publicans stop crying your heart out

dark_knight_ire

By now you all are aware they the VFI keeps complaining about the smoking ban in the workplace, a lot saying they have lost a lot of business.

I don't argue with that point just how much business is another thing. I've been going to pubs both to have drinks with friends or for some food if i'm to lazy to cook they seem just as packed as before. If anything most people are glad to wake up with no stink off fags off their clothes next morning.

The pub business has been robbing us blind for years look how much they charge for a pint. I would love to know say how much a Keg of beer costs on average and then you work it out how much they can make from the 88 pints they get out of a keg.

I'd be interested to know how many people will agree with my view that its all greed and they really could not give a toss about us that its all money to them or that of the publicans who will say they are going out of business

super_furry

It's crazy isn't it? Any other business would look at the obvious solution to winning more customers - lower prices. But to publicans that's not even a consideration. Greedy bastards have been gouging us for too long, it's good that something has come back to bite them in the arse.

munkeehaven

i totally agree..i never went to pubs before the ban as the smell and the smoke from fags was bloody awful. what the hell are they complaining about?! the amount of money they will save on cleaning is huge, you cant imagine what a pub looks like after a few years of grimey ciggarette buildup. also the amount of second hand smoke they will inhale accumalates over the years leading to all sorts of health-problems. i like my pubs smoke free and i want it to stay that way. its the classic chicken or the egg story. fresh clean air was here long before carcinogen sticks!

flogen

http://www.brewcrew.ie/beerme/default.asp

this should give you some idea of prices, although they are nobody brands (cant find prices on big brands just yet)

1.92 a pint.... those poor publicans, it must be the majority supported smoking ban and not the extra few euro they slap onto pints thats killing their trade.... and lets not forget the rediculous mark ups on soft drinks too.

The government wont back down, if less people go to pubs, so what? this is the best solution to public drunkeness theyve ever thought of, and while they wont admit it, they dont care if some pubs shut because of it (and frankly, i cant see many, if any, shutting down).

customer figures have been on a 5 year decrease, publicans just waited for this to bring up drop in trade so they had something else to blame.

flogen

alleepally

The increase in wine consumption indicates more people are entertaining at home. Tribune today carried an article all about the shift away from the traditional night in the pub as a night out. Prices may be one reason, but not the only one.

More people it seems are having to pay big mortgages and it's cheaper to entertain at home. Also, casinos are on the up with a lot of men finding it a better place to spend a night rather than getting hammered and performing under par the next day at work.

Victor

The drop was indicated by exchequer excise figures several months before the ban. Non story.

flogen

Originally posted by alleepally
The increase in wine consumption indicates more people are entertaining at home. Tribune today carried an article all about the shift away from the traditional night in the pub as a night out. Prices may be one reason, but not the only one.

More people it seems are having to pay big mortgages and it's cheaper to entertain at home. Also, casinos are on the up with a lot of men finding it a better place to spend a night rather than getting hammered and performing under par the next day at work.

True, there is alot more to a night out than beer, such as (perhaps) food, taxis etc... a night in is often better...

flogen

munkeehaven

was anyone at the mission of burma gig in the oak wood last wed in cork??

ChipZilla

Originally posted by flogen
http://www.brewcrew.ie/beerme/default.asp

this should give you some idea of prices, although they are nobody brands (cant find prices on big brands just yet)

1.92 a pint....

What a load of rubbish.

1.92 for 500ml for 'Beckett's Dublin Lager' = 2.17 for a pint. The stout, ale and cider are more expensive.

The lager is piss too IMHO.

And don't forget the 20 quid delivery charge - inside the M50 area.

Plus the cost of taps (unless you like to hammer a nail into the keg to tap it). 40 quid to rent their 'bar'.

Plus the cost of glasses (unless you drink straight from the tap like Barney Gumble). That's another tenner for 50 plastic tumblers.

And 20 quid an hour for the optional barman.

Add all that up.

Not so cheap then is it? The pubs have it easy alright. :rolleyes:

Stephen

Er its a bit different for the pubs don't you think, what with fixtures like taps being one-time costs, delivery of kegs from Guinness and the likes is covered in the charge for the keg, the glasses cost bugger all.

EKRIUQ

Price of a keg of Guinness before price rise was €116.20 plus Vat

jor el

I thought that the breweries supplied all the glasses and taps for pubs.
Did anyone happen to hear the bit about this on the Last Word on today FM last week, I caught it on Saturday morning on the re-play. Some pub owner in Donegal was saying how good the ban was, he was attracting all sorts of new business and so on. Meanwhile, some VFI rep from Kerry was moaning on about how they were all going out of business. When Matt Cooper suggested they reduce their prices all yer man could do was say how there was no way pubs could control their costs. Then he remarked about the last price rise was due to Diageo increasing thier prices, and the pubs only took a percentage of this! Why did they feel the need to tag on extra to Diageo's price rise? He came across as a complete muppet, and it's no surprise that pubs are loosing business if this is their attitude.

