25 lessons = 1 year no claims?

hussey

My driving instructor told me if you do 25 lessons and you are a competent driver you are entitled to a cert, which insurers are obliged to give you a 1year no claims discount on your quote

any one ever heard of this??

ChipZilla

If you do 25 lessons and you are a competent driver on the day of your driving test, you get a full licence. :eek: :eek: :eek:

mudflapgirl

Originally posted by ChipZilla
If you do 25 lessons and you are a competent driver on the day of your driving test, you get a full licence. :eek: :eek: :eek:

That is, of course, reliant on your test coming up this side of next century.

*tapping foot in waiting since last oct*

ChipZilla

Yeah, that as it may be. But the insurance companies don't see you or hussey as a competent driver until you pass your test (or should that be a couple of years after you pass your test?)...

Why would they give you a free year's no claim discount for taking 25 lessons?

All the other drivers on the road with full licences have a hard enough time maintaining their NCBs.

mudflapgirl

I was in my own way agreeing with you.

I have a few yrs NCB and whatnot. I might complain about my premium (though it is quite low considering what some people get quoted) but I agree with why insurance companies charge more for provisional drivers than fully licensed drivers.

My complaint was morseo about the length of time waiting for a test. I applied last year and, through no fault of my own, couldn't attend the inital test date I was given and had to cancel. I have been waiting ever since.

So why anybody would equate 25 lessons as worth one years of actual driving experience, or NCB if you will, is beyond me. Everybody knows that no amount of lessons can prepare you for when you get on the road when you think of the amount of unhinged drivers out there - provisional drivers or fully licensed. And TBH I think that any company even considering offering that kind of deal to anyone needs their heads checked.

seamus

Was it not one of the insurance companies who was offering this - Do 25 lessons before you go out on the road, and we'll give you a premium reduction equivalent to 1 year's NCB?

uberwolf

Would it not be vaguely similar to the situation in Italy where, I believe, there's a reasonable starting/introductury rate at it goes up or down from there depending on the usual crash vs. no claim story.

"% lessons is prob more than most get and could be interpreted as a statement of intent by the insurance companies, and at 30 a pop 25 lessons would cost more than the no claims would knock off!!!

a_ominous

One of the main reasons there is such a high failure rate for the driving test and consequently such a high accident rate is the low numbers of people who take driving lessons. And lessons from qualified people. Hands up who learnt from their dad, uncle, brother, husband wife, etc.?

I've been driving for almost 20 years now and got my bike licence 2 years ago. I've a keen interest in driver testing and have taken lessons with a view to driver instruction but I don't know of any company here who offers a discount for X lessons from a driving instructor. Did the instructor mention any specific insurance companies?

I do know that on continental Europe, a person applies for a permit, gets lessons from a qualified instructor. Only when the learner meets basic driving competency are they allowed to drive a car say with a parent or other appropriate full licence holder. And they have to have a full licence holder with them until they pass the driving test. _That's_ what we need here too, but it still looks like some time away.

ChipZilla

Maybe the whole thing is some scam by the Secret Underground Federation of Masonic Driving Instructors™ to drum up more business from gullible learners...

hussey

Quinn direct confirmed it was true

you shall get 1years NCB, if you do 25 lessons with a registered DIR driver

dcGT

But will that 1 year's NCB only be recognised by Quinn Direct thereafter? i.e. can you go to another company next year and say, 'yeah, I have 2 years NCB'?

DC.

mudflapgirl

Now I've heard it all........really.

How having 25 lessons under your belt can make you less likely to crash your car and equate to a full years NCB is beyond me.

Is it only Quinn Direct who offer that reduction? Or is it industry wide? I was with Quinn Direct up til last week and they never mentioned it to me. I changed cause the were quoting me over €300 more than Eagle Star anyway.

hussey

No it doesn't not carry on - just for the first year

It is not just quinn direct - it is all insurance companys

it is the law they must give it to you.

It is not the nature of companys (esp irish insurance ones) to mention discounts

also you need to be competent driver, if you take 25 lessons and you can't drive, the instructor can reject this certificate

PBC_1966

Originally posted by a_ominous
I do know that on continental Europe, a person applies for a permit, gets lessons from a qualified instructor. Only when the learner meets basic driving competency are they allowed to drive a car say with a parent or other appropriate full licence holder. And they have to have a full licence holder with them until they pass the driving test. _That's_ what we need here too, but it still looks like some time away.

Do I infer from that in Ireland a learner can drive without a qualified driver sitting alongside? Sounds strange if that's the case.

There was a news item here in Britain some time ago about young Germans coming over to England to learn to drive and take the test. The over-burdensome rules about having to take professional lessons in Germany made it much cheaper for them to get a British license, even with the travel and accommodation costs added in.

If a person shows his or her ability to drive safely by passing a test, I really don't see it matters who taught them to drive.

hussey

http://www.dir.ie/benifits.htm

aodh_rua

25 lessons at €35 a lesson comes out at €875. Would that equate to the potential savings from a 1yr NCB?

mudflapgirl

Originally posted by aodh_rua
25 lessons at €35 a lesson comes out at €875. Would that equate to the potential savings from a 1yr NCB?

