Team Play ? *SHAZBOT*

tHE vAGGABOND

Just to get some opinions, and a decient discussion going....

I realise I am by no means a ninja - far from it (some would say rubbish almost, not me i must say, I recon I rule the server;p, but the arguement could be made that I am biased ) - but when I am playing what annoys me most is punters standing around either doing nothing or hogging inv stations - whats going on. PPl log on to games and then stand around and do nothing ????????????

No one wants to be the punter placing/re-placing turrets and repairing stuff. But when someone is seen to be doing that there always seem to be very little help around. The 'He's doing it, so I wont bother' mentality?

I recon for tribes to be played well its 65% defence at least and 35% offence not the other way around? Most games have between 1 and 3 points between them. Thats about 1 total minute in 60 a defender might be under pressure, but to win (which is the eventual goal of most of us - after booze, birds/blokes {as appropiate} and having a laugh)you must do it

Am I mad or what, gis some opinions, I'd like to hear from soem of you SS, MS or CC lads, anyone

PS: How do you do that thing in the light vehicle and stealing the flag without getting out - I tried it and made a mess of myself several times *YOU IDIOT*

PPS: is there a way to change the voice tree, like when you press *you idiot* you could get *Jasus TEd arent I an awfel eejet* or something

Dr_Teeth

I agree that it's annoying when people on public servers don't 'pull their weight' alright - but that's what makes being in a Tribe great I suppose.

I don't really mind it myself - I prefer when noone tries to setup turrets, sensors and Inv Stations, because I have very fixed views on where they should go.

Things that do annoy me are people who don't set favorites, people who never support/protect their flag carrier, and people who TK.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on defense though. It *is* important, but getting a 'decent' defense together that does the job is a lot easier than getting an effective offensive strike organised. Between respawners and turrets/mines etc a base can be made fairly difficult to assault without a dedicated uber-ninja defense team - but effective offense is a lot harder, for just that reason. Look at dangerous crossing - that takes seriously good play on the part of attackers (or at least, PLENTY of team-work) to cap flags, whilst the defenders just have to mill around shooting stuff and respawn right next to the attackers if they die.

Organised tribal games are different, but for public servers I usually put down the best static defense I can, then get out there and try to make a serious impact on the game by going for the enemy flag (hands up all those muppets who spend an hour on Scarabae taking and retaking that silly tower whilst I fly far around it capping flag after flag! )

Mind you, if there are decent players on the other team I usually never get the chance to go off having fun, and spend the whole game repairing turrets and killing attackers outside the base. One thing I have noticed is that defenders are more effective if they're OUTSIDE the base, chasing the attackers in - the attackers are trapped between your turreted/mined corridors and YOU. They've no time to be cautious and usually blunder into traps if they know they're being followed inside.

Another thing I've found is that a lot of people don't use the map enough. If I'm not doing anything in particular (like fighting, or laying stuff) I'm usually looking at the map - like once every few seconds - in 1.2 it's great to be able to walk and look at the map at the same time! On Broadside last week I was doing this, and calling out 'Incoming' when attackers where boosting towards the front of the base and one guy came up to me and asked me how I knew that people where coming since I was inside!! I barely resisted the urge to cut him down.

Ho hum.. back home for more Brood Wars, and maybe Tribes.

Teeth.

ChungKing

Right now i'm pretty steamed myself - just left ign on snowblind after about 3.5 hours of frustration and hell - saw both of you on & was against you all nite - CCJag & myself (for the most part) against wunderkinds like fiend, yerself, teeth, and if I remember correctly, against you vaggabond.

Well, i'm still pretty new myself & learning, but i'd wager you guys have had a few times where the team wont pull together & you have bozos who are completely lost - i don't mean newbies as such, i mean guys you figure are newbies and u try and help & get them to join in with 'use the y key to talk to team - please respond' blah blah rather than yelling at them.

...but by snowblind we were beat - jag had absolutely no support on offense & myself on defense vs. fiend/teeth/sherpa (not all at once all the time, granted, but usually coordinated-like) just didn't work... even when jag did get the flag we were both trying to get people to cover, but no...

