Job prospects for new pilots?

Cuauhtemoc

Just looking for a bit of advice.
I'm considering becoming a pilot and just wondering what the prospects would be after getting my licence.
It's a fairly hefty investment to get a commercial licence, so i'd like to think that it'd be money well spent and i'd be able to get a decent job.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Cheers.

C.

Sposs

Dont think wages and jobs for pilots are as good as they use to be,it wasnt so long ago that alot of them were being laid off.

leeroybrown

Afaik, these days, most pilots are left paying back their commercial licence costs to the airline they trained/qualfied with for a very long period of time. Maybe when they get that paid off the pay becomes good but until that time I'd say it's not brilliant (considering the investment) and you're probably tied to the one airline for a long time.

IIRC there were a couple of threads about becoming a pilot on this board in the last 6 months. Try seaching for them.

Since I'm at work (and consequently wasting time):
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=516979&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

RicardoSmith

I'm not a pilot but I know quite a few pilots. Money isn't as good as it was and they have less perks and have to work longer and harder. But that said its still a great job, and you'll be on more money than most will be. I'd rconsider the money great. 20-30k starting, going to 40-60k when you're on the line. Captains get around 100k. You get a lot of time off compared to other careers.

Theres two routes . Get on a cadet scheme. Generally this means you are young and do not have too much experience. Or pay for your own training and try to get a CPL then a type rating. You'll probably end up in a smaller operation for a few years ad then when you have some experience you might get a direct entry into an airline looking for experienced pilots. Some experienced CPL's can't cut the transition to the airline operation and fail the tests at that stage. So having a CPL isn't enough to make it.

I know guys who have gone from loading bagage to pliots and then captain. I also know guys who got in at 18 and guys that tried getting in at 40+ with a CPL and experience and failed. The medical is pretty severe, teeth, eyes, hearing, physical health, heart and breathing problems are all checked out.


Check out this website....
http://pprune.com/

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by leeroybrown
Afaik, these days, most pilots are left paying back their commercial licence costs to the airline they trained/qualfied with for a very long period of time. Maybe when they get that paid off the pay becomes good but until that time I'd say it's not brilliant (considering the investment) and you're probably tied to the one airline for a long time.....

As a lifestyle its hard to beat though....

Sleipnir

Living in airport hotels gets pretty tiresome after a while you know!
It's not like it was in the 60's & 70's

Original poster, talk to these chaps.

Generally, the accepted way to do it is to get your PPL here in Ireland and
then when you're going for your commercial, do your flying hours in the U.S. cos it's a helluva lot cheaper.

Do we have any licensed pilots on boards?

Cuauhtemoc

Cheers for the info all!

Was thinking of doing it here New Zealand Flight Training

The Professional Pilot Course (CPL/MEIR) is the one i'd be looking at.
About €25k.

Is a big layout(life savings basically!!), but could be worth it in the long term if i could get a job. Could always fall back to IT(last resort) failing that.

C.

PhoenixRising

The job market for pilots in Ireland is still pretty bleak at the moment. That's not to say that things won't pick up again in a few years - they probably will. I don't think I would advise anyone to spend upward of €60k to get a frozen ATPL in the present climate. But then again, you could be lucky and find a job straight away, especially if you want it bad enough.

What age are you ? If you're young, I'd recommend that you go to college first and get a degree as it would be good use of your time while waiting for things to pick up and would be looked upon favourably by the airlines when it comes to employment. You also need to consider your suitability for the job in terms of your mechanical aptitude, health, eyesight, personality etc..as there is no point spending €60k to find out that no airline will hire you as you are not suitable. I know a few people who have spent the money and then struggled with the flight training and the written exams, passed eventually due to perserverance, but no airline will look at them because of their poor training record and or the fact that they are just not 'pilot material'. Thats not a position you want to find yourself in. Have a good think about it and maybe give it another year or two and then go for it if it's what you really want.

If you are going to do it it's definitely worth doing a full-time integrated course at the likes of Oxford Air Training School in the UK or BAe Systems in Jerez, Spain.

Cuauhtemoc

What age are you ? If you're young, I'd recommend that you go to college first and get a degree

Depends on what you call young..I'm 26 which is kind of make or break time in becoming a pilot i would think. I work in IT and have qualifications in it as well so i could fall back to that if needs be.

If you are going to do it it's definitely worth doing a full-time integrated course at the likes of Oxford Air Training School in the UK or BAe Systems in Jerez, Spain.

The full time integrated course i was looking at is in New Zealand and works out at about €25k($47k NZD), significantly cheaper than the Oxford or BAe training.
Seems like a fairly good training school and i couldn't afford the other 2 at their prices.

C.