In my experience no. Most savings for NCB for first year is about 300/400 - you could use the difference on getting lessons and still prolly have cash left over.

I could be wrong though....

a_ominous

Originally posted by PBC_1966
Do I infer from that in Ireland a learner can drive without a qualified driver sitting alongside? Sounds strange if that's the case.
...

No; in Ireland you do not have to take lessons. Period. You do in Germany, France. In Ireland a provisional licence holder is required to have a full licence holder in the car unless the learner is on their second provisional licence. But like most laws, there is no enforcement. You tend to find more enforcement in Europe and more compliance. The Irish attitude in general tends to be "ah sure it'll be grand what harm am I doing".
A car is a potentially lethal weapon and to let badly or un- trained drivers out on the roads is socially irresponsible and shows a great deal of ineptitude on the government's part.

Now where did I put my soapbox?

seamus

Originally posted by a_ominous
No; in Ireland you do not have to take lessons. Period. You do in Germany, France. In Ireland a provisional licence holder is required to have a full licence holder in the car unless the learner is on their second provisional licence. But like most laws, there is no enforcement. You tend to find more enforcement in Europe and more compliance. The Irish attitude in general tends to be "ah sure it'll be grand what harm am I doing".
A car is a potentially lethal weapon and to let badly or un- trained drivers out on the roads is socially irresponsible and shows a great deal of ineptitude on the government's part.

Now where did I put my soapbox?

It's a very valid concern, as i recently found out that 7 in 10 dead motorcyclists were learners. I was more shocked than I should have been. I wonder could we get the same crash stats for car drivers?

Judges are getting tough on this, and handing down 6 month bans for driving unaccompanied, but without detection, what use is that?

PBC_1966

Originally posted by a_ominous
No; in Ireland you do not have to take lessons. Period. You do in Germany, France. In Ireland a provisional licence holder is required to have a full licence holder in the car unless the learner is on their second provisional licence

Ah, so a learner can drive unaccoompanied if on the second provisional?

U.K. rules specify that a learner must always be accompanied by a licensed driver, minimum age 21 who has held a license for at least 3 years.

Oh, and despite my limited time spent traveling in Ireland, I think I got a taste of the "Ah, sure, it'll be all right" outlook.

a_ominous

Found this link on the NAtional Safety Council site
There are no figures for the number of accidents with provisional riders. There were some figures elsewhere of 42% of people who filled in their survey at the 2003 bike show having provisional licences. But that is a meaningless figure.
I recall reading possibly on Hibernian web site that 70% of riders have provisional licences. Certainly provisional licence holders in a majority. No incentive for older riders with provisional licences to do the test. Carole Nash don't penalise them and they can rider unrestricted bikes legally. Was a derogation granted when the power restiction came in.

vector

quote
...
Ah, so a learner can drive unaccoompanied if on the second provisional?
...

Yes, but on the third provisional he must be accomponied again.

Perhaps the independence of the second is to grant some freedom to those old drivers who having held a full licence for many years let it lapse for a period exceeding five years and now drive on a "second provisional".

I know a old people like (aged about 40 - 60) who let their licences lapse just like that.

(sidebar: how long is the driver theory test pass certificate valid for can't find info on their site)

ChipZilla

Originally posted by aodh_rua
25 lessons at €35 a lesson comes out at €875. Would that equate to the potential savings from a 1yr NCB?

Jesus, anybody see the big picture? Like how €875 worth of lessons might make you a better driver? As opposed to saving a few quid on insurance while you've still got a provisional?

Seems to me people will take it up the a**e insurance-wise when it comes to driving around on a provisional, rather than spending money on a decent instructor and trying to get a full licence a bit quicker. PBC_1966 is right about the "Ah, sure, it'll be all right" attitude... :dunno:

PBC_1966

Originally posted by vector
Yes, but on the third provisional he must be accomponied again.

OK, I give up trying to figure out the logic that went into that!

seamus

Originally posted by PBC_1966
OK, I give up trying to figure out the logic that went into that!

In order to get a third provisional, you must have undergone and failed a test (or have one pending). So it does kind of make sense.

The only problem is that the entire system is based on honour. It's easily fiddled and abused.

Quite a lot of young Irish people get a provisional licence to use as ID to get into pubs etc, and don't bother driving a car. Then they get a car a few years later, and apply for, and get a second provisional licence, at which point they pop out on the roads, and drive around, utterly inexperienced and uneducated, and legally without any form of accompaniment.
People who take a driving test on a second provisional, can do and fail a test, then drive home from the test, disdained, but alone.

The entire system needs an overhaul.

vector

Originally posted by seamus
...The entire system needs an overhaul.

I see your point, but I don't believe that the current administration could make any changes that would improve the situation.

Things would only get more difficult for learner drivers and insurance wouldn't decrease by a substantive amount.