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Are men less manly nowadays?

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  • 22-06-2004 2:16pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭


    Or it could be worded 'Are men more wimpy nowadays?'

    Whenever I hear men complaining of the 'pressures' of modern life, I always think that we've forgotten what our parents/grandparents/etc. had to endure to pay the bills. You'll often hear people complaining of having to work long hours in the office, but it's really nothing compared to having to work the fields or down the mines and other general labour work. That was hard work!

    Also, men nowadays are obsessed with their appearance and fashion styles. Our hair has to look nice, we have to smell nice, we have to have the nicest clothes, etc. Basically, we try to 'prettify' ourselves, and it's definitely something I can't imagine our forefathers worrying themselves about.

    Is it just the way society is today? Is it because we have more money to spend? I can imagine my grandfather saving up part of his wages for weeks/months just to buy a suit for a night out, but we tend to think nothing of buying clothes every week and going out every weekend.

    I suppose this subject could apply to women too. You have women today who would cry if they broke a nail, when their mothers/grandmothers had to toil all day doing the washing/cleaning/cooking and other such work.

    Are we all just wimps? (and I'm guilty of most of the things I listed)


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭bizmark


    well its just progress we dont need to work in the feilds or down the mines etc.....But i dont like all this metrosexuly **** that a minorty of guys are into its weird tbh


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭grumpytrousers


    dunno really....let's talk about something more interesting, like favourite Barbara Streisand movies, Sex and the City, or Shoes...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭Exit


    Originally posted by bizmark
    well its just progress we dont need to work in the feilds or down the mines etc.....But i dont like all this metrosexuly **** that a minorty of guys are into its weird tbh

    Ah, that's what I was alluding to in the 'prettyboy' paragraph. I couldn't remember the word for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭hedgetrimmer


    Part of this sense could be the loss of or changing definition of man. The Victorian Male/ Provider Male has been the benchmark for the definition of man for many many years. Now that is changing, as women move towards equality, and men no longer have a set societal definition. As this is a new sensation to the majority of men, they are seeking external definition elsewhere, and image has become something of increased importance. Instead of being seen as the provider, the hunter-gatherer, most men must now find female/ societal approval through other means.

    IMO, anyway


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 989 ✭✭✭MrNuked


    More men than women stare (not just glance) at their own reflection in shop windows. I've been observing this.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 867 ✭✭✭l3rian


    Part of this sense could be the loss of or changing definition of man. The Victorian Male/ Provider Male has been the benchmark for the definition of man for many many years. Now that is changing, as women move towards equality, and men no longer have a set societal definition. As this is a new sensation to the majority of men, they are seeking external definition elsewhere, and image has become something of increased importance. Instead of being seen as the provider, the hunter-gatherer, most men must now find female/ societal approval through other means.

    what a load of feminist bollox


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭grumpytrousers


    As this is a new sensation to the majority of men, they are seeking external definition elsewhere, and image has become something of increased importance. Instead of being seen as the provider, the hunter-gatherer, most men must now find female/ societal approval through other means.

    I think this should be in Pseuds Corner in Private Eye Magazine, alright


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭tba


    Originally posted by l3rian
    what a load of feminist bollox

    OH... be nice!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭bizmark


    lol

    /end spam


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 867 ✭✭✭l3rian


    OH... be nice!

    I am nice :D just had my lunch so im in a better mood

    Exit, sure there is loads of wimpy guys out there, but thats fine, I not going to even try to change their minds about what they do


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,238 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Personally, I'm of the opinion that the women's lib movement is directly responsible for the fact that more young men commit suicide than young women. By stripping men of their role as "provider", it left us rudderless as we finish school. Some of us handle this by throwing ourselves into sport to re-affirm our masculinity; others into the fantasyland of roleplay games and the net; others travel the world in an effort to "find themselves"; others prolong their college experiences to ridiculous lengths, refusing to grow up at all and most (in Ireland at least) hurl themselves into alcohol and substance abuse.

