Trying to revive an old Dell

oscarBravo

The brother-in-law's old (1999 vintage) Dell XPS-R400 died recently - IBM hard drive, click of death, the usual. Tried the standard HD recovery tricks, with no luck, so I got him a new 80GB Maxtor drive and 256MB of PC133 SDRAM.

Neither work.

Trying to install Windows 2000, it can't format the hard drive. It starts, then gives up. I've tried creating a small partition and formatting that - no luck either. Looking at the CMOS settings, it looks like it can't handle a HD bigger than 65535MB - any chance of a way around this?

The RAM doesn't work either - it can see it, but it won't use it. It reports 128MB in each of the three DIMM slots, but then reports system memory of 128MB. If the original DIMM isn't in there, it won't even boot to the setup screen.

I've flashed the BIOS to the latest available version - A13 - and it didn't help. Is there anything that can be done with it, or am I stuck with a useless PII-400 and a HD and RAM I don't have an immediate use for?

duridian

You could try using the Maxtor Maxblast software to overcome the Dell's problems with the 80gig.

http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/maxblast3.htm

Not totally familiar with the latest version of Maxblast but it helped me some time back. It had a thing called EZBios which it installed to some part of your hard disk, possibly the system area which takes over at boot time and allows you to use larger hds than the bios normally allows. Hope this helps you.

Not a lot can be done on the memory issue, Dells are very picky about what memory is used (just one of the many things I dislike about Dell). You really have to specify the Dell model to ram suppliers when ordering it to have a sure thing. I think they also tend to fail depending on whether you use single or double sided ram sticks in certain slots. The 400MHz Pentium II should normally be matched up with PC100 ram as it would be a 100FSB CPU but that is not likely the source of your problem as the PC133 would just clock down to 100. A lot of PII and PIII era Dells that I've seen seem to use Infineon ram.

Gerry

For the hard drive, you can try this trick, which works for me.
Look up the jumper settings on the drive. Set the "32 gb clip" on. This will make the drive appear as 32 gigs to the bios, and the machine will boot up. Set the bios to this drive type permanently ( ie, don't have it autodetect it every time on boot ).
Now, change the jumpers on the drive again so that 32gb clip is disabled ( ie normal settings ). When you boot up, the bios still thinks theres a 32gb disk there. With any luck, windows will see all of the drive now.

This may not work, as my machine is not exactly a dell..

As for the ram, well I have 2 128mb sticks here, if you want to swap, pm me.

Capt'n Midnight

If it uses the same intel chipset 'b' as most of the other Dell dimensions of the same time it will only work with SOME PC 100 memory, 133 don't work.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
If it uses the same intel chipset 'b' as most of the other Dell dimensions of the same time it will only work with SOME PC 100 memory, 133 don't work.

I have this naive philosophy that if a memory module physically fits in a slot, then it shouldn't be too much to expect that it will work - even if it doesn't work as fast as it could. :rolleyes:

Trying the maxblast solution now - I'll keep youse posted. Gerry, I've sent you a PM. The 32M clip option probably wouldn't have worked, since the only option this BIOS gives me is auto detection - I can't lock down the drive settings.

Rew

Have a look at http://www.crucial.com/uk/index.asp

Thay have a memmory finder tool which is a big help when it comes to old machines. BTW Maxtor HDDs are the worst pices of **** iv ever had the misfortune to use good luck with it...

leeroybrown

I assume you're thinking of the old Maxtors which were almost guarantee to fail. These days the Maxtors seem fine and about as reliable as most other IDE HDD's.

Rew

Havent bought one in 2 or 3 years ago. We havve a 120 gig one in work which is a bit over a year and a half old thats just failed (actually its been failing foir a while now but looks proper ****ed in the last week).

duridian

Originally posted by leeroybrown
I assume you're thinking of the old Maxtors which were almost guarantee to fail. These days the Maxtors seem fine and about as reliable as most other IDE HDD's.

Yes the new Maxtors are miles better. I think Quantum and Maxtor combined forces a while back and this could go a long way towards explaining the quality improvement at Maxtor. (I have quite a few pre-2003 manufactured paperweights from both those companies too) http://www.shareholder.com/maxtor/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=67130&reltype=Corporate&maxtor_section=press

kevpatts

I'm running 4 Maxtor 250 gig drives and they all seem fine, I ain't counting my chickens yet though. they're faster than the othe samsung drives I have, even though the samsungs are 7200 rpm and the maxtors are 5400 rpm. Don't know how this is but I'm not complaining!

