posted by Victor
Not sure how to do that, but it's an (amplified) electronic artificial sounding "ding, ding, ding", softer than a bell.

There's two differnet bells isn't there? The normal ding ding ding and then a louder warning one. Somebody told me it would give you a heart attack? And do the trams ding ding ding evertime they move off? The ones in Holland do that.

P&L

I have the two sounds on file somewhere, I'll try and post em tomorrow. And yeah, the 'ding ding ding' almost all the time.

drrnwbb

Originally posted by maxheadroom
Not to harp on about Helsinki, but you should see the huge hole in the ground near Kamppi where they're building their new underground bus terminal and shopping centre...

kamppi website

its scandinavias largest commercial building site apparently, and its coming in ahead of schedule and i think under budget. (despite the 5 months of below freezing weather.)

dw

Hecate

Well originally they were going to flatten temple bar... but that couldn't be what you're talking about?

Now *that* would have been a good idea

Temple bar seemed great at first but now its just turned into a venue for stag parties and a hang out for scumbags. This would have actually been somthing practical, a large transportation hub smack bang in the centre of town. CIE owned nearly all the land around there at the time, and everything was on short term lease so it could have been done very easily.

I think I have the design drawings in a book somewhere, they were very much in the same style as the central bank.

AngelofFire

They really should of run the Luas under ground in certain parts of the inner city.The fact that the Green and Red Lines dont meet is another pain.Whenever a tram system was built in other european cities the first two lines always linked. If i get the tram from Dundrum to the city centre.ive to walk for another 10-15 mins to get to the Abbey street to Tallaght Line

Bee

Originally posted by John R
Busaras was grossly overcrowded 10 years ago with more roadspace, the Connolly ramp to hold out of service busses and no Luas, no reshuffling of the current space will solve the overcrowding problems.

I normally try to keep away from this area in the city as I hate the IFSC but when duty calls.....
A simple non- engineer like me (even though my Dad was brilliant!) why did the

1. *** ****** engineers not take into account the increased congestion created here by mixing Luas and busses? ( A cynical friend says that the reason is that ***'s head honcho has said and wants to prove his pet idea (theory) that Luas is a costly mistake and transport could have been improved by massively increasing "super quality" solely dedicated bus lanes at a fraction of the cost of Luas.

2. Can I say "Luas engineers" without being banned again? did not take into account the congestion created by mixing busses and Luas together at BusAras?

Expalnations on a postcard please to this board..addressed to Bee a mere ripped off tax payer.

Bee

P.S. the use of asterisk's is an attempt to prevent being banned for not expressing the same opinions as the moderator

Bee;)

Bee

Originally posted by AngelofFire
They really should of run the Luas under ground in certain parts of the inner city.The fact that the Green and Red Lines dont meet is another pain.Whenever a tram system was built in other european cities the first two lines always linked. If i get the tram from Dundrum to the city centre.ive to walk for another 10-15 mins to get to the Abbey street to Tallaght Line

I have always made the same point, why reduce road space and create congestion?

I know Dublin is full of Philistines but the destruction of the landscape create dby overhead cabling around Dublin is a disgrace.

Bee

Victor

Originally posted by Bee
I have always made the same point, why reduce road space and create congestion?

Expanding roadspace tends to merely expand demand, filling that roadspace and resulting in no improvement.

Bee

Originally posted by Victor
Expanding roadspace tends to merely expand demand, filling that roadspace and resulting in no improvement.

How come then that QBC's are not filled with busses?

Or tram/rail lines are not filled with carraiges?

Or the sky is not filled with airplanes?

Simply because there is more space available than trams/busses/airplanes...Your arguement has many logical flaws Victor, not least is that you assume everyone wants to drive in the city centre.

People of the calibre that gave us the Red cow MadAbout possessing the lack of foresight of an ant probably thought that "lets make it really awkward, we won't build roads/flyovers sure it will only encourage cars!!! and doubles all around for the geniass that stuck traffic lights on it!" Presumably the same cretins become aroused by reducing roadspace to hinder progress.Or beter still install tolls and make plenty of "donations" to your favorite political party to keep the status quo. Of course if you are not in a job that generates profits and are rewarded on results why be arsed about simple things like traffic! It makes perfect sense then to employ civil servants to engineer traffic in Dublin.