    Now, before someone jumps down my throat, I'm not saying that equality is a bad thing, just that it had some negative impacts on the male side of society. We men have been societally (and genetically?) programmed to be the hunter/gatherers. To go out and provide for our families. In today's world, we have to share this responsibility as there are VERY few women left in today's world who want to stay home and mind the kids and we're finding it very difficult to adjust. Girls, if you want to get a good handle on this, read "High Fidelity" by Nick Hornby, it's a good introduction to the lost feeling us men have in society nowadays...

    These metrosexuals are a direct result of this. Instead of trying to reaffirm their masculinity they've just given up on it and allowed themselves to become more feminine. To me, that's just a little bit ridiculous; to them, I'm sure my clinging to notions of masculinity is just as facile. Then again, the neanderthalic amongst us males would look down on me as being a priss for being able to express myself in this fashion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,181 ✭✭✭✭Jim


    Bugger to it.

    I don't think its just nowadays. Theres always been a certain amount of feminity in males. It only seems to appear though when the male in question has nothing left to do in their lives, and this seems like something they haven't experineced. Take ancient Greece as an example. The rich elite in that time period par took in sexual acts that would shock people even now. As well as this there was a significant amount of homosexuality in society, which was pretty open. It was a relationship that was tollerated. The interesting thing though is that it was more about class and power. Those relationships were seen as accecptable, as long as the person of higher class didn't play the role of the woman.

    Sure aren't we all female for 7 weeks or something in the womb?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭bizmark


    worse 7 weeks of my life :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 867 ✭✭✭l3rian


    In today's world, we have to share this responsibility as there are VERY few women left in today's world who want to stay home and mind the kids and we're finding it very difficult to adjust.

    speak for yourself sleepy, im doing fine


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭Lioness


    I'm of the opinion that the women's lib movement is directly responsible for the fact that more young men commit suicide than young women
    then
    I'm not saying that equality is a bad thing,
    :dunno:
    In today's world, we have to share this responsibility as there are VERY few women left in today's world who want to stay home and mind the kids and we're finding it very difficult to adjust
    what a selfish attitude. Women, for centuries have had to put up with inequality and the like, and its still going on today.
    Girls, if you want to get a good handle on this, read "High Fidelity" by Nick Hornby, it's a good introduction to the lost feeling us men have in society nowadays...
    hmm. the impression I got was that the main character was lonely and unsuccessful, and basically attributed all his failures due to the break down in his relationships with women. none of which were his fault of course. :rolleyes:
    By stripping men of their role as "provider", it left us rudderless as we finish school
    :confused: women have stripped men of nothing. We have simply asserted our rights as an equal member of society. It seems to me the meaning of equality and womens rights have evaded you...


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,441 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Yes, if you consider not being sexist or not believing you have a god given right to beat your wife as being less manly...


    Why not compare men working in cotton mills to raise their family to the 1800's when men worked the land to raise their family? Is this not less manly, grrrr...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭bizmark


    ffs :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Superman


    well i don't know in the old days, 16th century, men used to wear tights with pride!
    so we are a little more manly nowadays!

    I think the main wildcard in this question is that we can't really benchmark hjow manly things are cause women are far moe butch than they used to be!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭munkeehaven


    you really have to look around to see what is ''manly'' it means so many diff things to other cultures... ..you'd never see men here kiss each other on the lips or hold hands-- but in some places thats totally normal and not at all strange.i think it depends on your perspective-- how you grew up,what your parents said-- and made you do,etc. personally i dont particularly like the whole ''macho'' thing-- its just as bad as the ''bimbo'' image

    and anyway who defined what is to be ''masculine'' and ''feminine''??? why should we stick to rules that nobody wrote in stone?? lifes all about evolving and soon we will realise theres--- no point in sticking to the''stats quo'' just because its there....... when you ask yourself am i being too girly/boyish.......just say--- f uck it who cares???

    dont let whats expected of you-- define you


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭simu


    Men are less *macho*.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 867 ✭✭✭l3rian


