Portugal Vs Netherlands

thejollyrodger

Im going for the Netherlands to win. Also lots of goals and end to end stuff.

mike65

God I knew there was something happening tonight!

I dunno at all, could go either way. Portugal on home inspiration/perspiration.

Mike.

KdjaCL

0-0 boring match

i always wrong so playing the counter card

kdjac

eirebhoy

The match will go to penalties IMO. Portugal to win on peno's, 9/1.

thejollyrodger

there is goals in this yet.
im not particularly impressed with Robben. looks weak and doesnt look like he can go round to many people.

thejollyrodger

told ya
great goal !! should liven things up now

KdjaCL

Good 1st half by portugal and the ref Holland awful cant be any worse in 2nd half.

Ref is great no frees up until 40th minute , cant be unfair if noone gets them

Can see Holland at least trying for a bit so they have to change somfin at half time.

kdjac

eirebhoy

I never knew Ronaldo was so good with his head, its a pity Ferguson has him taking every set piece. Its good to see Frisk isn't taking any diving from Robben and Deco but he is giving bookings for foolish reasons.

Portugal deserve to be winning. Should be a good second half.

mike65

Edgar Davids! There was an old musical hall tune about leaning on a lamp-post....Dutch are awful but I think they should be level. I'd have given the goal.

Mike.

eirebhoy

Liam Brady said at half time that a player isn't offside unless there is daylight between him and the defender. I've heard a few commentator's also say it in the past. Where did they get this idea?

thejollyrodger

ball fully over the line ?? forward fully past the defender not just a foot past?

Holland look Sh1t. no effort what so ever. deserve to go out.

I didnt know davids still has Glaucoma:(

KdjaCL

2-1

oohhhh gettting good now.

kdjac

thejollyrodger

2-1 unlucky portugal... looks like that bad luck to host is back anyway.

eirebhoy

The goal of the tournament by Maniche, without a doubt. Great game, it just doesn't feel like the semi final of Europe's biggest tournament for some reason.

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
forward fully past the defender not just a foot past?

A player can’t be offside if:
+ he receives the ball directly from a goal kick, a throw-in or a corner
+ he is in his own half of the pitch
+ he is level with the second last or last two opponents feet

It doesn't say a player is only offside when every part of his body is past the defender.

PHB

Can somebody ****ing tell me what the **** the dutch tactics were meant to do?
I don't understand what the **** was going on!

I'm fairly happy Robben is gone to Chelsea after tonights preformance
Overmars was doing ok cept he was gona be sent off
Seedorf was absolute ****, just hoofing it hoping Van Nist could pull off a miracle.

I can't remember one time where Van Nist had a decent chance on goal, not one? Anyone think of any?

jesus christ, I hope that manager gets fired and stops playing stupid stupid tactics that havn't worked in any game yet

FFS!

thejollyrodger

i was only posting why they might say that...

sad to see my team holland are gone sniff

zAbbo

Cheats, fckin cheats, as Liam and Dunphy are saying

gwan Portugal

eirebhoy

Originally posted by PHB
jesus christ, I hope that manager gets fired and stops playing stupid stupid tactics that havn't worked in any game yet

The Dutch have a history of looking great on paper but not on the pitch. I said in a post last week that any non-Dutch person who gets to see the Dutch play would never bet on them winning a tournament (Just like most sensible Irish people wouldn't bet on England, because we get to see them play and they aren't as good as they look on páipéar).

PHB

Yeah I agree with you but heres my question, which I'm hoping someone could anwser.

Why were they playing one man up front if nobody was going to get up to support him? I assume there is logic behind it but I'm not sure what it is

Dewey

I thought that was a great match. Figo was brilliant and back to his best. Another great header from Ronaldo. But i couldnt belive he got booked for taking off his shirt.
No doubt Maniche will get goal of the tourament, and the feckers at RTE missed it. i'm not sure if it was RTE's fault of the people who were running it in Lisbon but they were showing the reply and next thing you new George Hamaltion was saying goal of the tourament.
How much did Chelsea pay for Robben?? I'm glad United didnt buy him because he didnt impress me with his diving. Duffer wont have anything to worry about next season.
Why was Overmars taken off? he was causing alot of problems for Portugal, Ruudy was poor again but it was poor from Holland in the first half.
Portugal deserve to be in the final and i'm glad Figo for MOTM.