Kev

duridian

Maybe the Maxtors have 8MB cache even though they're 5400revs and the Samsungs 2MB cache though 7200revs?

kevpatts

possibly, never paid much attantion to the samsungs, they're for my dads machine.

Kev

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by oscarBravo
I have this naive philosophy that if a memory module physically fits in a slot, then it shouldn't be too much to expect that it will work - even if it doesn't work as fast as it could. :rolleyes:

http://www.roberthancock.com/dell/

OK it's the intel BX chipset which don't like PC133 RAM

http://forums.windrivers.com/archive/index.php/t-58159

According to Dell, only 100mhz DIMM's are supported. You need PC100 - PC133 is not backward compatible to PC100. If Dell sold him PC133, or installed PC133 in the system originally, they should replace it. Take a look at the memory advisor (http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=Dell%2BDimension+XPS+Series&mfr=Dell&cat=RAM&model=Dimension+XPS+T+Series&submit=Go) at crucial.

duridian

Must be a Dell only thing with PC133, it defo ain't the norm with the BX chipset. I've had PC133 running in older systems of mine with 3 different models of BX based mobos. Asus P3B-F, ECS P6BXT-A and ECS P6BX-A+. None of these had any problems with PC133 running underclocked at 100MHz.

ChipZilla

Originally posted by oscarBravo
I have this naive philosophy that if a memory module physically fits in a slot, then it shouldn't be too much to expect that it will work - even if it doesn't work as fast as it could. :rolleyes:

That is actually a naive philosophy. :rolleyes:

eg. voltage differences, RAM type - ECC, non parity, unbuffered, registered, etc mean that you can't dump any old DIMM in a slot and hope your machine will POST.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by ChipZilla
That is actually a naive philosophy. :rolleyes:

Um, that's what I said.

eg. voltage differences, RAM type - ECC, non parity, unbuffered, registered, etc mean that you can't dump any old DIMM in a slot and hope your machine will POST.

If a chip won't work in a slot, why does it fit? PC2100 DIMMs won't fit in those slots.

Rew

PC2100 is DDR not SD they are pyssically diferant.

There are diferant types of RAM, some have error checking. Motherboard specs always say it, older the motherbaord and ram the more complicated it is generally.

Gerry

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight

OK it's the intel BX chipset which don't like PC133 RAM

Nah, I've been running pc133 on one bx board or another for years, its just that dells are fussy. Could be a problem with memory density, the speed of the ram, or just a particular brand it doesn't like.

RicardoSmith

Basically newer PC100 and PC133 modules use a higher density than the older PC100 modules. The BX doesn't support the newer ones. If you have a late model BX board you might get lucky and it will support the newer ones. So you have to get the lower density PC100 ram.

The answers to all these questions are on the Dell Talk forums.

Incidentally Maxtors and Quantum have been the only drives I've owned that have ever failed. I'd never buy another one. I have had Seagates for years and never had a problem. That said it wouldn't matter if one did if you backup your stuff regularly.

I used the Seagate disk tools to format an 120gb drive so it could be seen on a dell no problem. The Dell bios also had to be updated though.

duridian

I have a Fujitsu MPG series 10gig which failed on me as well. Actually these failed on everybody cos of a dodgy controller chip and resulted in HP suing Fujitsu(who supplied them with millions of fscked up hard drives) who sued Cirrus Logic(who made the fscked up controller chip) who sued some other company (for supplying them with fscked up semiconductor or something).

Tea drinker

Usually a bios update sorts out problems like this.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Tea drinker
Usually a bios update sorts out problems like this.

It didn't.

Tea drinker

Yes, I lazily didn't read the last paragraph.....
Anyway crucial does list PC133 ram for the XPS-R series.

They also list pc100, but all modules are rated at CL2, which
could be the problem, new modules rated at CL3 ?


http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=Dell%2BDimension+XPS+Series&mfr=Dell&cat=RAM&model=Dimension+XPS+R+Series&submit=Go

Throw up the make / type of modules, let's se what they are good for.

oscarBravo

Kingston KVR133X64C3L/128 - should be good for almost anything except a braindead Dell.

Tea drinker

Yeah, they are CL3 allright. Pity.
I have really gone off Dell stuff and corparate stuff generally, for reasons like this.
Any aftermarket board you just set it in the BIOS!

