New mini pc build. Advise plz!

M@lice

I'm going to build my first pc very soon. How soon i havn't decided yet and i hope some of you can help me make up my mind. Getting the pc is not a matter of urgency so i could wait till the end of the summer when prices should be lower but it would be nice to get the machine right away of course!

The underlying thought behind most of the parts i have choosen is value. I'm looking for bang for the buck so keep that in mind. I'm ordering everything from jes-computer.

So here's the list of parts including my own comments.

Shuttle XPC SN45G Rev. 2.0 + Carry bag

(Shuttle seems to be the way to go with mini pcs but there is a biostar which is cheaper and has sata support but is not made for native 400mhz fsb so probably won't overclock as well as the shuttle and the psu probably isn't as good. I've read that the biostar can be oced to 400mhz fsb on the net so it may be the better choice. Perhaps someone out there knows more and can advise me plz! )

Amd Athlon XP-Mobile 2500+

(I was going to get the regular 2500 but it has come up by a tenner in price recently making the mobile only a tenner more expensive. Its a better overclocker and less heat will be a big advantage in a mini pc so it seems like the obviouse choice. Comments?)

2X 256mb TwinMOS ddr400 cl2.5

(Seems to be the best value branded memory. I can't see myself ever upgrading the memory in the future so i think i might as well use dual channel for the slight performance increase and 1gb of memory is just too expensive at the moment and i'm not sure this machine would take full advantage of it. Also the cl2.0 sticks are just too expensive as well and don't offer a huge performance increase i've read.)

Sapphire 9800SE AIW Gold.

(Now this one has me stumped. Before the choice was easy. Now i want to have tv in so i can watch and record tv on my pc for when i'm in college next year. I'm not sure where i'll be staying yet. Jes used to have an 9800 AIW card for E160. I've heard these cards softmod to pro consitently so i save money and have a good chance of getting 9800 pro performance. But this card which is the only one they have right now is E185 so its almost as expensive as a pro. Jes also have an MSI 9800 pro which i've read is 256bit memory and r360 core. And MSI cards are great because you get a huge software bundle with them and its only E190 but then i have to get a tv card which adds about another E50 which i'm not sure i'm willing to spend. I kinda want to leave the only other pci slot free in case i ever want to but a fancy soundcard in it for some home recording. Does anyone know what exactly the "Gold" part in the AIW means? please advise me on this dilemma! )

Samsung SP1614N 160GB 8MB cache.

(Popular drive around here. I'd get the sata version if i was getting the biostar box.)

LiteOn LDW-812S 8X

(I picked the LiteOn drive because it has the best cd-rom/r/rw performance of the dvd writers and i remember someone around here saying they're a very good drive but do correct me if i'm wrong.)

Logitech MX510 + fUnc sUrface

(should i get mouse skatez as well?)

Zalman Theater 6 ZM-RS6F

(I'm not sure where i'll be living next year so i thought headphones would be a good idea instead of speakers. Plus when i get speakers i want them to be savage but i can't quite afford top of the line speakers atm. So i was stuck between decent heaphones for both pc and say an mp3 player but went for these as games and dvd movies will benefit. And they sound pretty good according to tomshardware. Comments?)

Win Xp Home

(Now I heard this will be in german. Will this be a problem? Can't i just download an english addon from windows update? I can't find win xp this cheap anywhere else. Does anyone know a better place to get the os?)

All that comes to E965 + postage.

Should i get some thermal paste while i'm at it?

I've heard there's a fan on the shuttle's that can be replaced to make the machine more silent. What should i get?

What about blank dvd media. Should i get some of that while i'm at it?

I've been warned about keyboards and the os as they'll be of german taste. Anything else i should look out for?

All advice greatly apreciated and if you have read this whole post i applaud your patience.

Cheers!!

unklerosco

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=6293&GroupID=37

If i was goin SFF thats what id go for(comes in black too) I think its better lookin than the shuttles and afaik its cheaper. Also performs better...