Anyway, enough whining - I learned tonite that, on snowblind at least and probably most other maps, one heavy or one lite on defense just doesn't cut it vs two lites - i'd repel attacks once, then be damaged, need repairs or need ammo (asked for of my team, but nada) - and subsequently was often was caught sleeping as i was trying to sort myself out. But on that map - myself with jag or Brit PTT (who's really good, IMO) have dominated on defense - just ensuring we had a good perimiter with pulse sensors & one heavy for mortaring & one lite to run around - support the heavy & clean up those who get thru the mortars. So, at least in snowblind, I think you can completely shut down offensive actions. And, i admit - i've been the muppet in the centre tower in scarabrae but i have to say, Brit PTT & I held that pretty much for the whole game against some good guys him in heavy & me in lite... we had good support at base tho, too. I love defense, but dammit you need support definitely.

Also - i probably should have done as you suggested being outside the snowblind base, but in lite instead of heavy that way i could swoop in and take out invaders - heavy was a misjudgment for tonites situation, i guess.

As well, maybe our leadership was wanting still, I'll remember a few of those names tonight for the future - if they're on my team I'll still try and help, but if they're against me - sweet revenge >:-)

Ah well - Just joined Clan Compliance so maybe we'll get our act together & have some good battles in the future.

Cheers you guys!
CK

ps vaggabond - that tactic drives me crazy! I have to work on my chaingun cos those scouts swooping in to get the flag are from hell! grrr that happened a few times tonite

tHE vAGGABOND

The game b4 snow blind told a tale though - you guys got out flag in seconds and never again cos I had guys on the mountains and cameras everywhere and all snipers got milled after 2 or 3 shots. There were two of us in heavy at the flag all the time rotating the turret positions so punters would think they knew where they were and would come back and KABLAMO (as Bruce Wane wound say!!)

I also tried they fly with the flag thing last night and crashed every time

YuM

Tiz a defenders life for me.... UNLESS there's another guy around doing maintenance then depending on the map I grab my Rifle (broadside) or medium armour (snowblind) and do the perimeter annoying the wee flyguys setting up turrets in wierd places and mines to break the happy flag carriers heart..

I coudent count the amount of times I shouted for more defence on broadside last night but everyone seemed to want to trade mortor fire outside.. Not even attacking ;-{ .. arrragh pointless.

Split the ninja's up.. being a defender against 2 or 3 of the good offensive type (ya know who ye are) can be fun for a while but after half an hour of frantic defending I want me Mammy to tuck me into bed with a warm bottle... twitch.blink..twitch...

YuM

---

Dr_Teeth

It wasn't all cake and biccies on offense last night either ya know Chung. Myself and Fiend were the only people on constant offense for the Snowblind game (we had a killer defense though!) it's seriously difficult to make an impression on the Snowblind base as a lone light guy - especially with one or two dedicated heavies, a couple of lights, and a bunch of turrets thrown in for good measure.

For that level you really need a couple of heavies on the mountain infront of that base, pounding everything and everyone around it - with a couple of lights legging it in just afterwards.

btw - Who was the guy who got our flag, flew high in the air and cratered half-way home? That was hilarious - there was no way I could catch him, and then suddenly there was his corpse on the ground..

Teeth.

ChungKing

Ha Ha - I think that was [CC]Jaguar - at least that's the only time that night on snowblind I noticed us getting your flag at all! :-)

You're right Dr_Teeth re. offense - being a single lite attacking on snowblind (as Jaguar was) can be pretty hard. But two good co-ordinated players, i think, can make a big impact. You should have seen me panicking & shouting sh*t sh*t sh*t as I scrambled to get my heavy out of the path of the grenades you poured in our doorway :-). In this case, your point above about trapping people as they enter your flag room has much merit, I think.

And vag - sounds like a nice setup you had on in base on scarabrae - I love shutting down base incursions, yeah! Access Denied! Now if I could only get yannos not to walk over my mines even after i told him about them heh-heh....

YuM -

re being tucked into bed - actually my mother was visiting my flat last night, but had gone home (as I was about as communicative as an old bood -'uh yeah, uh sure mom, uh, just one second'... silly woman visited as I was playing) By the time I went whimpering to my bed there was no one *sniff*

Anyway, looking forward to tonite - (no work tomorrow *YaY*) see ya there if yer will ing and able (and if I don't get dragged off to the pub- jet packing after guinness makes me dizzy :-)

tHE vAGGABOND

Yea, lets get two or three good games goin tonite, say starting at 8.