    Men are less *macho*.
    macho_man.jpg

    ..you'd never see men here kiss each other on the lips or hold hands-- but in some places thats totally normal and not at all strange.
    nineteen420x300.jpg
    women have stripped men of nothing.
    chipendales.jpg
    when you ask yourself am i being too girly/boyish.......just say--- f uck it who cares???
    quimby.gif
    well i don't know in the old days, 16th century, men used to wear tights with pride!
    tights.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    arrrrggghhhh, would all the women just shut up a minute and take a look at yourselves!!! You are the cause.
    Men do what they have to, to bed good looking women. This makes them more important to their peers, and lets them feel successful. "Who cares how much I earn - I'm nobbing the best looking girl in town."
    If women demanded ignorant, unkept, smeally, ruffians - low and behold men would stop shaving, washing, and saying please.

    Equality me arse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Civilian_Target


    Originally posted by MrNuked
    More men than women stare (not just glance) at their own reflection in shop windows. I've been observing this.

    Of course! Shop windows provide the perfect refelction to admire the ass of the girl that just walked past without actually having to turn around. And you can be pretending to look into a shop.

    And yes, back to the topic, guys are less manly than they used to be on average, look at the statistics on sperm count decline.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    urrrghh


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭munkeehaven


    well at least now i know where NOT to pick up guys......:p :p

    einstein_albert3_med.jpg


    i wish.................***so cute so smart**


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Originally posted by Sleepy
    Some of us handle this by throwing ourselves ........ into the fantasyland of roleplay games and the net;

    Hey, that hurts... :(

    Stop bickering, the lot of you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 365 ✭✭rs


    Originally posted by Sleepy
    Personally, I'm of the opinion that the women's lib movement is directly responsible for the fact that more young men commit suicide than young women. By stripping men of their role as "provider", it left us rudderless as we finish school. Some of us handle this by throwing ourselves into sport to re-affirm our masculinity; others into the fantasyland of roleplay games and the net; others travel the world in an effort to "find themselves"; others prolong their college experiences to ridiculous lengths, refusing to grow up at all and most (in Ireland at least) hurl themselves into alcohol and substance abuse.

    But is it not a fact that more women attempt suicide than men. It's just that we are much better at it :)

    Life was simpler in some ways in previous generations because people back then did not have the aspirations we have. If you were from a rich family you had a bright future. If you were from a working class family, you could perhaps buy a house and feed the kids, but not much else. "Class" jumping was not very common. These days, all but the poorest and most deprived have a shot at a decent future. However, this has created massive competition.

    But now we can buy fancy cars, go on foreign holidays, buy nice clothes, eat as much as we want. Just not buy houses :)

    The more we get the more we want.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭fitz


    Well, to a certain extent, there was a huge societal demand for the "90s" man, who understood womens needs, showed their feelings etc.
    Now women have changed their minds, they don't want that any more, they want manly men.

    It's all very irrational and not in the least unexpected.

    Off-topic, on the whole equality thing: if a woman punches a man in the face and the man punches her back; that's reprehensible.

    Equality is a buzz word.
    Total male/female equality is neither desireable or attainable, people need to stop bloody using the word like a weapon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭Evil_Bilbo


    By stripping men of their role as "provider", it left us rudderless as we finish school. Some of us handle this by throwing .....themselves into alcohol and substance abuse.

    Please.

    You think thats the reason we all like to get f ucked up? You are really reaching with this one. I like to get mad out of it, but its not because I feel "rudderless" because I'm not the sole provider of the homestead (honestly, its not)

    On the topic though - I think men are getting wimpier without a doubt (god knows what the next generation are going to be like)

    My da is 60 today, and I reckon he'd still kick the ****e out meself and my 2 brothers (aged 24-32).

    He maintains that we dont know the meaning of the word "work", and what we refer to as looking / smelling good, having an image etc etc, he refers to as being "faggy".

    I reckon he's right.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭Emboss


    I blame the INTERWEB


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