Urban/Rural cross-subsidisation

BrianD

Guys. I am stunned that a group that has raised important issues is the past is WASTING ITS TIME on this issue!! Ok so I missed the fact that the photos are of the same location - I wouldn't be surprised if the site owner accidently demolished the pole to create an access to the road.

It looks bad but as long as it functions who cares. Perhaps it's a temporary fix, who cares. The issue of servicing one off housing is important as few telecoms companies have to deal with the sub standard development plans that implemented in Ireland. ESAT and other telecoms must smile when they see the extent of the network that Eircom have to maintain. You maintain it and we'll piggyback on it. I think that any telecoms owner would be keen to rationalise their fixed line services to rural swellers.

You don't hear people complaining about a lack of a telephone service (no service, out of order etc.) as you used in the P and T days when Ireland's phone network was in the dark ages. The issues that are pressing is the future telecoms development not the odd piece of creative wiring. As I said, I'm sure every phone co. has its hall of shame.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by BrianD
Guys. I am stunned that a group that has raised important issues is the past is WASTING ITS TIME on this issue!!

Fairly important if you're on the end of one of these lines, I would imagine.

DonegalMan

Originally posted by BrianD
You don't hear people complaining about a lack of a telephone service (no service, out of order etc.)

But you will hear quite a few complaining about 28/33 Kbps connections.

..as you used in the P and T days when Ireland's phone network was in the dark ages.

That was in the late 70's. By the mid 80's we had what was reckoned to be one of the best networks in Europe, if not the world - a big selling point for inward investment at the time. It's been all downhill since then.

The issues that are pressing is the future telecoms development not the odd piece of creative wiring.

These may be extreme examples - I honestly don't know* - but Eircom is allowing the network to deteriorate at present and if this continues, how will the network cope with current demands, let alone future development?

Martin


(*Let's get the photos and see how widespread it is)

sceptre

Originally posted by BrianD
It looks bad but as long as it functions who cares.

I'm lucky enough to be within a few hundred metres of a city centre exchange (the long way around) but despite my lack of experience with lines sitting in a bog (forgot to take pictures when I visited Achill), I'd imagine that the problem people caught with such a line have is the "as long as it functions" part, both now and next year (and the year after that ad infinitum).

gandalf

BrianD you don't work for Eircom by any chance?

This issue is extremely important. On of the main things that society should be as inclusive as possible, it should be interested in is allowing all it citizens no matter where they live to have the same ability to go about their daily lives with as many of the amenities possible to do so. Communications infrastructure is an important part of this. It would also be a very important part of the government’s strategy of de-centralisation. How can people who live in rural areas get any kind of service when they are served by this "duct & string" infrastructure?

I do not blame Eircom here; they are a foreign owned commercial enterprise milking their customers for every penny they can get out of the country. They do not care about a long term strategy beyond flogging the company off to the highest bidder.

Our fight isn't with them; it’s with the people who make decisions in this country, our politicians. Now the current Minister has actually done a hell of alot more than his predecessor (that wasn't hard!). We have to make these people realise that broadband and communications doesn't need a piece of copper connecting both ends. Also we need them along with Comreg to start asking Eircom why if we are paying one of the highest line rental charges in the world do we have examples of 19th Century wiring like those in the pictures above.

oscarBravo

I was going to reply to this. Then I thought, why waste time arguing with the guy who thinks Eircom are entitled to make more out of porn dialler scams than the porn dialler scammers? Then I realised that there is a bigger picture here, so here we go again. Read slowly Brian, and make sure you get it all this time.

Originally posted by BrianD
Guys. I am stunned that a group that has raised important issues is the past is WASTING ITS TIME on this issue!! Ok so I missed the fact that the photos are of the same location - I wouldn't be surprised if the site owner accidently demolished the pole to create an access to the road.