Bee

Bee

Any one got any realistic proposals on how to resolve the farce twixt Luas and Busses at Busaras.? I won't even mention the taxi's/Garda cars etc that are also there.


Bee

John R

Originally posted by Bee
How come then that QBC's are not filled with busses?

Or tram/rail lines are not filled with carraiges?

Or the sky is not filled with airplanes?

Are you living on a different planet to the rest of us?

QBC's (proper ones anyway) are filled with buses
Irish Rail are spending millions to increase the capacity of the Dart through longer trains and more frequent services.
Dublin airport is bursting at the seams, why do you think there are constant demands for a new terminal?

Simply because there is more space available than trams/busses/airplanes...Your arguement has many logical flaws Victor, not least is that you assume everyone wants to drive in the city centre.

Everyone (or as close to everyone as makes no difference) does. It is only because of financial and logistical (nowhere to park the offending vehicle) constraints that so many people use public transport now.

People of the calibre that gave us the Red cow MadAbout possessing the lack of foresight of an ant probably thought that "lets make it really awkward, we won't build roads/flyovers sure it will only encourage cars!!! and doubles all around for the geniass that stuck traffic lights on it!" Presumably the same cretins become aroused by reducing roadspace to hinder progress.Or beter still install tolls and make plenty of "donations" to your favorite political party to keep the status quo. Of course if you are not in a job that generates profits and are rewarded on results why be arsed about simple things like traffic! It makes perfect sense then to employ civil servants to engineer traffic in Dublin.

No discussion is complete without a rambling rant about all those one despises is it?

Victor

Various locations have been touted for bus stations, including many moons ago, the site at Wood Quay that now has the Civic Offices.

Two possible solutions would be (a) remove all the non-long distance routes from Busaras and (b) build a new station as part of the Grangegorman / Broadstone redevelopment or in the Docklands.

Originally posted by Bee
Any one got any realistic proposals on how to resolve the farce twixt Luas and Busses at Busaras.?

Possibly by reversing the flow of busses through the station. I'm not sure if there are any technical restraints on this though.

morlan

Originally posted by Victor

Two possible solutions would be (a) remove all the non-long distance routes from Busaras and (b) build a new station as part of the Grangegorman / Broadstone redevelopment or in the Docklands. Possibly by reversing the flow of busses through the station. I'm not sure if there are any technical restraints on this though.

Now that's an idea. If the LUAS could extended down to the docklands and connect with the bus station and then eventually join with the red line. That would be ideal.

Bee

Two possible solutions would be (a) remove all the non-long distance routes from Busaras and (b) build a new station as part of the Grangegorman / Broadstone redevelopment or in the Docklands

Excellent point Victor. Perhaps if they could find space to build a few major bus stations near motorways at major public access points that lead into Dublin via Dart/Rail/Luas it would do us all some service.

Why oh Why, can't they tackle the obvious screw up along Busaras prior to the Luas going live to ensure free flowing Luas movement?

Currently its a farce. You will have Luas blaming Busses and in turn they will blame Dublin **** ******* for its traffic control.

At the very least I would change the entrance/exit points and have it traffic light controlled.

All parties need to be sat around a table now! Prior to it going live and causing consternation.

Bee

Bee

Originally posted by John R
Are you living on a different planet to the rest of us?

Yes, I have come to take over your planet!:cool:

QBC's (proper ones anyway) are filled with buses

Being more southside based perhaps I am missing something but anytime I cycle paralell to many QBC's I have never found them filled with busses. I also need to drive on frequent occassions and also have witnessed few busses in QBC's!

Please enlighten me so I can perhaps take photographs of the bus filled QBC's
Are we reaching a situation of bus congestion in QBC's? I propose double decker QBC's to alleviate the bus congestion.;)


No discussion is complete without a rambling rant about all those one despises is it?

I don't despise anyone. I come from a long line of engineers that worked in mission critical situations where failure was not an option. If anything I get frustrated easily when I see tax payers money being mis- spent time after time when with a little fore sight and professionalism all of the major hurdles could be overcome.

Bee

I work in a different profession to engineering but believe me you would not want me to make any mistakes if I was err...doing something for you