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  • 13-07-2004 11:36pm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 keithb

    Hey yeah i was wondering if some body was intrested on going on a war drive some time like a group go out and try and find a few places to go no the net


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭ Jaden

    Wardriving is about finding unsecured access points, nothing else.

    Using them is at the least unethical, and at worst illegal.

    Where abouts are you? I have already mapped most of Galway.

  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭ digitalninja

    jaden you bollix, wardriving is great craic.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭ Jaden

    Tis fun alright. What's your point?

    There is a large segment of the wireless community that abhor the concept of using someone else's bandwidth to surf the internet. Fair enough.

    I myself am not so black and white on the subject. Wardriving is a good way of finding access points that have been deliberately left unsecured, so as to provide internet access to those nearby. There is nothing wrong with Wardriving to hunt these down. I could point out several of these in the Galway area.

    Anything else is a bit iffy, at least in the eyes of many people.

    That aside, there are people doing it. I have a wireless honeypot that proves this. While I don't condone such actions, I personally find them hard to condemn aswell.

    It's a matter of perspective.

    If an Access Point hands out an IP to a passing wireless card. Either accidently or deliberately, that is not the owner of the wireless cards problem. The communication was initiated by the AP. If any piece of hardware connects to anything piece of hardware I own (Wi-fi, bluetooth, IRDA), I would consider it well within my ethical brief to investigate. I would check for internet connectivity, to see if I have been exposed to anything else. I would not assume that any firewall is protecting me, but would check instead. There is no crime being committed here.

    There is a school of thought that thinks that using someone else's bandwidth is theft. Full Stop. Simplistic, but understandable.

    It really depends on your personal viewpoint. The legal standing on the whole matter is a little grey. Or at least it was the last time I asked.

  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭ digitalninja


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭ Jaden

    A Classic example of why, just like with driving, you should have have to pass a test before you're let onto the internet.

    Muppets make baby Jesus cry.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭ digitalninja

    haha, hack0r,
    i will ownz0r you war drive l33t jaden.

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 89,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight

    Originally posted by Jaden
    Wardriving is a good way of finding access points that have been deliberately left unsecured, so as to provide internet access to those nearby. There is nothing wrong with Wardriving to hunt these down. I could point out several of these in the Galway area.
    How do you know they have been deliberatley left open to allow others to use them ?
    The default settings on AP's is no security. I'd reckon it was mostly SOHO/Home users - people with capped internet access - so leaching would cause a financial impact to them. Which makes it stealing.

    If the AP's have been ADVERTISED by the operator for free internet, then of course that would be fine.
    Note: ISP's have to record IP traffic by law so there may be legal issues with having an AP open to traffic that has not accepted an AUP or registered, which implies that bypassing an AUP could be considered personation/defamation (you are ineffect claiming to the ISP and your behaviour on line may be noted by some upstream ISP )

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭ bkehoe

    digitalninja, calm down a bit.

    Jaden is correct in the definition of wardriving - it is about discovering/mapping accesspoints only. Accessing any private accesspoints is indeed illegal, and most wardrivers will not approve of this activity. Open accesspoints - afaik there are several galwaywan aps around in Galway which would be open for access. :)

  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭ digitalninja

    I was only messing with jaden a bit, we go way back.
    back to gamenet, and doom.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭ Jaden

    Capt'n, you are indeed correct. It is impossible alot of the time to tell if an AP has been left unsecured deliberately or accidently.

    However, if my laptop makes an association with an AP, I normally investigate the situation. I will try to determine why it has done so, (accidental or deliberate) and see if there is any threat posed to my PCs security.

    If I see that there are gaping holes in the setup, I assume it is accidental, and do my best to inform the owner. Civic duty and all that crap.

    I feel confident that this is a sensible stance to take on the issue, but I'm always curious as to how other people see things.

    Generally, I have found that the "free internet is cool, and I'll take it if I can find it" gang are 15-20 year old males who are just makiing their first steps into the wireless world. I can't blame them for their actions, but I certainly wouldn't encourage them.

    On the other hand, the "using someone's internet access because you can is evil and you are a criminal" bunch are nearly as bad. Checking your e-mail and using 50K of an 8 gig cap hurts no-one. Downloading donkey p0rn to the tune of 5 gig is a different story altogether. It's about degrees of law. No-one is ever 100% compliant with the law, and the law does not expect them to be. Sensible civic behaviour is what is required, not tired soap-boxing. Common sense, unfortunately, is not all that common at all.

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  • Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    To be honest if ur gonna drive around till you find an open AP. and are prepared to sit like a looser in ur car surfing the internet for "free"(free as in too much free time) I really don't know what to think.
    I do wardrive ocasionally if I'm doing a round trip I take the lappy with me. Just out of curiousity so see where there are access points.
    That said I know somebody whoes neighbours kept breaking his WEP and leeching his bandwidth. He ended up having to upgrade his AP to one with WPA so he could use it..

    That last post was a nice rant Jaden

    The bit about civic duty brought a tear to my eye :p

    Where did you get your cliché generator?

  • Registered Users Posts: 37,534 ✭✭✭✭ the_syco

    Just wondering; I've a wireless modem (so my dad + sis can access the net, without interfering with my online gaming), and I'm wondering; is MAC address good enough protection, or should I use WEP as well? This thread looks like a suitable place to ask, as most of youse are the people I'm trying to keep out ;)

    Two other question; when wardriving, do you need a high spec PC (lappie is only a 233Mhz), and is an aerial worth getting(to make my wireless card a bit more powerful)?

  • Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    Mac address filtering will stop any people using your network apart from apporved MAC addresses.

    This in itsself is not very good protection. But it will stop the average joe accessing ur network. Bear in mind all the data is still transfered in plain txt so It can be snooped.

    It is possible with a hacked driver and or firmware to clone mac addresses but this is not something that can be done on the fly to my knowlege.

    I myself have my AP totally unlocked default everything, no wep no admin password.
    Y? cause I'm in the middle of nowhere. If they want to drive right up to my house to access the net they are welcome to it!

    For wardriving I woould hazzard a guess that ur setup will be fine. As long as it can get drivers for ur setup ur good to go. Just don't expect to be cracking wep on it!