RicardoSmith

Yeah Irelands not a good prospect at the moment. Theres a whole bunch of frozen ATPL's in the UK aswell so you'd be competing against those aswell. I think you have to look at it as a vocation rather than a career, as theres always the risk of losing your licence, or health etc. I'd definately keep something else going in the background to fall back on.

Heres an ad. They are looking for type ratings too.
http://www.easyjet.com/en/jobs/pilotrecruitment_ourcurrentrequirments.html

RicardoSmith

At 26 I'd say go for it. Your still young enough that if it doesn't work out in 3 or 4 years you can go back to IT.

PhoenixRising

Originally posted by Cuauhtemoc
The full time integrated course i was looking at is in New Zealand and works out at about €25k($47k NZD), significantly cheaper than the Oxford or BAe training.
Seems like a fairly good training school and i couldn't afford the other 2 at their prices.

Yeah but that doesn't include accomodation, food and other expenses for the 15 months. You won't be able to get a part-time job to earn some cash while you are over there because the course is full-time and very intense. You'll also just have a training/eduction visa which will not entitle you to work in NZ. I'd say it'll be more like €35 to €40k after you factor in all other costs. You also have to remember that the €25k only covers the prescribed amount of hours and tests. If you need any extra training hours to pin down something you are struggling with you will have to cover that cost. A multi-twin such as a PA34 used in the ME/IR phase is going to cost around €400/hr. If you fail a flight test you'll be expected to pay the test fee for any re-test. Not sure what the inititial ME/IR flight test fee is, but a renewal is around €350 for just the test fee!

I only mentioned those two schools as they have the best reputation in the business and most of the major airlines use them to train their cadets such as BA, Aer Lingus, BMI ect..So just by having Oxford on your CV would be great start. Obviously the money we are talking here is huge, and you have to train where you can afford to, but if you are serious about it then the extra money for Oxford or Jerez would be worth it in my book.

Cuauhtemoc

*Sigh*

:dunno:

Cheers for all the replies.

Phoenixrising: New Zealand would be ok accomodation/food wise as i planned to be there for a year anyway and thats sorted.
The oxford or BAe - now Flight Training Europe schools do seem to be best from what i've read but Oxfords work out at Euro 80k - 87k which is just out of the question.
BAe don't publish their integrated course price(by email request only for some reason) but seem a lot more reasonable judging from their modular course prices.

Another snag would appear to be trying to transfer a New Zealand licence to Europe. It can be hugely expensive apparently unless you happen to have 1500+ hrs or something.

May get the ppl over there which is quite cheap and easily transferable and do the rest in europe.

C.

PhoenixRising

Originally posted by Cuauhtemoc
Another snag would appear to be trying to transfer a New Zealand licence to Europe. It can be hugely expensive apparently unless you happen to have 1500+ hrs or something.

May get the ppl over there which is quite cheap and easily transferable and do the rest in europe.

C.

Indeed, that's something I hadn't thought about. You need a JAR-FCL frozen ATPL to work in Europe. JAR stands for Joint Aviation Regulations and is a pan-european licence, so it's accepted all across Europe, whereas a few years ago each European country had it's own licensing standards and it was very messy transferring them across to meet different country's standards. Certain flight schools in the US are approved to conduct JAR flight training, maybe you could investigate schools there. Get on to that crowd in NZ and ask if their course is JAR approved.

jank

Hmmm I always wanted to be a pilot......maybe I should reconsider my position cause the IT industry is so crap at the mo. 9/11 is after changing everything im afraid but if ya get into it i hear it can be a very good job and make quite a good living out of it


what is it again a pilot can only do one flight a day!
if its long they have to be given a rest period aka time to chill out and go on the piss!!

ArphaRima

what is it again a pilot can only do one flight a day!

I think you need to read more, and dream less.

Morpheus

IMO try getting your PPL here, ill be starting on mine soon, then if you succeed in your PPL and have done well, given your time and passed the exams, you'll know whether you want to go through the whole ATPL or not.

Im in I.T. too, and have saved enough for a couple of lessons, but im going to start training soon, so hopefully ill manage 1 lesson a week (weather permitting) and work my way up the modular course.

Cuauhtemoc

Where are you doing it as a matter of interest?

After checking prices The NFC in weston are 145 p/h
Compare to Cork which was 110 p/h
Substantial difference over the course of 45 hrs flight time, but seeing as i don't live in Cork Weston would be where i'd do it.
I'm off to New Zealand in November(or in and around then) so unless i wait till i come back i figure it'll be cheaper to at least get my ppl over there.
About €4000 give or take.
Converting it is relatively straightforward aparently.

Fionn101

where in cork did you see the euro110p/h ??? can you send details .

for that price it would be worth grouping your flights down in cork and taking the theory study course up here.

if there is enough of us doing it then it would make financial sense ,i.e. 3 people splitting petrol to cork etc.

let me know if interested .

