Newbie questions

liamo

Hi All,

I'm interested in trying out a Martial Art. One of the less "aggressive" disciplines like Aikido, perhaps.

Are there many Aikido (or similar) clubs in Dublin? Any in South Dublin (Rathfarnham/Dundrum/etc)?

Are there clubs that will cater specifically for adult beginners? Y'know - don't want to be a 40yo in a class of 10yo kids (with apologies for the agism).

Any comments. URLs, etc welcomed.

Regards,

Liamo

Runfree

for a list of clubs in your area please go to Clubs in your area

There is quite a few on there that might interest you and most clubs would have child classes and adult classes at different times.

Cheers,

RunFree

Colm_OReilly

Liamo,

Why are you getting into martial arts for?
What are hoping to gain from them?
What attracts you to martial arts?
Which arts do you consider to be "aggressive"?

If you answer these questions I'm sure the people on these boards will be better able to help you.

liamo

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies.

Runfree, I had already looked at the "Clubs in your area" thread and the only references to Aikido that I saw were outside of Dublin, but thank you for the link anyway. Thank you also for your comment about the children/adult classes - that's good to know.

Colm,

Why are you getting into martial arts for?
It's not so much that I'm "getting into" martial arts. I'm curious and I'd like to try it out to see how it "fits".

What are hoping to gain from them?
The usual : Fitness, a new sport, self-defence.

What attracts you to martial arts?
Apart from the fitness element of participating in a sport, the skill and mental/physical discipline that it demands appeals to me. Additionally, I've been a fencer for the last 7 years or so and I see (with my very inexperienced eye) a number of parallels between fencing and some martial arts. This adds to the appeal.

Which arts do you consider to be "aggressive"?
I have a huge lack of knowledge and experience in this area. However, from the reading that I've done on-line, Aikido appears to be a defensive rather than an attacking style, in that it consists more of blocks, locks and throws than kicks and punches. This is what I meant by "less aggressive" - perhaps it wasn't the most descriptive term I could have used. I hope I've cleared it up.


If I'm mistaken I would welcome correction. Any further comments also welcomed.

Regards,

Liam

dudara

Check out the Dublin universities for Aikido clubs. They might be able to tell you where other Aikido clubs train in the City.

Naos

Firstly, Good man for deciding to join

As you answered Colins questions, you talked a lot about locks, defense etc.
Judo may be another thing you'd be interested in.. its not aggressive, all the moves are passive, using your opponents energy so to speak.

Example, if he throws a round house (tryin to hit ur ear...) and u can duck, his body will naturally turn cos he missed.

look i cant explain **** for ****.. just read up on judo

Colm_OReilly

liamo,

Since you've mentioned self-defence and fitness aspect, you should consider arts that pressure test themselves constantly. I'd go with Mear on trying Judo, as it will be more active than Aikido, and definitely can transfer over to the self defence realm.

It's probably been said 100 times before but don't just stick with the first martial art you come across, shop around and try out a few different schools.

Of course, you're more than welcome to try my style. We train in Firhouse, which isn't too far from Rathfarnham. You can drop me a mail: colm@twokingsmma.net and we can arrange for you to try a class.

Take Care,

Colm

liamo

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for the very helpful replies.

Regards,

Liam

Naos

yo colin, whats ur view onkung fu?

i know my own stuff bout it, wondering from an instrycters point of view.

i might join it, think one is opening near me, think it'd make a good mix with JJ.

dif styles, but i reckon they'd be strong toghether.

dlofnep

Mear,
I wouldn't think much of kung-fu as an effective art, but then again I never thought much of traditional eastern arts. I'm just a realist. If you are really looking for an effective combo, I'd go with muay thai/bjj. No offense to kung-fu practitioners intended.

Colm_OReilly

Mear,

Any deliver system, unless it is constantly pressure tested, will be ineffective. The delivery systems I'd recommend are:

Boxing
Muay Thai
Judo
Wrestling
BJJ
Vale Tudo/MMA
Functional JKD

Colm

Naos

aye well i'll check it out.

more confident now about asking q's on martial arts, plus i know what im looking for. ill attend a class, see what the craic is..

Cake Fiend

That combat hapkido business looks interesting as well.

rainbow kirby

Wouldnt mind giving that a go myself. Where do they train in Dublin?

petals

if you are someone who is starting martial arts but is very scared/nervous and is being told in training that you are not putting in any effort what should you do?

Runfree

Originally posted by petals
if you are someone who is starting martial arts but is very scared/nervous and is being told in training that you are not putting in any effort what should you do?