I think tomorrows match between Czechs and Greece will go to extra time/penos.

Raskolnikov

Why hasn't anyone seen through Deco yet? He's got to be one of the worst footballers of the tournament, his passing is horrendous, he can't dribble, has no pace (Japp Stam had the legs of him for cryin' out loud) and worst of all he just repeatedly falls to the ground if a player so much as farts in his general direction. Did you see the open shot he had of goal with no player within 10 yards of him, yet he fluffed it! I wouldn't mind but Andrande and Miguel have gotten ripped into depsite having done far better than Deco has in any of his matches.

I can't wait for him to come to England if he decides to follow Mourinho

Big Ears

Originally posted by eirebhoy
Liam Brady said at half time that a player isn't offside unless there is daylight between him and the defender. I've heard a few commentator's also say it in the past. Where did they get this idea?

Under FIFA rulings he is technically right and technically wrong . If a player has any part of his boady in line with the defender(for instance his back heel ) the ref is allowed to call it onside or off (its his own decision ) , But also if any part of the players body is ahead of the defender(for instance his front toe ) it can be called offside or off .

I really think FIFA should make a better ruling than this because this leaves refs the hard decision of onside or off , even though its both .

I hop-e this dosent confuse u , as offside decision are the hardest things to understand now days in football .

Töpher

Originally posted by Dewey

No doubt Maniche will get goal of the tourament, and the feckers at RTE missed it. i'm not sure if it was RTE's fault of the people who were running it in Lisbon but they were showing the reply and next thing you new George Hamaltion was saying goal of the tourament.

Everyone missed it, pictures were dished out by some Portugese TV station, BBC missed it too. So we all heard the screaming, and saw the replay 30 seconds later! :rolleyes:

leeroybrown

I'm glad to see the Dutch gone. They lacked any technical/tactical quality and couldn't even give 100% commitment to playing. Portugal may lack a decent striker but at least they can play decent football when they try.

But i couldnt belive he got booked for taking off his shirt.

It was one of the directives handed down to the referees. I think it was something along the lines that all over-exhuberant celebrations (including shirt removal) were to result in a booking. Frisk was just applying the rules but UEFA (and most other football authorities of late) are just going way overboard on this.

How much did Chelsea pay for Robben?? I'm glad United didnt buy him because he didnt impress me with his diving. Duffer wont have anything to worry about next season.

Robben had a lot of time on the ball for Holland and he did almost nothing with it. He seems to run out of ideas once the full back can match his pace. Based on what we saw in Portugal, Duff is an order of magnitude better than him. The only problem is that good footballing sense has had minimal impact on a lot of Chelsea decisions since Abramovic took over.

bucks73

Thought the match was ok and Portugal definitely the better team. Well impressed with Carvalho at the back. Fine player. As Raskolnikov said also I dont think much of Deco. His diving antics are infuriating as Celtic and United have both found out and his all round game doesnt impress me at all. Ronaldo, Maniche and Carvalho have been the best players for Portugal for me.

Figo had a very good game. Its about time too. I think he said to himself that he if he turns it on in the semi and final he will pick up a winners medal. He had to do something to psyche himself up as he had done nothing so far.

The Dutch and Advocaat are just a joke. Advocaat was poor at Rangers so why should he be any different with Holland? If you are chasing a game and have either two or three strikers on the pitch you need to supply them with crosses. Why then would you take off two wingers and just try to rely on long balls over the top?

The only reason Holland looked as if they were on top for the last 25 minutes was because Portugal defended deeper after going 2-0 up which just invites pressure. When they pulled one back it just made Portugal more nervous and they pulled everyone back and brought on defensive subs. The Dutch could only create one half chance in all this time when Cocu didnt get on the end of a free kick.