I have to say again we have to get a couple of organised tribes goin...... Britt whats up with PTT?, or whats MS's deal now MP is gone? is CC our only tribe ?

What is those starslayer guys game - they turn up once in a blue moon - mill us all and we dont see them for ages, how many of the '90' members are actually r in Ireland or the UK.

vagga

ChungKing

8 sounds good - damn it's almost that time already ...

I may drop out for a bit, tho, around 9 or so to help a buddy of mine & CC Tool's who plans to start playing tonite. Gonna set up a game with him & show him the ropes, such as favourites, target laser, repairing, etc.

A complete newbie, but he has been playing (a) half-life using the proper 'mouse & keyboard' configs -so not a 'complete' newbie, and (b) played the training missions for the last 2 nites...hopefully he'll be up to speed reasonably quickly

And, if not, he'll die alot

Catch ya later!

CK

Hecate

stating the obvious lads...of course when ur playing on the net with a group of ppl you dont know, theyre not exactly gonna start taking orders....i dont think many players have quite grasped the concept of teamplay yet, they still play it as if it were a Quake war, which it most certainly isnt.

On the defense issue; I quite enjoy defending actually...never seems to get boring. I love grabbing a medium and laying down some turrets in nicely concealed positions, and when the enemy falls victim to them, u get the extremely satisfying "wtf!?" factor

Fiend

That is so true Hecate. So many muppets in ign.ie server running around like headless chickens it's not funny. They just don't listen and go off seeking enemies to fight. I bark out orders for people to defend and repair the flipping base but I always end up repairing it myself. I repair the damn base then go out and capture the flag. Come back and base destroyed again. I tell people to defend it but they just don't listen and have meaningless fights all over the map. If they are going for the flag I wouldn't be as annoyed. Man i have too short a temper for this crap. Must... control... urge... to... KEEL... muppets... in... same... team...

ChungKing

Yeah you're right Hecate - but it's so damn frustrating - I hate losing!

Last night pretty much the same formula happened map after map - game starts, I rush out with inv station & set up turrets - repel attack number 1, usually repel attack number 2, am running around trying to housekeep our defenses, calling for help, rearming or repairing stuff near me and WHAMMO - flag away ...

Scara brae went well, though - probly cos fiend hadn't connected against me - I learned a bit from the hammerings the night before and baby sat the flag room - e.g. did not mine the flag right after placing a turret near it (the nite before I found out that an enemy grenade + mine + turret + me = death 4me + flag capture heh) and held the flag all nite... still lost the game though with a last second capture of the central tower DOH! But it was a very good game thanks to people like FishD and SigD on our team - major kudos to them...

And dammit, I still find snowblind hard to defend! I had some decent (if slightly uneven) support there, but i kept doing stupid things like defend, repel, defend against the next guy, repel, start to defend against the next guy, and fall off the side of the hill, watching through tears of frustration and screaming NOOOOO as I slid into oblivion and heard the 'thwip!' of the flag being snagged ... still think you need two-3 dedicated defense guys there against any serious opposition...if only to make up for my mistakes ...

Anyway happy paddy's day & all that - see ya in the pub!

---

That which thy fathers bequeathed to thee,
earn it anew if thou wouldst possess it - Goethe, Faust

[This message has been edited by ChungKing (edited 17-03-99).]

Hecate

one thing u also need on certain maps (especially Scarabrae) is a pretty decent pilot who:

a) doesnt crash into mountains a lot (guilty

b) will grab an apc for 2-4 heavies who need it for an assault

c) is good at evading missles from the ground

d) can land on the roof of a base with accuracy

e) knows when to bail out

the last one is the most important imho, as the pilot knows his craft is in the redline and will go up like a firecracker at the next hit, this can make the difference between a successful assault and a failure. I do enjoy acting as a taxi service along with defending aswell...although my piloting skills do need a bit of work, i think Teeth can back me up on this

Jaguar

Yes it was me that cratered in sowblind but i had a good reason.