It would a pain in the A to get a new board in there, probably has funny ribbon cables to facia, manky proprietary power supply etc.

I have a Dell Dimension 4100 with blown mobo in front of me now.
I feel your pain.

Martin

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Tea drinker
Yeah, they are CL3 allright. Pity.
I have really gone off Dell stuff and corparate stuff generally, for reasons like this.
Any aftermarket board you just set it in the BIOS!

It would a pain in the A to get a new board in there, probably has funny ribbon cables to facia, manky proprietary power supply etc.

I have a Dell Dimension 4100 with blown mobo in front of me now.
I feel your pain.

Martin

An Genuine Intel board with less features and no overclocking functionality is more expensive than a ABIT, ASUS etc board. The Dell is pretty much a copy of the intel board. You use an Intel bios on a Dell motherboard etc. (once you know what you are doing).

You can't compare a Dell/Intel board with a 3rd party board. Its like comparing an Audi with a Alfa Romeo. One is more exciting, has more go faster bits and is faster and racier. The other one will 150K even 200K without any bits falling off, won't be as quickm but it won't need need any major repairs and will be a lot more reliable.

JHMEG

The Dell is pretty much a copy of the intel board.

Dell boards were made by Intel (in Leixlip) up until a couple of years ago. This is probably one of them (They also made boards for Gateway there too)

The other one will 150K even 200K without any bits falling off, won't be as quickm but it won't need need any major repairs and will be a lot more reliable.

You're talking about the Alfa there, right? [I think you should said Toyota instead of Audi]

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by JHMEG
Dell boards were made by Intel (in Leixlip) up until a couple of years ago. This is probably one of them (They also made boards for Gateway there too)


You're talking about the Alfa there, right? [I think you should said Toyota instead of Audi]

True. German cars are alot less reliable than popular opinion would have you believe espeically in Ireland. At least from about 92 onwards. But as an analogy I thought the Audi would work better. AFAIK Subaru are the best for reliability? Then Toyota, Honda.

Tea drinker

Nobody said they weren't made by intel, - just like the old gateway heaps that we had a few thousand of here.
What a revelation, I never heard that before... (!)

Ah, the amount of those yolks that used to die - unreal.
At least the big towers were very flexible.

Most of the corprate crap is cut down stuff; tiny little boards, riser cards no agp slot, crap onboard grpahics. etc etc, which to anyone who builds their own stuff is inferior.
That's not to say all corporate stuff is bad, similarly not all Intel stuff is bad.
But that is not the point here, the guy who started the thread is stuck because of a crap corporate PC.
Why don't you help and give the man that intel BIOS that you were talking about.
I'm sure he can get the mainboard number.
BTW, I drive an Audi, they are not that reliable...

OK it's 11 year old but it sounded good till I said that.....

Time for first tea of the day. Maybe a smoke too.... trying to stay off 'em

RicardoSmith

Gateways do not use Intel Reference boards. They may use intel chipsets but thats about it. Generally they use cheap Jetway boards and the like. If a Dell is like a toyota a Gateway is like a Fiat. A Dell is nothing like a Gateway in terms of reliability and build quality. Its vastly better. We've already covered the German car myth...zzzzzzzz

Complaining a corporate PC isn't as featured as a Game/Multimedia PC is like complaining a tractor doesn't have enough seats. or that its not a cool as your Max powered/customised car. The BX spec only allows 100fsb. Dell and Intel stick to the spec to reduce customer support calls and improve reliability. BX Boards that can use 133fsb have hacked the BX spec to do this. Which reduces reliability.

The problem is here is not the bios, but that hes using the wrong ram. End of story. To find out the right ram he need to go on to the Dell Talk forums. He'll find out what ram is the correct one there. He'll also find the answer to his hard disk problem. That infomation has already been given, theres nothing more to say about it. He has what he needs to sort his problem.

Capt'n Midnight

Once upon a time Intel shipped the worng batch of boards to Dell/Gateway. Legend has it that about 100 were assembled before any one copped on. Whatever about today several years ago Dimesnions and Some gateway MBs differed only by the BIOS in some cases

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
Once upon a time Intel shipped the worng batch of boards to Dell/Gateway. Legend has it that about 100 were assembled before any one copped on. Whatever about today several years ago Dimesnions and Some gateway MBs differed only by the BIOS in some cases

Only the bios were different? You'd think the branding of the exterior of the box would give it away.