What is with the idle speculation? If you want, I'm perfectly prepared to bring you on a little tour of the straight, wide main road this cable follows and show you the crap state of several miles of it. This isn't a site; it's a field (the auctioneer's sign is pointing up a side road opposite). The pole isn't demolished; it's leaning precariously as is almost every other pole for miles along that road - not an uncommon sight in these parts.

This is a shoddy repair job. End of story.

It looks bad but as long as it functions who cares.

Do you think those lines will carry DSL? Do you think maybe the people who use those lines care about that? Westport is DSL-enabled, you know.

Perhaps it's a temporary fix, who cares.

Define "temporary." How long is it OK to leave it like that? I'm not sure how long it's been that way, but I'm pretty sure it's been quite a while. As to who cares - you think maybe the people paying the highest line rental in the developed world for that chewing-gum and baling-twine solution might maybe care?

The issue of servicing one off housing is important as few telecoms companies have to deal with the sub standard development plans that implemented in Ireland.

This. Is. Not. A. Line. To. A. Once. Off. House.

To have a stab at answering Damien's question: there are three large lines running along those poles. If each was a thirty-pair, that's 90 pairs. Taking for granted that at the very least a substantial percentage of those are pairgained, you start to see the extent of the problem.

ESAT and other telecoms must smile when they see the extent of the network that Eircom have to maintain. You maintain it and we'll piggyback on it. I think that any telecoms owner would be keen to rationalise their fixed line services to rural swellers.

Rationalising I can live with. Allowing it to fall apart and charging twenty-five yoyos a month for the privilege borders on the criminal.

You don't hear people complaining about a lack of a telephone service (no service, out of order etc.) as you used in the P and T days when Ireland's phone network was in the dark ages.

Maybe you don't - I do. Do you honestly think repair jobs like that work indefinitely?

The issues that are pressing is the future telecoms development not the odd piece of creative wiring. As I said, I'm sure every phone co. has its hall of shame.

Still waiting for your pictures from Germany.

dahamsta

BrianD has never addressed a single question put to him about his comments on any subject he's posted on Paul, even though many people such as yourself have courteously tried to point out the stark failures in his logic and thinking. In other words, he's either a troll, an Eircom hack, or just plain thick. Some posters are best just added to your Ignore List and forgotten.

Leave it man, he's not worth it.

adam

cgarvey

Originally posted by BrianD
Perhaps we should look at higher service charges for people who decide to live in such environments?

People in remote areas already pay a higher installation (pole-based) fee, although I don't know how remote you have to be for that. I'm not sure if that still applies, but I know of 2 cases where there was an additional pole charge as recent as 18 months ago.

The remote areas I'm talking about only get 9.6Kbps-12Kbps dial up speeds, so they're certainly paying higher subscription vs. service charges that most urban dwellers.

.cg

BrianD

BrianD has never addressed a single question put to him about his comments on any subject he's posted on Paul, even though many people such as yourself have courteously tried to point out the stark failures in his logic and thinking. In other words, he's either a troll, an Eircom hack, or just plain thick. Some posters are best just added to your Ignore List and forgotten.

Pretty lazy remark, dahamsta that appears to become your hallmark. Clearly you are not up to any debate on the subject. Oh, I forgot I don't always agree with the Eircom rants that populate this board. Once you do discuss the issue you get the following:

BrianD you don't work for Eircom by any chance?

How childish but typical of this board. You don't agree with the ranting masses so therefore you must work for eircom.

I have never answered a question? Really, perhaps somebody might pose one sometime. Who were you calling thick?

jwt

Originally posted by oscarBravo
What is with the idle speculation?

Originally posted by oscarBravo
Do you think those lines will carry DSL? Do you think maybe the people who use those lines care about that?

Originally posted by oscarBravo
Westport is DSL-enabled, you know. Define "temporary." How long is it OK to leave it like that?

Originally posted by oscarBravo
Do you honestly think repair jobs like that work indefinitely?

Enough questions posed ?

I think you will find quite a few people don't agree with Eircom bashing just for the sake of it. Either for or against; make your statement and back it up with facts.

