What no garda thread after 2 days?

Ajnag

Im kinda surprised this hasnt been brought up, Ive been keeping an eye out but If its anywhere else on the boards I havent seen it.

Heres the obligatory link, should you have been doing your best to avoid all news media

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1262577,00.html

Sorry for using an English source, but I havent filled out the endless forms for the Irish free access sites yet.

Anyhow, My question is do you think that the corruption in the gardi is systemic as Judge Morris concluded, and also is it widespread.

My personal experiance tell's me it is.There is one guard in my locality, who has a tonne of storys behind him, but as I cant confirm the validity of such storys Ill just mention that a Judge caught him on the hop in court. His testimony contradicted evidense and another guards testimony and the judge clearly caught him lying.To date he has not been disaplined and also may be in line for a promotion.But sadly transpareny is lacking on these matters so where things actually stand is hard to say.

I have heard much anecdotal evidence over the years of guards taking libertys but as such that cant be taken in for a reasonable analysis.

So Im just wondering If anyone else here on boards can mention occurances which can be testified for where guardi were caught acting in an unreasonable manner.

Also I was listening to Derick Davis yesterday and It was all apologist, saying that the vast majority of the guardi were completly above critism etc etc and he then went on to say the same for the curch and the sex scandels.The reason I find this line apologistic is that if both organisations were comprimise of such high minded and well intentioned people, then why in both case's didnt these people who supposedly exist come forward long before the tribunals and scandels started?

Am I wrong in thinking that Ireland has a bit of an "ahh sure......" Attitude in relation to these matters?

Aj.

dahamsta

Originally posted by Ajnag
Am I wrong in thinking that Ireland has a bit of an "ahh sure......" Attitude in relation to these matters?

Well, yeah, obviously. That's where the Gardaí got it from, we're a country of chancers, have been since I can remember and no doubt a lot longer. For example, I wonder how many of the people that have or will wail and gnash their teeth about this, have at some stage in the past tried to get a speeding ticket fixed, or even asked a friend - or a Garda - to "extend the truth" a little for them. Which isn't the same as saying it's right, I should add.

Anyway, here's the Examiner and "Independent" pieces. Free registration for both I'm afraid.

adam

mike65

Call it "corruption fatigue"!

The interim report contains nothing most of us wont have expected I think. This has been dragging on for sometime after all and threads were posted at the time.

Mike.

l3rian

corruption expectation morelike

Ajnag

Originally posted by dahamsta
Well, yeah, obviously. That's where the Gardaí got it from, we're a country of chancers, have been since I can remember and no doubt a lot longer. For example, I wonder how many of the people that have or will wail and gnash their teeth about this, have at some stage in the past tried to get a speeding ticket fixed, or even asked a friend - or a Garda - to "extend the truth" a little for them. Which isn't the same as saying it's right, I should add.

adam

Well, that's part of It, Although Ive never had a personal favour from a guard or ever attempted to con my out of anything, I have had a few occasions where a garda's discreation has saved my bacon.In both these matter's I was extremely grateful that the guards I was dealing with were very accomidating and restrained in the use of their powers.Given the duality's involved the public's attitude is always going to be somewhat flawed.

Its just that the few "rotten egg's" seem to be tolerated by their counter parts.Now in fairness given the nature of the job, a defensive nature(given that their are a lot of bs claims mixed in with the genuine claims against guards) is to be expected, however unfortunatly this seems to have gone beyond the bounds of reasonable behaviour in many case's.

Hopefully the reforms proposed by McDowell will go some way towards remiding the problems shown.

One thing that piss's me off no-end tho is the wanna be wingers here, who claimed the rts beating's a few years ago were just the guards beating up some "hippies".This attitude is also somewhat responsable for the current situation.Rts and the follow up where guardi threated a baton strike were clearly indicative of what the morris tribunal has brought to light.

chewy

of an independent complaints board...

Victor

'twas in todays paper, won't happen.

[edit]ooops misread that.