To be honsest if ur thinkin of "some home recording" etc i think ur better of not goin for a shuttle etc. Try http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=6370&GroupID=8 more http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=1739259

Not much bigger than a shuttle but with more space inside and the option to pick ur mobo it gives u much more choice , Cyrus has one. Pm him im sure he'll give u more info.

As for gfx, Id go for a 9800pro n a tv card if pos. Mouse n matt r great, have the same. Wouldn't go for those headphones, I think they're a bit gimicky. Go for a decent set of Seinhiser r somfin of the like. 2500 mobile is a good clocker, rams seems okay and the lite on is a good drive afaik...

Wouldn't know about windows n keyboards

Col_Loki

Amd Athlon XP-Mobile 2500+

Good choice, lower heat and voltage compared with regular 2500's. Good overclockers also, and unlocked.

2X 256mb TwinMOS ddr400 cl2.5

Ram prices are going down of late and might hit a bottom point like it did last year where 512mb was €60 for Pc3200 stuff. Mabye get 512mb stick as the performance difference of Dual DDR is crappy on AMD XP systems .

Sapphire 9800SE AIW Gold.

For a shuttle this is a good option, you dont want to use up your only PCI slot if you dont need to . If you are getting one make sure you get a 256bit model of you dont have a chance of softmodding to a 9800pro. If it doesent softmod then its roughly the same performance as the 9600XT which isint bad.

Tis up to you wheather to go with a 9800pro or take a chance (and possibly save money and space).

Samsung SP1614N 160GB 8MB cache.

Popular, and nice and quiet. Good drive.

LiteOn LDW-812S 8X

I have just got the Lite-On 851 burner and i love it, very quiet, decent quality, pretty fast......... very happy.


Not sure about XP , someone else might answer that Q......... ive never had to download a pack.

Media is cheap from www.pricestorm.com and free delivery but make sure to read the review from www.cdfreaks.com and see what media is best compatible with the drive .

Im not sure about the shuttle cooling, again other people will prob answer this for you.

M@lice

I think its better lookin than the shuttles and afaik its cheaper.

Er, its more expensive than the shuttle, about E50 more from that website and E25 more on jes. But wat about that biostar?

However the Antec aria looks uber sweet! I could fit two sata drives for raid 0 and put an arctic cooler on the graphics card and still have room for a sound card. But then i can't buy a handy carrybag for it like the shuttle. Plus i can't find any micro atx motherboards on jes for it either. I don't know if i'll be able as the price might just go too high.

Can anyone recommend a good micro atx nforce2 board with sata support for a price comparison?

And i don't think this is the place to ask but i'm thinkin of buying a digital camera from them while i'm at it but i can't decide between a pentax optio 30 or a minolta dimage x31. The minolta is more compact but the pentax takes better quality pictures i'd say. Any recommendations?

Oh and i take it you think i should just buy the machine asap?

Oh and i see adata ram on shop4memory thats just E38 for 256mb cl2.5! any good? I'm not sure about that brand.

unklerosco

Try Arts n Photo for camera help r check this site, great for camera reviews

http://www.steves-digicams.com/

I have the ADATA ram, seemingly its best on P4 systems, what i have... Great ram tho, much better than the GEIL i had in my last system. Shop for mem is v.good place to by ram. I ordered mine on the mon and had it on tue morn. Free delivery too...

Goto www.custompc.co.uk Hit reviews/labs/SFF bare bones. V.good reviews of 8 diff systems.

silverside

I recently built a SFF system very similar to yours:
Biostar IDEQ 200N
9800pro
SATA hd
512MB ram (one stick).