Raz

Originally posted by ChipZilla

And 20 quid an hour for the optional barman.

WTF?? that's over 40K a year! I'd be damn surprised to see a barman make that much! Plus most of the staff are part time with maybe 2 full timers.
If you consider a markup of €2 per pint and 2 kegs changed per night Mon, Tue, Wed and 6 kegs per night Thurs, Fri, Sat and we'll say they have Sunday off for the sake of it. (I've worked in a couple of bars that managed 6 kegs a night no problem)
That works out as 24 kegs a week. 88 pints per keg with the €2 markup gives approx. €4200 a week which makes approx €219000 a year with all the stock paid for.
And that's just from pints. I've made no mention of cover charges or food or any other method of making money within a bar.
That leaves staff and fixtures and fittings mainly to be paid for from that. Oh and tax aswell. Is that 21%? €173000 after tax.
A publican could easily have a 50K a year take home from that.
And thats taking Sundays off which no pubs in Ireland do.

seamus

Originally posted by ChipZilla
What a load of rubbish.

1.92 for 500ml for 'Beckett's Dublin Lager' = 2.17 for a pint. The stout, ale and cider are more expensive.

The lager is piss too IMHO.

And don't forget the 20 quid delivery charge - inside the M50 area.

Plus the cost of taps (unless you like to hammer a nail into the keg to tap it). 40 quid to rent their 'bar'.

Plus the cost of glasses (unless you drink straight from the tap like Barney Gumble). That's another tenner for 50 plastic tumblers.

And 20 quid an hour for the optional barman.

Add all that up.

Not so cheap then is it? The pubs have it easy alright. :rolleyes:

Well consider a few things here:
This beer is being sold to residential customers. They may buy one or two kegs. Pubs buy kegs in bulk, and get discounts and free kegs. A friend of mine delivers kegs, and around Christmas, most of the pubs call in their free keg amount which they've built up. One pub last year had almost 280 kegs delivered - free! Publicans may also be able to claim back VAT against the kegs (or do they get them VAT-free), but I could be wrong. So there's one area where the pubs should be massively cheaper than the brew crew.
20 quid delivery charge to residential customers. Pubs get all theirs deilvered free. More savings.
Pubs have their taps permanently installed. There's the cost of servicing pipes and the gas, but per keg, or per two kegs, it's not €40.

So given the massive savings they're making, if we factor in the cost of 3 barmen @ €20 per hour, and 6 bar staff @ €8 per hour, they should be able to make a handsome profit @ €2.50 per pint. Add an extra €1 per pint for public liability insurance and building maintenance, and you're still €1 below the current average price and making a profit.

ChipZilla

Originally posted by Raz


quote:

---

Originally posted by ChipZilla

And 20 quid an hour for the optional barman.


WTF??

I'm quoting that 20 an hour from the link flogen provided. I know pubs don''t pay barmen annything like that, but that's what you're paying this company to get a "bar experience".

You can always pull your own pints...

I was illustrating how the cheap option wasn't so cheap once you had to get your hands on all the other stuff apart from the keg of beer itself.

Flame on.

Civilian_Target

?!

Are you mad? The cost of the actual beer to the pub is about 90c + vat, taking prices at our s.union at last xmas's party. Obviously if you charge €4.50 a pint, VATs going to add another 50c or more to it.

Zulu

Look the publicans deserve everything they get.
We, the customers, have been treated like crap for ages, it's high time it hit them where it hurt.

While I love drinking in pubs, I've been treated like crap for as long as I can remember. From the moment the door-man stops you, to the bar-man that plonks the change in a puddle of beer on the bar, to the wobbley table that is filled with empty glasses and covered in spilled beer.

I have no problem paying €5.50 for a pint of Guinness.....













... if it's served to me in a 5 star pub. If the doorman held the door open for me, while welcoming me into the establishment, as opposed to just grunting. If the barstaff, are poliet and tell me they'll send the drink down to my table, which is perfectly balanced and spotless. If the bar toilets are spotles, as opposed to wading in others urine.

But the publicans want it both ways. Treat the customers like crap. Provide a poor service. And most importantly - charge HIGH!

It's not the smoking ban thats causing people to stay at home.

ixoy

It was €4.60 for a pint of cider, pre-11:30 on Saturday night. Whilst this is another example of rip-off prices at least this time I just got to sit in my chair and have the pints brought to me by polite bar staff. It's amazing how even a little touch like this is welcome in the normally "up yours" attitude of Dublin bar owners.

Zulu

Originally posted by ixoy
It was €4.60 for a pint of cider, pre-11:30 on Saturday night. Whilst this is another example of rip-off prices at least this time I just got to sit in my chair and have the pints brought to me by polite bar staff. It's amazing how even a little touch like this is welcome in the normally "up yours" attitude of Dublin bar owners.

Agreed. My favourite bar in Dublin? Smyths of Ranelagh. The bar man droppes down my Guinness to my table the whole time (even when the bar is busy). Great attitiude.

Imposter

Has anyone counted in the tax on the beer in those prices or is that already included in the price of the keg?