That said it's understandable that people post here when they are at the end of their tether, and not just with Eircom, look at posts about Leap, IBB, EsatNoLimits etc.

John

BrianD

Well done guys. Did you really expect answers to these questions??? Did you really expect me to know how long this very specific repair is going to last? Who cares! You guys go out and take plenty of pictures and post 'em all up here as it is pretty obvious you are unable to grasp the broader issues that this board, as I understand it, was set up to discuss.

Then I thought, why waste time arguing with the guy who thinks Eircom are entitled to make more out of porn dialler scams than the porn dialler scammers?

I'm really tired of debating this one plus I never said that Eircom were entitled to make money from porn diallers. They can and they do due to a lack of personal responsibility (now there's a concept that seems to be lost on Irish society) by PC users. Why waste time argueing? You never have! You only rant on.

Then I realised that there is a bigger picture here, so here we go again.

Good, let's start discussing it ... no hang on, you won't. There is a substantial issue about the servicing of one off rural housing that affects all types of service providers and ultimately all of us. How do we deal with it? How do we price these services etc. But they again it's a lot easier to slag off some shoddy engineering work.

Good night, I'm off to check my Eircom bill. BTW, the personal insults and snipes don't bother me but think most would prefer if you stick to the topic.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by BrianD
Well done guys. Did you really expect answers to these questions???

Frankly, no, but I never get tired of being right.

Did you really expect me to know how long this very specific repair is going to last? Who cares!

Once again, I strongly suspect the people trying to squeeze data through it might be a tad concerned. Who, specifically, has to be affected before you concede there's a problem here?

You guys go out and take plenty of pictures and post 'em all up here as it is pretty obvious you are unable to grasp the broader issues that this board, as I understand it, was set up to discuss.

This is one of the issues this board was set up to discuss. Don't you dare lecture me about the broader issues: I've been attending IrelandOffline meetings since Martin Harran was chair. I confronted Soula Evans at the seminar in the Conrad. I was on the committee until last Saturday. I've helped set up a new organisation to proactively help solve these problems.

What have you done, again?

Good, let's start discussing it ... no hang on, you won't.

Actually, I am. The state of the access network in Ireland is one of the obstacles in the way of affordable, universally accessible Internet connectivity. It is, therefore, part of IrelandOffline's stated remit.

Now, let's discuss that. Either (a) you don't believe the state of the access network is an obstacle, or (b) you don't agree with IrelandOffline's stated remit. Which is it?

There is a substantial issue about the servicing of one off rural housing that affects all types of service providers and ultimately all of us. How do we deal with it? How do we price these services etc. But they again it's a lot easier to slag off some shoddy engineering work.

Either you're an idiot, you're too lazy to read my posts, or you're deliberately ignoring an important point here:

This is not a line to a one-off house!

To the best of my knowledge, this line serves the entire south coast of Clew Bay. Unless the entire population of Murrisk, Louisburgh and everyone in between lives in a big house somewhere, this is not a line to a one-off house!

Now that we've cleared that up, what's your point?

Good night, I'm off to check my Eircom bill. BTW, the personal insults and snipes don't bother me but think most would prefer if you stick to the topic.

The topic at hand is the state of Eircom's access network. What did you think we were discussing?

Moriarty

This is a thread split from this one in the ireland offline forum.

lucernarian

My phone line was installed in the quality days of the early '80s (i still get 46.6kbps but no bb) although I've noticed that there is a 30 pair (i think) wire connected to the grey box. This grey box connects to a wire underground at the end of the road. The wire in question lasts about 100m by pole and then is cable tied to a pole. The end is unterminated and any person or child can easily touch the bare copper wires. Not one house is connected to it, i.e. it is pointless. There are 2 other black wires connected to the grey box that are in use.
Have eircom engineers nothing better to do than to connect an extra 30 pair only to leave it dangling beside a pole? BTW it was done in the last 12 mths