I learned that if yer low on health with not much chance of survival, then you fly dead high into the air and press ctrl-f and throw the flag as far as possible towards your base, i must admit it has only worked once or twice but taking the chance is better than just getting snuffed by the pursuers.


That nite really ****ed me off cos there was some a**hole on that kept blowing up my defence turrets even though he was on my team. and there was another one who just would not help at all. I was ****ing back to base with the flag calling for cover, i crest this hill and think thank god someones here to help, but he just wanders off and tries to mortar the ground to death.

Ah well! Tribes kicks ass when there are no messers as Chunking and i found out last week when i first played on his team. But it takes only one messer and the whole game can be ruined

Dr_Teeth

*sigh*. Scarabae flag room is a pain in the ass if someone decides to camp it as a shielded heavy for the whole game. The problem is getting a heavy in there to mortar the crap out of him - when you're on a team of complete muppets this is just impossible. If *you* go heavy, then noone gives you a lift. If you *do* manage to get a lift (hammering V-R-A for 5 mins solid) then you'll get some total idiot who flys you at a constant altitude and heading RIGHT AT THE CENTRAL TOWER and you get blown out of the sky (looks suspiciously at Hecate ). If by some miracle you eventually manage to get past the base balcony and inside, your light 'escort' runs on ahead and gets turned into red wallpaper - leaving you as a heavy, alone, in the nme base with a flag and no way home.. PLUS the nme flag room has about 3 spawn points in it - meaning you have to get in, kill, and get out fast or people start popping out of thin air all around you..

A least on levels like Snowblind, Iceblind, Rollercoaster, Stonehenge etc one light guy who knows what he's at can get the job done.

I'm getting great pings to Barrys at the moment, I spent most of yesterday there playing to totally MAD T&H levels. Anyone here played Skyjack? It's insane - there's one floating base, with one ship along side it, and another above it - all are objectives - oh, and they're all about 3000ft off the ground.

Teeth.

ChungKing

I discovered how easy it is to guard the flag room on scarabrae - especially after figuring out how to use shields effectively (still learning . I can imagine it's pretty impossible w/o good support which is really what we've been talking about, isn't it?

I logged on to Barrys number 5 (i think) yesterday morning as well and it was very cool. Didn't know the maps well, but that skyjack one was stunning Really evoked a sense of assaulting an nme starship the first time I missed the entrance and fell a zillion miles to the ground below - I was like 'holy sh*t'

Definitely going to be checking out barrys more often.

Might see you tonite, then

later

Dr_Teeth

Aye, I'll probably wander along after 8 sometime..

One thing I really don't like about some of the servers I've used in the last while is the number of mods being added - most of them are REALLY bad, and don't add anything to the game. One I played earlier this week had a bunch of new weapons and deployables - like a shielded deployable turret (ARGH!!!! how the F**K are you supposed to kill these??) deployable shields (interesting, but still really unfair) and silly weapons like a rocket launcher (which doesn't seek, so whats the point? - and if it *did* seek it would be very unfair). The damn thing also cleared all my favorites lists when I joined the server! Grr..

Teeth.

tHE vAGGABOND

I played on a US server yest night and they had the flag surrounded by a shield - only enterance was through 2 heavys, ploping mortars on my light pee wee ass - so next time I decide to go to nuke the generator to cause a touch of havoc by nukin the shields for all but one small gap with 3 heavys - it took four of my team together about 5 mins to get pass em - and once inside muggings gets raped by two turrets *doh*

BOOO down with cheatin shilded bstards, I'm not a huge fan of sensor jammers either

I was messin in Scarabae yesterday and put around 10 cameras down and went sniping while giving instructuctions - even managed to get one beside their base so I could see their flag ccooooooooool - mobile infantry 'Starship Troopers' style
see yas later

Shinji

My BW pings are actually better than my IGN pings a lot of the time... which is why I haven't played on IGN for ages. Also because BW play C&H more, and I far prefer that to CTF...

Yes, Skyjack is ubelievably cool. Can we have it on the IGN server please?

(It's also a superb muppet-killer... bwahahaha!)