Not presuming anything but a Portugal v Czech Rep final is probably the best you could get from what was on show in the tournament.

leeroybrown

I think the Dutch would have been twice the team if they had a reasonably manager (even a passable one would do) who was willing to play two strikers up front. They brought Van Nistelrooy, Makaay, Kluivert and Van Hooijdonk to Portugal yet only Van Nistelrooy got a decent run up front. Makaay was stuck out on the right when he was brought on and Van Hooijdonk was thrown on when Advocaat decided to go route-one. If they had dropped one of their ineffectual central midfielders (either Seedorf or Cocu) and played two up front they would have been a far better team.

TwoShedsJackson

Robben was crap - pathetic diving attempts and whining until he finally got booked. Van Nistelrooy was hopeless too, and seemed more intent on injuring a Portuguese player than getting the ball in half the challenges he went in for. He's got a nasty streak that guy

Delighted Portugal won, although they were by no means great themselves, I'd say the Czechs (assuming they reach the final) will take them apart.

redspider

PT 2-1 NL

This game had the potential to be a classic but it didn’t turn out that way. The Dutch left their inventiveness at home and although they did create a few chances they were outmatched by a solid Portuguese defence. PT did all the attacking and deserved the goals they got. They were unfortunate to give away that own-goal - that was the only way the Dutch were likely to score on the night, ie: via a major defensive error, in this case a very unlucky one.

The game changed tactically after the NL goal as PT played far too safe and defended their one goal lead, a tactical approach that could have cost them dearly as has been proven elsewhere in this tournament. However, the Dutch had already made tactical errors by taking Overmars off at half-time, who was causing trouble down the right-hand side and was the most threat in the first half.

The level of the poor performance can be seen in the stats. Just 7 shots from NL in the whole game and only 1, yes just one of those on target. NL played with just van Nistelrooy up-front supported by two wingers (Robben, Overmars), 3 across midfield and 4 in the back, with the two full-backs as quasi wing-backs. The midfielders move around and interchange, with Cocu responsible for defensive helping duties. Ruud vN didn’t even get one attempt at goal in the whole match, although his run potentially caused Andrade to miss-direct his clearance and flukely cause that own goal. He was offside just about in the first half in another incident.

Overall the Dutch didn’t perform on the night. I’m not sure the reason why but they played poorly as individuals and as a team and on that form didn’t deserve to get through. But remember, they also played poorly against Denmark and against Germany, so this was not a once-off. Its true that some blame can be put on the manager, Advocaat who will surely now be sacked/resign, but it must also be recognised that the players are equally culpable. Players are involved heavily in the tactics and formation in the Dutch team, this is clearly a formation that van Nistelrooy wanted as he was the sole striker but he grew unhappy on the night as Carvalho and Andrade and the added cover of Costinha completely marked him out of it and dried up any service. Any chances he did have to create a goal he wasted by selfishly keeping the ball for far too long and trying to get in a shot on his own, which he failed to do.

The first PT goal was due to bad marking by van Bronckhurst. He didn’t pick up his player C.Ronaldo at all so it was a simple point blank header from 6 yards. That’s a few goals that he has scored with his head, and I guess it comes about that wingers (such as Kilbane for Ireland) tend not to get marked by good defenders of headers. I mentioned it previously that van Bronckhurst is not a defender and this is a case in point - he is midfielder. NL always want to play Total Football (eg: Cocu playing as a defender later in the game, midfielders and even wingers playing as full-backs, etc). This is ok if you have 10x Cruijff’s, Gullits or Rijkjaard’s on the field, and even Cocu at his peak could play it quite well. However, the Dutch team do not have such quality in this team.

The second PT goal was perhaps unstoppable. OK, you could say that the NL defence was sleeping and failed to get out to block the shot but how many times do players score from there and how many times would Maniche score from there if he did it 10 times in a row. My judgement is that he would perhaps score just 1 or 2 so this goal was just an amazing and rare goal.

PT fully deserved the win. Figo upped his game via self-motivation and it was good to see him play the full 90 mins. I would have liked to see Rui Costa on again and I definitely disagreed with Scolari’s tactical change and bring off Ronaldo for Petit who was very small indeed. Hopefully, a good performance by CZ this evening will see them through and hopefully the two team will go at it for the final, although there is a chance they may not. It could be PT’s year this tournament.