I eventually gave up on it and built an athlon64 system for the following reasons:

9800pro was so big that I had to mount the HD in the floppy bay, leaving no room for a floppy.
9800pro gets very hot inside the case, and interfered with sound card.
Various hassles setting up Bios and NForce2 drivers, especially SATA.
Generally, case is a bit cramped.
Despite publicity, the case was quite noisy.
I got a 2500xp mobile, and the bios didnt recognise it straight away. It worked OK, but defaulted to 133X10 - however it was stable up to at least 180*11.

Personally I wouldnt get an SFF again - a small mini tower like a sonata has effectively much the same footprint, despite being twice the height, and is less noisy and easier to set up. somehting like an Antec LANBoy perhaps?

If you look on forums.sudhian.com you will see various people had problems similar to me.

RE OS: I don't think you can just convert XP by a language pack. Check with Jes or Try getting English OEM OS off overclockers.co.uk or komplett instead.

Re memory: I see no reason to buy 2X256 instead of 512 for an AMD system.

RE digital cameras: I have a Dimage X31 (impulse buy - good price in Dixons tax free) and am very happy with it. I can post a sample photo if you want.

jesus_thats_gre

In my opinion 5.1 headphones are a waste of money. I have used these for long periods and they offer no benefit. Go for a decent pair on Seinheiser cans and you will be glad!

M@lice

Silverside.

Are your problems specific to the biostar? Most people i've talked too with shuttles are very happy with them. Plus i'll be putting a 9800se AIW in it so heat shouldn't be as much of a problem.

And i'd love to see some sample pics from you camera. Cheers!

So as for headphones i'm think sennheiser px100's or 200's perhaps intead of the zalmans. What do you think? But I don't know where to get them.

And still looking for a micro atx board i could use in the aria case. Elara have it for sale at about E120 i found out.

silverside

I don't know anything about shuttles really, but look at forums.sudhian.com for general talk about SFF pc's.

I'll send on some pics soon.

unklerosco

try www.richersounds.ie for headphones

ozt9vdujny3srf

http://www.controlled-insanity.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=43

http://www.3dvelocity.com/reviews/zalman_hp/zalmanphones_1.htm


Those zalman headphones arent great for music apparently with a pretty average base range so i'm not sure if i'd go with them if i was listening to music on my pc.

Like Jesus_thats_gre said seinheisser make very nice headphones.

M@lice

Grr, the price of the 2500xp mobile just went up but the price of the regular 2500xp just went down so i reckon i'll get the regular 1 again.

I've saved afew quid on that and 1 stick of 512mb twinmoss is slightly cheaper than 2 256mb sticks so thats another few quid saved!

I've also decided not to get any headphones for the time being.

But i'm still don't know about Win xp or the fan to replace. And i still havn't found any micro atx mainboards to look at. :dunno:

unklerosco

try http://www.microdirect.co.uk/productlister.aspx?GroupID=526

Asus have two mini atx mobos there... Theres a thread somewhere about mini itx, some of the sites on that thread might do some

try www.hitide.ie for some papst fans, i have two of there 120mm and they r quiter than silence :rolleyes:

Col_Loki

But i'm still don't know about Win xp or the fan to replace. And i still havn't found any micro atx mainboards to look at.

Why do you want a motherboard if your getting a shuttle barebones? The motherboard comes with the case & PSU.

unklerosco

I think heis talking about the Antec Aria case, it doesn't come wiv a mobo..

maxheadroom

DON'T buy Windows XP from Jes unless you speak German. You cannot change the language to English, so you'll just end up buying the English version from somewhere else anyway.

Col_Loki

http://www.komplett.ie/k/kl.asp?bn=10119&sortBy=p&minprice=&maxPrice=

komplett have3 or so m-ATX boards, you could pick up an English OS from them also?

M@lice

Ok, should have got back on this way sooner.

DON'T buy Windows XP from Jes unless you speak German. You cannot change the language to English, so you'll just end up buying the English version from somewhere else anyway.