Fionn

Sposs

I Thought you had your licence dave?

Cuauhtemoc

On Website.. www.southaer.com
Go to Training then Private pilot licence and click more...

Quote from their website...

"COST
Flying is costed on an hourly basis. Both Aircraft operate at a rate of €110.00 per flying hour and pro rata from there. It is not necessary to fly complete hours each time and the cost will vary as to what portion of an hour you fly. For example flight time of thirty minutes will cost €55.00 and so on. "

As regards grouping hours/splitting petrol, sounds like a good idea, but i won't be here to do that unfortunately.

C.

Fionn101

ta for the link , a 172 is a fine plane faster and tilted props make it ideal for learning , and it beats the cr*p c150 in weston.

sposs , i don't have a licence to carry your fat ass for hire or reward (commercial licence) but i can take your mom for a pleasure flight (private licence)
provided i don't make money for it (like usual).

how do you like those apples ???

Fionn

ArphaRima

Flying is costed on an hourly basis. Both Aircraft operate at a rate of €110.00 per flying hour and pro rata from there. It is not necessary to fly complete hours each time and the cost will vary as to what portion of an hour you fly. For example flight time of thirty minutes will cost €55.00 and so on. "

There are a number of ways to measure time and therefore your charges.
A- Flight time. Airborne to landing.
B- Block time. From release of parking brake to its setting again. (pre and post-flight)
C- Tachometer time. Time the engine is running.

The best value for any trainee is Flight time.

As for training in new zealand, be wary. 40 hours flight training in a place with easily distinguished land features is quite different to flying in the UK, where the entire country is villages, railway tracks and tiny airports. Your PPL may not prepare you for your CPL in other words.

I recommend maybe getting 5 flying lessons, to make sure you will like a training course. Then get a class 1 medical, to ensure you will get in. Save some money, talk to a bank, and begin an ab-initio course. (Jerez or Oxford)

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Fionn101
.....a 172 is a fine plane faster and tilted props make it ideal for learning , and it beats the cr*p c150 in weston......

Faster and tilted props? Never heard that before. Do you mean a constant speed prop?

Fionn101

bit off topic but......

nope i meant the 172 is a faster plane than the 152 ,also holds more people

and as for the props well they are variable angle props , rather than fixed pitch which is nice.

basically cork have better planes, for lower prices , which suits me

see you there

Fionn

RicardoSmith

For doing touring fair enough, but when learning why would passenger capacity and higher crusing speed be better? or even a factor?

When you take into account the time taken to drive to cork, the unreliablity of Irish weather, especially in foggy cork, you'd br nuts to commute to cork to do your flying. Its just not practical. By the time you got there flying could be cancelled. You ca't learn to fly on the cheap. Don't fool yourself.

PhoenixRising

Originally posted by Fionn101
bit off topic but......

and as for the props well they are variable angle props , rather than fixed pitch which is nice.

Very few 172's have variable pitch or constant speed props. They're nearly all fixed pitch. The one you're talking about in Cork is definitely not variable pitch.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by PhoenixRising
Very few 172's have variable pitch or constant speed props. They're nearly all fixed pitch. The one you're talking about in Cork is definitely not variable pitch.

Ah but if you pick the tail up its tilted....:D (sorry couldn't resist)

Cuauhtemoc

You ca't learn to fly on the cheap. Don't fool yourself.

Thats a bit extreme.
I'd imagine the same rule applies to paying for training as it does for everyting else.

Shop around..see who has a good reputation..etc..and you may just save some money.

People in Cork obviously do.

C.

RicardoSmith

I'd have thought sharing petrol costs, and driving to Cork is a bit extreme. All to save €30 ph and you'd spend 6 hours (how is your time worth) and the cost of €10-20 for petrol and food for the journey down and back. Just to save that €30ph. I mean how many hours training to you expect to do in a session. One, two? Plus there'd be many days were you go down and not get flying at all. Thats just the nature of flying in Ireland.

Fionn101

he he ,

well at the moment i'm going through navs and circuit emergencies, so i'll be doing my flying in blocks of 3 hours ,having 4 seater capacity is nice cause you can bring friends / fellow pilots up (got to see a lot of australia this way on the back of cpl pilots going on their nav flights)

as for the travelling to cork , it wouldn't be that much of a hassle , even with the weather , especially since if i was going down i'd get the forecast beforehand.

it can be done , and if your saving 35 quid a go it is well worth it

Fionn

RicardoSmith

I suppose if you can get 3 hours at time then its worth it. Though I reckon thats very optimistic. The problem with the weather is that it changes very fast down there so you could be almost there and the weather will change. That my experience of the weather here. Maybe you'll get better luck with it.