As to the earlier topic, about offence/defence people... What drives me nuts is spending the whole time back at base in defence, usually with nobody to help out, and then in the middle of a heavy assault, hearing some bloody wannabe ninja announce that he's "going offence" or that he wants an APC pickup... Grr.

I'm not bad in defence, but I'm a sniper or pilot at heart, and I do _not_ like having to back up a team of muppets who wouldn't know defence if it hit them in the *****with a Size 10 boot...

Ja na,
Shin-chan

ChungKing

Buenas Dias, Guys!

Coffeeee, mmmmmmm. Feel a LOT better this morning than yesterday And I think I speak for many, I'm sure (Shinji - nobody has a monopoly on self-inflicted damage - nobody!

This is a long post, but i don't think I'll be on for most of the weekend so ...

Last nite was pretty damn cool - started off the evening on Barry's C&H and got some excellent action in on skyjack , the tunnels & the like. And no lag at all, massive amounts of people, big fragfest. I think, though, that there is a lot less 'teamplay' involved in these maps. Not that you wouldn't completely kick @ss on them with a good team, but you can definitely get away with the lone gunman role ... but maybe i haven't played them enough...

On IGN CTF maps, though, we know well that teamplay is essential. And last night was class. After barrys i logged on & somehow we managed to get a team with Teeth, Brit PTT, Moon, CCTool, and other fine players up against the likes of SigD, CCJaguar , sherpa and (at times) Fiend. The enemy was definitely undermanned in terms of good players (those 4 weren't always logged on at the same time) and i did feel a bit guilty at times (i myself have been up against the likes of my teammates last night with nothing but Jag & myself & a serious numberof Jim Hensons & Frank Oz's) ... but it had been a while since i'd been on a winning team, so for once I got a chance to do some offense and self-indulgence won me over

I'm starting to think that the best thing to do if you find yourself on a team of newbies in CTF maps - with maybe, say, one other good player - is to go offense. Defense is of supreme importance, of course, but if you are the only guy on defense vs. a good enemy then it's a losing prospect. Maybe it would be better for the 'experienced' players to go out in coordinated offense and grab the enemy flag - then regroup, get the flag carrier in a shielded heavy and the other experienced player can head out to return the flag if it's been grabbed by the enemy due to poor defense. That way you can leave the newbies to their own devices, for the most part, maybe with a little encouragement and direction during the game (not that they always listen, heh)

I think this would work reasonably well on Snowblind...

On scarabrae I've been baby-sitting (camping)on the flag in a shielded heavy of late - this is mostly due to a couple of previous games where teeth/sherpa/fiend kept capping our flag ... but it sucks sitting there. As Teeth stated last night, it is close on impossible for the enemy to get in. Great our flag room is impregnable (meaning, it can't get pregnant), but it's not very exciting. Instead, I think I'll do what Hecate was doing well last night (on teeth's suggestion i think), which is to defend from the roof and follow them in. Set up basic defenses, then set up a barbie on the roof (notice it's always sunny and wait for them to come to ya... yeah - more challenging, more risky, sure, but more FUN!

Lastly - sorry about the long post - I wont be seeing much of you guys this weekend as my girlfriend is coming over from london & I'll be otherwise occupied

Happy Hunting!

CK

[This message has been edited by ChungKing (edited 19-03-99).]

tHE vAGGABOND

Yea, I had some girlfriend issues mysef last night so I had to leave early, looks like I missed getting **** on by teeth and the lads all night (sry I missed that one !)

I agree chung I was with a few Jim Hensons early last night so I just said ****it and I just wandered around no mans land sniping n stuff (with CC Tool chaseing me almost all night )

I have to play this skyjack, i play C&H on BW and D&D on a US server....

I also wont be on for most of the weekend, I'm going to the match in scotland at the weekend, so its beer, beer and more beer for me !!!!!!!!!

WhiteWashMan

ffs, why are you guys never ever on when i want to play. ive been playin nono-stop for about a month now and am really enjoying it. but pings to ign seem to unstable and theres never anyone on. and the one time i did start playing i was givin out to and then told how to get the command screen up! like doh!
anyway, if yis ever decide to get some good wars going, let us know. sniping is what its all about. dfefend your attackers with some nice sniping tactics. scares the **** outta the opposition

white(yer'ma)wash