Mac daddy

Originally posted by jor el
I thought that the breweries supplied all the glasses and taps for pubs.

They do when there are promotions on the get a Shlte load of free stuff

Whenever they buy 5 kegs they get one free- at xmas they get even more-

Vodka- buy 5 cases and get one free!!!!

Bottles of coke/7up/orange whatever- 24 bottles cost around 9 euro's with vat included when the empty tray is full of emptys they send them back and get another 2-3 quid of the bill.

They make most of there money of the softdrinks!

How do i know all of this i used to work as a storeman part/fulltime when studying!!!

Chipzilla :And 20 quid an hour for the optional barman.

Those guys are luck to get minimum wage- The guys who work in a union house are on 11-12 euro's a hour not very much either

leeroybrown

For those of you who want a publican to laugh at look at the back page of the current issue of the Phoenix for a short article about Val Hanley (former Galway City Councellor and Mayor) who was Chairman of the WHB while opposing the smoking ban as an active member of the VFI.

df001i6876

Originally posted by Zulu
Look the publicans deserve everything they get.
We, the customers, have been treated like crap for ages, it's high time it hit them where it hurt.

While I love drinking in pubs, I've been treated like crap for as long as I can remember. From the moment the door-man stops you, to the bar-man that plonks the change in a puddle of beer on the bar, to the wobbley table that is filled with empty glasses and covered in spilled beer.

I have no problem paying €5.50 for a pint of Guinness..... wow

happy hour in my pub charges £1.45p and thats for guinness

and were teated like lords. the good old punch+ judy in liverpool lime street nr the train station
best pub in the country. Iwould want bed and breakfast for that E 5.50
is that eros.







... if it's served to me in a 5 star pub. If the doorman held the door open for me, while welcoming me into the establishment, as opposed to just grunting. If the barstaff, are poliet and tell me they'll send the drink down to my table, which is perfectly balanced and spotless. If the bar toilets are spotles, as opposed to wading in others urine.

But the publicans want it both ways. Treat the customers like crap. Provide a poor service. And most importantly - charge HIGH!

It's not the smoking ban thats causing people to stay at home.

Zulu

£1.45 - sterling I presume, unless you've been lost.
€ is euros alright.
Prices and tax are different in the good ould republic.

Civilian_Target

Originally posted by Imposter
Has anyone counted in the tax on the beer in those prices or is that already included in the price of the keg?

Import duty and other special alcohol related taxes are charged on the kegs too. All the publican charges extra in tax is the 21% vat, determined by the price he sets for a pint.

So, if the pint costs €4.50 to buy, but only €1 to supply, then 65c goes to the taxman €3.05 goes to the publican to cover his expenses and to make a large profit.

That may seem like a lot (2 and a half pints will pay a bar worker for an hour) but try this analysis on soft drinks, which retail at €2.50 in most pubs in Dublin, but cost the publican only 40c to supply.

Its not a publican's license they buy, its a license to print money....

ixoy

Stop the press! Publican in lowering prices SHOCK (from the Irish Independent):

DID you hear the one about the publican who dropped his prices. No, really, it's true.

One of Dublin's best known pubs, the Submarine Bar in Crumlin, has decided to go where the licenced trade has never gone before and has voluntarily lowered the price of beer and spirits.

General manager Philip Power said the move was in response to customers' reaction to the smoking ban, the recent price increase from Guinness-makers Diageo and high government duties on drink.

Punters were just getting ripped off every which way, Mr Power said. "They are killing the pub culture off."

So rather than pass the 10c increase Diageo introduced in June on to the long-suffering beer drinker, the Submarine Bar actually reduced their prices.

The lounge price of a pint of Guinness is down 35c to €3.75 while a pint of lager dropped 30c down to €4.20.

Presumably not wishing to discriminate against the non-beer drinking public, the bar has also dropped prices on spirits and minerals.

Mr Power and the pub's owners Frank and John Smith hope that cheaper grog might win back the 15pc or so of custom they lost after the smoking ban was introduced.

Since the price cuts were introduced on Wednesday, the reaction has been good, said Mr Power who insists the changes are there to stay. "It's not going to break the bank," he said.

What's the chances that other publicans follow suit?
That's right: None.

seamus

€3.75 for a pint of Guinness!
Back to...eh...sometime last year when it was that price. But all the same, it's a welcome development. The Submarine is big & popular too, he would make the same business without touching his prices. I think this may be a catalyst for other pubs to follow suit, however doubtful.
Pity the Submarine is miles from me and is a complete hole.....

ToxicPaddy

Originally posted by Mac daddy
They make most of there money of the softdrinks!

I agree with ya here...

I worked in the bar trade for 8 years and between spirits and soft drinks, pubs make
most of their money on these... One of the pubs I worked in, ordered so much soft
drinks that they were making 1000% profit per bottle.. And on a busy night they
were selling about 12 crates of coke alone as mixers for vodka etc..

Add to that the spirits and beer so that gives an indication of what money is being
made by publicans..

Tox