Talk to your trainer. I know they can seem very serious and harsh at times but they have to be understanding. Most of them have been at it for 15+ years so it all comes natural to them and sometimes they forget what it is like to be a beginner. If you talk to your trainer and explain that you are nervous I am sure he will take it a bit easier on you.

RunFree

petals

I did talk to him, well one of them. I have three and one of them makes me feel nervous cos he just gives out the whole time and says I'm not putting in the effort. The other two are really nice though and when I say I don't know what I'm doing they help and tell me how to do it.

Puck

You need to talk to the guy who says your not putting in the effort. Don't triangulate through the other, friendlier guys or you'll never be able to talk to the other guy. The thing you need to remember is that you're paying this guy to teach you and if all he can do is offer criticism without any helpful advice then he can stick his classes up his arse.

Colm_OReilly

Petals,

Where do you train at? If your instructor is making you nervous all the time perhaps its not the best environment you're in.

I'm presuming from your statement that you're scared and/or nervous that you took up martial arts in the hope of gaining some self-esteem and a bit more courage. From what you've said it doesn't sound like its a place that's going to make you feel better about yourself. I mean pretty soon you could start to avoid training so as not to have to deal with this guy and that will probably lead to an aversion to training and ma.

Let me know if I'm wrong with any of this. You're training should be fun, no point wasting your time on something that's not giving you all the enjoyment it can.

Colm

dudara

I train in TKD and I love in, and the reason I stuck with it at the start when it was hard, was because of my instructor, Mr. Paul Delea. He's an excellent teacher with an infinite amount of patience. He never criticises, just finds a way to correct you.

That's the way it should be in class. If your instructor isn't offering that, then it might be time to find another instructor.

Lemming

Originally posted by Colm_OReilly
Mear,

Any deliver system, unless it is constantly pressure tested, will be ineffective. The delivery systems I'd recommend are:

Boxing
Muay Thai
Judo
Wrestling
BJJ
Vale Tudo/MMA
Functional JKD

Colm

Apologise for going off-topic, but that statement is wildly inaccurate for one reason.

"pressure tested" in what way? Inside a ring? A tournament? Ritualised combat isn't "pressure testing". There are rules and regulations. You can walk away knowing your opponent wont try and bottle the back of your head. I'm wary of words like "Pressure tested" or any art with the word "Combat" in it because it smacks of ritualisation to me. And that defeats the purpose of martial arts imo. They're nothing but buzz-words which have little relevance to application.

If you want to do competitive arts, then the above would do quite well. If you're looking for something else, perhaps not.

All that said, It should be noted that I'm reading a book* on the art I study at the moment so I'm getting a little philisophical about the 'how & why' at the moment.


Point of the ot rant: "What do you want?"



* "The Way of the Ninja: Secret Techniques" by Maasaki Hatsumi

Kev

How do you know if what you are training works, do you bottle each other in the head during training ?

Lemming

Originally posted by Kev
How do you know if what you are training works, do you bottle each other in the head during training ?

If you're fortunate, you'll never have to find out.

Tell me Kev, you stand up against belt-x in your dojo/federation/whatever and do a three minute spar. No head shots, no groin shots, rule x-y-z, etc, etc. What *exactly* have you just "pressure tested"?

It's a bullsh*t phrase coined by a clever marketing-drone.

Kev

well if i sparred someone for 3 minutes with no head or groin shots i would lose, if head and groin shots were allowed i would lose but i would get my head knocked off and my balls kicked in.

Lemming

You still haven't answered my question though. What have you just "presure tested" exactly? Or to couch it in easier terms; "What have you proved exactly"?

Irrrespective of whether you win or lose.

Kev

you have tested whether the techniques you have trained work or not against a resisting opponent.

you haven't answered my question, what way do you train and how do you test it.

Lemming

Originally posted by Kev
you have tested whether the techniques you have trained work or not against a resisting opponent.

So let me see if I've spelled this out correctly ...

You've tested whether or not an attack made in a specific way from a specific direction can be defended in a specific way, from someone who is using the same techniques and style as you, thinking in a similar fashion as you, all in the comfort that there is someone adjudicating and that any "fouls" will be called and there's a time-out around 3 minutes.

What are the odds?

you haven't answered my question, what way do you train and how do you test it.

I did answer it. You're just equating M.A. in terms of winning or losing, and "the right way of doing things".

Kev

Originally posted by Lemming
I did answer it. You're just equating M.A. in terms of winning or losing, and "the right way of doing things".