Is this spoken from personal experience cos this is a problem! I won't be buying a m-atx, i've checked them out and it just too expensive and with btx and pci-e coming out buying such a case isn't a good investment either. Now i don't think you can buy an oem windows xp from komplett unless your buying a few parts at the same time. The only thing i have here is a copy of win 98 and i'm not sure that could even tide me over because there's alot of newer components on the list which i'm sure won't be happy with win 98.

So does any1 else know where i could get a copy of win xp for a good price? I don't see any1 selling a copy on the for sale forum at the moment either.

silverside

overclockers.co.uk ?

M@lice

They're only selling oem versions as well so won't doesn't that also mean they won't sell it to you on its own? Plus isn't they're delivery very expensive?

silverside

doesnt say anything on the website about only selling it with h/w. all that oem means is it comes in a plain cardboard box, and doesnt get telephone support from microsoft. Post shouldnt be expensive considering you just get a cd (I think) but give them a ring to check.

maxheadroom

Originally posted by M@lice
Ok, should have got back on this way sooner.



Is this spoken from personal experience cos this is a problem! I won't be buying a m-atx, i've checked them out and it just too expensive and with btx and pci-e coming out buying such a case isn't a good investment either. Now i don't think you can buy an oem windows xp from komplett unless your buying a few parts at the same time. The only thing i have here is a copy of win 98 and i'm not sure that could even tide me over because there's alot of newer components on the list which i'm sure won't be happy with win 98.

So does any1 else know where i could get a copy of win xp for a good price? I don't see any1 selling a copy on the for sale forum at the moment either.

Not spoken from personal experience in that I didn't buy one and discover that its in German, but I have researched it, and there is no way to change one localised language version of Windows XP into another one. And given that they're a German shop, they're going to have the German version in stock. You can email them to ask if you need the confirmation.

You will have to buy a keyboard somewhere else though, unless you like German keyboards (Y and Z are transposed), so why not get windows and the keyboard in the same place?

M@lice

You will have to buy a keyboard somewhere else though, unless you like German keyboards (Y and Z are transposed), so why not get windows and the keyboard in the same place?

Its ok i have a keyboard here for the machine. I thought you could get a language pack for windows on windows update but turns out thats its just for internet explorer. :rolleyes:

Oh does anyone think its worth replacing the cooling on the AIW card with a better single slot solution? Any recommendations? If I remember correctly I was thinking of putting a vantec gpu cooler onto it because vantec are supposed to sell good silent solutions.

M@lice

Check it out!

I emailed jes last night and recieved a reply at 2.41 in the morning (bizare!) saying that they can order in an english version of win xp no problem and now look!

Shame its €20 dearer :dunno:

M@lice

Works a charm. I had no trouble putting it together and i havn't built a pc since athon went thunderbird! I really have to praise shuttle as the instuctions were very easy to follow. A bit like lego with pictures and all, cept for the static precautions. It took me less than an hour to put together and about another 2 hours to install everything.

I had to swap the liteon drive for a pioneer dvr-107d because they were out of stock. However it may have been a hasty descision because its a bulk ordered drive and so it came with no software so now i have no nero or anything to burn with. Looks like i'll have to buy a separate copy which is a frankly a pain. Or i'll just wait till i get a copy of linux and use that instead.

I havn't overclocked it at all yet and its running at around 50 degrees idle which seems pretty high but there's not much room for the heat inside i guess. Perhaps i should have gone with the mobile athlon. :rolleyes:

I'll be putting on AVG antivirus and sygate personal firewall later and i'll have to borrow the isdn card from this machine for a while seeing as i have no way of connecting it to the net.

Plus i have to give it some stress tests. I couldn't find any progs that came with it that allow me to monitor temps from windows so i have no idea how hot it runs under load and i know nothing about the gfx card temps. I'll prime 95 it over night i guess.

I have to give credit to jes and gls. I would definately order from them again. And the delivery man found my house despite there being a line missing from my address. So thats my only gripe. Jes need to get the addresses right. I even included my full address in the notes on order section.