Big Ears

One thing , that a lot of people have failed to pick up on is how well Miguel played last night , he was right up there with Figo for man of the macth .

I was suprised Dunphy picked him out as a weak link alongside Andrade(who actually is a weak link )

I still fancy the Czechs to win it .

redspider

I think Miguel is a good defender but he doesn't have the ball control when going forward, so is not good at an overlapping back or a wing-back. If you spot him making these mistakes you will think that he's woeful.

Andrade is not perfect but he is not bad either. Carvalho is their best defender.

Overall though, I think they work well as a Unit, and it is clear that they have a good defence. PT are just missing a central striker in my opinion. They should play several during the final to see what happens. eg: Nuno Gomez, Postiga

bucks73

Originally posted by redspider
Its true that some blame can be put on the manager, Advocaat who will surely now be sacked/resign, but it must also be recognised that the players are equally culpable. Players are involved heavily in the tactics and formation in the Dutch team, this is clearly a formation that van Nistelrooy wanted as he was the sole striker but he grew unhappy on the night as Carvalho and Andrade and the added cover of Costinha completely marked him out of it and dried up any service. Any chances he did have to create a goal he wasted by selfishly keeping the ball for far too long and trying to get in a shot on his own, which he failed to do.

If the players were heavily involved in team and tactic matters, as no doubt they were, this is totally wrong and is entirely the coachs fault. If a coach gives in to the requests of players on team matters then they will have no respect for him. A coach without respect is of no use whatsoever. You cant blame certain players for getting their way on things like the formation and starting line up if the coach gives in to them. If Ruud told Fergie to play 4-3-3 and him as the lone striker he would be lucky not to come into contact with a flying boot and most definitely would end up on the bench for a game or two. Players will always try to get away with what they are allowed to.

Advocaat obviously wasnt strong enough or intelligent enough to create a better team than we have seen. TBH we havent seen a Dutch team just a bunch of individuals. Advocaat would have got more respect if he got rid of anyone issuing demands and created a squad with a better team spirit and then he could have told them the way he wanted them to play.

No doubt he will not be in charge for much longer but unless they appoint someone with the balls to axe a few of the primadonnas they will always underachieve.

eyerer

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Why hasn't anyone seen through Deco yet? ...

i agree, i can't believe how slow he is either
was surprised by overmars' pace, still looks a decent player, could fill a RM hole...

Originally posted by Einstürzende
Everyone missed it, pictures were dished out by some Portugese TV station, BBC missed it too. So we all heard the screaming, and saw the replay 30 seconds later! :rolleyes:

useless ****s, how many times must we miss live incident because some dumbass wants to squeeze in a replay
and i'm also sick of seeing close ups of tossers like beckham when the ball is in play, i don't want to look at his face

yeah dick was and still is useless, he should be gone pretty quick, clueless, cocu is a waste of space (and i knew he'd miss in the penalty shootout, got no skill or bottle) and he took off a defender to put on a midfielder instead of taking off cocu

mike65

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/holland/3844475.stm

I have to say I thought Frisk was a homer last night.

Mike.

redspider

Originally posted by bucks73
If the players were heavily involved in team and tactic matters, as no doubt they were, this is totally wrong and is entirely the coachs fault. If a coach gives in to the requests of players on team matters then they will have no respect for him. A coach without respect is of no use whatsoever. etc, etc
Advocaat obviously wasnt strong enough or intelligent enough to create a better team than we have seen.

This is not a new problem with the Dutch set-up. In fact it emanates since 1974 when one Johann Cruijff and fellow stars such as Neeskens had a major say on the team formation, tactics, etc. So, this is the way it has always been and arguably there has been some success (1974, 1978 and 1988). It does however require very good players to pull it off. The current bunch just weren't good enough. Everyone in NL is blaming Advocaat, I'm not too sure how much they are blaming van Hanegem the assistant, but player power always has been a major influence.

I agree totally that club set-ups are different and Alex Ferguson is notorious at ensuring that he is the boss and no-one else and would rather sell a player that challenges his authority than keep him. I guess he has had two special relationships down through the years, Cantona and Keane. He fell out with Beckham and got rid of him. Ferguson wouldn't last long at the NL job !!!!