No you didn't, from your rebuttal am i to assume you train by being attacked from all directions by people with different techniques and style from you, with no adjudication, all techniques are legal and no time limits ?

Lemming

Originally posted by Kev
No you didn't,

Yes. I did. Read the fine print.

from your rebuttal am i to assume you train by being attacked from all directions by people with different techniques and style from you, with no adjudication, all techniques are legal and no time limits ?

See my above answer. You're failing to grasp what I'm saying Kev

Hint: Try looking outside of a tournament ring.

Anyway, apologies to all for bringing this thread seriously off-topic

Kev

If you don't have anything constructive to add why not refrain from posting instead of insulting people.

Lemming

Originally posted by Kev
If you don't have anything constructive to add why not refrain from posting instead of insulting people.

Oh, I'm sorry Kev. Would you like to point out where I insulted you exactly?

I'd be most interested to know ......

Kev

I've looked up and down this thread for where you have answered my question but can't find it, you repeatedly say you have answered it and that i should look in the small print, so i can only assume you are refering to your signature as an excuse not to answer it.

Lemming

Originally posted by Kev
I've looked up and down this thread for where you have answered my question but can't find it, you repeatedly say you have answered it and that i should look in the small print, so i can only assume you are refering to your signature as an excuse not to answer it.

No Kev. If I were referring to my sig, I'd have said so. Just like every other time I've ever used my sig on boards.ie

So now I want an apology for the insult of your false accusation that I insulted you.

Kev

Maybe you would get one if you point out exactly where you answered my question.

Runfree

Right so the two of you are really getting on my nerve now.

Kev:

I think what Lemming is trying to say is that no matter how hard you train you will never find yourself in the same situation as if you were training out in a Dojo.

Please correct me if I am wrong Lemming.

And Lemming please answer his question if I have misunderstood by what you guys are argueing about.


Please sort it out now cause this thread has seriously gone off topic.

RunFree


If you dont want to sort it out then dont post but if you do want to sort it out quick or you both get a weeks banning

Lemming

Originally posted by Runfree

I think what Lemming is trying to say is that no matter how hard you train you will never find yourself in the same situation as if you were training out in a Dojo.

Please correct me if I am wrong Lemming.

You'd be fairly correct Runfree and it shows "pressure testing" to be nothign more than a buzz-word and the provider of a false sense of security to the M.A. student.

And Lemming please answer his question if I have misunderstood by what you guys are argueing about.

TBH he started getting pedantic so I decided to point out that by proxy I had already answered his question on how I train Runfree. I don't train (To the best of my knowledge) with competitive goals in mind, ergo am encouraged to avoid ritualisation/routine in both how I train and my responses to techniques. As for how do you tell if what you're doing works in reality, I already pointed that out. The only sure way that you will ever really know is when you are forced into such a situation. Hopefully you will never have to find out.

Kev

"pressure testing" doesn't have to have competitive goals.

just because a certain training method isnt as realistic as a street fight doesn't make it worthless, if it did all training methods would be worthless.

you say the only way to test if your training works is to be forced into a situation where you have to use it. so that makes all methods as good as each other, you can't argue that tae bo isn't very good for seld defense.

surely the best way to test your training is in an environment with as little restrictions as necessary to keep it safe, and then apply some logic and reasoning.

Kev

If you don't have anything constructive to add why not refrain from posting instead of insulting people.

Runfree

Kev banned for a week for constant trolling.

TwoKingMick

Thats a little harsh.
To lemming i would say, take yourself down to your nearest mma club. Chat to some people for a while then try to get yourself a nice friendly fight. Beforehand YOU decide on the rules, whatever you like, just make it nice and clear to begin with. Then see what pressure tested means.
MMA guys are professional level fighters. Many do it every day, and make a living from it, both as fighters and bouncers.
Less chat, more action, thats my motto.

And yes i realise the irony of saying that on a chat board.

Lemming you said.

I'm wary of words like "Pressure tested" or any art with the word "Combat" in it because it smacks of ritualisation to me. And that defeats the purpose of martial arts imo.

In my experience "pressure tested" martial arts tend to be the least ritualised of all martial arts. Less ceremony, tradition and filler and more performance.

Also not meaning to reiterate Kevs point too much but what do you train in and what approach does that art take.

Are you saying that the only adequate training is street training. Is that what you engage in?

Not trying to troll or offend. Just trying to figure out where you are coming from!:)

Runfree

Thread closed as it has gone seriously off-topic. Please post you comments in the Pressure Testing thread.

Also have reduced Kevs ban to three days.

liamo if you have any more questions please start a new thread and feel free to ask for information.

RunFree