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/3610307?view=Eircomnet

McDowell dismisses setting up policing authority
From:ireland.com
Saturday, 17th July, 2004

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr McDowell, yesterday rejected the notion that an independent policing authority should be established in the wake of this week's Morris tribunal report.

Speaking in Ennis, Co Clare, Mr McDowell said that such a move "would be a retrograde step".

He added: "The problem with an independent policing authority is that it would only add to my difficulties, rather than taking away from them.

"The real question is accountability, the chains of command, the chains of accountability and the new structure in the Garda Bill is designed to maximise accountability, to make the Commissioner personally answerable to Oireachtas committees, to put the relationship between the Government of the day and the Commissioner and the force on a very clear statutory footing."

Mr McDowell said that "putting a new layer between me and the gardaí would not increase accountability".

...

chewy

ffs but the gardai arent supposed to be accountable to him there some to accountable to us...????????

davelerave

i was watching 'you've been framed' so i never got round to posting

arcadegame2004

Im kinda surprised this hasnt been brought up, Ive been keeping an eye out but If its anywhere else on the boards I havent seen it.

That isn't entirely fair, given that I put up a post on the McBrearty issue, which is related.

I personally genuinely believe that the vast bulk of the Gardai are honest decent people.

But like the Catholic Church, the hierarchy of the Gardai contains some individuals who are excessively concerned with "avoiding scandal", and that probably explains why a blind eye appears to have been turned to what those 2 gardai were playing at, if the Morris findings so far are to be believed (and I certainly believe them). Such individuals definitely need to be turfed out of the Gardai. A great disease requires the amputation of the defective parts.

Apparently, the findings of the Tribunals and the evidence gathered therein is inadmissable in a court of law. I think the law/constitution needs to be changed to allow such admissability. Do you agree?

redspider

I'd like to add some comments.

I have been aware of many, many corruption situations within the Gardai down through the years, taking money, etc. Many people who comment that most of the Gardai are fine standing individuals are not looking at this with clarity or with insight imo. If you know a Garda who is say in his 50's, he will know of 100's of situations.

First, when any power vested in humans can lead to corruption, it is likely that it will happen - unless it is prevented and controlled. The analogy of kids in a sweetshop applies. Humans are alas morally frail. Few are Mahatma Gandhi's ! With the current structures in the Gardai there is lack of independent checking or "internal affiars" investigation bodies, so many systems of corruption result.

Many of the Gardai have become involved in these rackets. Many of the rackets are small time, but that does not excuse them. Those that aren't involved in anything are either too new in the force, or are not just "cute enough", or are of the minority that do have very high morals. Even those with the high morals turn a blind eye, ignore the obvious evidence in front of them, etc, so are "guilty by lack of action".
For many its just part of the job.

chewy

you xactly right spider man....

there needs to an police ombudmans and independent internal investigation and independent complaints commission.

the so called small percentage get seen doing dodgy things by a another percentage so you have up with a majority of tarnish cops... its the same in the church they knew aobut it said nothing...

a independent police board is a long time com,ing i don't know why it hasn't happened already?

BUMP!

Have been to templemore a few times (used to be going out with a trainee gard) and I think thats where the problems start. Some of the people (thankfully the majority) there were great people who actually joined to do a good job and to help the community. Trouble is there are too many little pr1cks who think that they are the business and only joined the gards so that they could look down on other people and basically so they could shaft the people they dont like and who would sell their own mother to get ahead. These are the people that cause the problems and who give the rest of the gards a bad name.

Oh, and a simple example of how they abuse their power might be the ex's friend telling me that I'd be better off not getting stopped by her 'cos she'll go to town on me... (Thick bitch said it in front of other people so I dont have to worry)

Kell

Originally posted by Victor
'twas in todays paper, won't happen.

Pity that. Again that man confounds me.

There is a definite need to set up an ombudsman to investigate Gardai abuses of power, but sadly as Vic says, it is not likely to happen. What is also required here is for all the members of the force directly involved in this case to lose their jobs, which again is not going to happen and when it doesnt, the publics faith in the Gardai is going to take another trip south.

K-