Interrupting a Fight.

memphis

Hi all.

Just a quick one really. Being a student of a self defence (regardless of the art) when should or should you not break up a fight?

I was late home from work one night and went start into the night club for a few beers (bad day at the office ), and then went to chipper afterward. So I guess its safe to say I had been drinking but was sober enough and in full control of myself.

I say this guy starting into a local guy I know from school. He wasn't exactly a pal, just that he had been in my year. Anyway, to get to the point. This guy was throwing shapes at him, so I ran up grabbed him in a firm arm lock from behind and told him that I didn't wan't to see a fight start, or worst still se em being carted off in a cop car. He then swung a fist at me which I blocked, and subsequently swept him to the ground, and told him to f*ck off home. Surprisingly enough he did.

That was the end of the fight but the guy who had been in school with me didn't exactly thank me for sticking up for him. He started shouting abuse at me, telling me I should've minded my own business.

In a sense I guess he was right, as I didn't know the circumstances around their row, but being a TKD student I thought it was our responsibility to protect the innocent. And in fairness, he would have gotten a good battering going by the drunken state of him.

Opinions please!!!
Memphis

Runfree

tbh i think you done the right thing after all you stopped some one from being violent. ure pal from school probably would have ended up in hospital if thing would have gotten outta control.

This way no one got hurt well unless ya threw him to the ground hard and that arm lock was very extreme.

Saying this though if the cops would have seen it they might not have seen it as an act of self defense so they could try to arrest you if they saw you.

well thats my two cents of it.

RunFree

Unjaku

There's a time and a place to intervene personally to prevent someone suffering serious injury, but this doesn't sound like one of those times.

You'd had a few drinks, and saw what was for all intents and purposes an animated argument which was no business of yours, except for the fact that one of those involved was an aqquaintance. Without attempting to verbally intervene or de-escalate the situation, you go Seagal and put someone in an arm-lock. Unsurprisingly they then tried to hit you - you assaulted them.

For someone who didn't want to see a fight start, you did a good job of starting one.

The situation may have not have gotten physical had you let it develop on its own, or intervened verbally and then assessed whether or not it was necessary to get physical. Instead, you guaranteed that it went physical and actually became the aggressor, for all intents and purposes, by being the guy to come on with the arm-lock as an opening gambit.

The fact that the other guy was less than thrilled with your help should indicate something.

Studying martial arts (yes, even TKD) does not make you a police man, vigilante, or even obligate you to behave as a good samaritan. In future, should you feel a situation is serious enough to merit your getting involved, I suggest you consider the following :-

- If its serious enough to get physical over then its serious enough to call the police and let them do what they are trained to do and what they are paid to do.

Failing that-

- Attempt to de-escalate verbally first. If you go charging in like John Wayne you make a fight out of what could have been just an animated argument. This time you came out on top of that altercation, but next time you might not be so lucky. It would really suck to wake up with a stab wound after intervening in someone elses' argument in the chipper.

and lastly-

being a TKD student I thought it was our responsibility to protect the innocent

Who's to say in this incidence you were on the side of the angels? Maybe your friend from school was behaving like a bag of dicks and the other guy was well within his rights to be angry? Life is rarely black and white.

Unpossible

but being a TKD student I thought it was our responsibility to protect the innocent

this sends alarm bells ringing.
You are not a hero,
You are not a mythical samuri,
You are not Batman.

Unless your a gard (or on a mission with the army) its not your responsibility, its called selfdefense for a reason

Cake Fiend

Memphis, I don't mean any disrespect by this, but would I be right in guessing you have relatively little (under a couple of years) MA experience? A lot of newcomers to martial arts get this 'hero syndrome' - they get overconfident and get the wrong idea about both their own skill level and when it should be used. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Until you've been in, or even seen, a really messy fight, you can't weigh up the risks properly. There's way too much that can go wrong if you step in all gung-ho. To repeat what has already been said in this thread, a TKD dobok is not a superhero outfit, you have no obligation to 'protect the innocent' as you say, nor have you any business breaking up a scrap if you don't know the circumstances. Fair enough, you seem to have had the right intentions, but in the wrong place / under the wrong motives.

Anyway, I think what I've said has been better said above, this is just another 2c in the pot.

memphis

Thanks for the replies.

I've read through your replies and I get the impression from ye that ye believe I was in the wrong.

I went to stop a fight, ok I was being physical in doing so, but I still stopped the fight from occuring.

I stopped in with good intentions.

Am I still wrong?

Cake Fiend

In this circumstance, yes. Even though, luckily, it turned out relatively well. If it had been someone clearly unable to defend themselves being threatened, then it might be different. Then again, if you had been stabbed by the attacker, or if it turned out that the guy you knew had been egging the other guy on (minimum two sides per given story), or if both had turned on you for breaking up the fight, you might now think differently of it yourself.

Noone's questioning your morality here, you obviously thought you were doing the right thing. I'm sure we've all been in similar positions. But you could have been hurt, you could have gotten into legal trouble, and the bottom line is that two lads acting hard outside a chipper is not your responsibility.

memphis

Originally posted by Sico
Noone's questioning your morality here, you obviously thought you were doing the right thing. I'm sure we've all been in similar positions. But you could have been hurt, you could have gotten into legal trouble, and the bottom line is that two lads acting hard outside a chipper is not your responsibility.

Yes, i did think I was doing the right thing. But I guess you've just about summed it up, I could have very well have come outta the whole thing in a body bag if either of em had turned on me with a knife or whatever. These are the consequences I should have questioned, but i didn't.

Guess its fair to say that I was in the wrong. And 2 lads acting hard outside a chipper is NOT my responsibility.

I f*cked up, my mistake. Next time I'll be protecting myself and nobody else.

Thanks guys.

funky penguin

Originally posted by memphis
INext time I'll be protecting myself and nobody else.

Weeeelll, at least not someone you hardly know. Dont forget your friends. Just remember, diplomacy is the best way. Ater that......run.

Few weeks ago some underage drunk started on my friend...just shoved him. Next thing I know, about 30 16-17 year olds mill around the 10 of us, threatening us etc.

I dont care how much training you have, 3 to 1 are not fighting odds, so naturally, we try to talk them out of it, and a few sensable ones go home, but some muppet threw a punch and knocked a tooth outta one of my friend' mouth (he was trying to negotiate). Next thing you know, we're running away from 20 eegits to the guards station. Some scary stuff.

They stopped when they realised were we were going.

memphis

Sounds to me that you did the more sensible thing.... which is what i should've done.
Anyway. no point crying over spilt milk, whats done is done..... even if I did actually do the wrong thing.

Memphis

Naos

Originally posted by funky penguin
Weeeelll, at least not someone you hardly know. Dont forget your friends. Just remember, diplomacy is the best way. Ater that......run.

"Better to die fighting than to die tired"

Memphis, in that situation you were in the wrong but I see where your coming from. Obviously if the 'aggressor' of that argument started to beat the living **** out of the other lad, then you could intervene.

And to coin a phrase thats been used oh so many times in this particualar topic,

thats my 2 cents ..

funky penguin

Originally posted by Mear
"Better to die fighting than to die tired"

Ah, but...."You only live twice mister bond".

Naos

Originally posted by funky penguin
Ah, but...."You only live twice mister bond".

well then, die both ways and on your deathbed of the last death, decide which was better

*claps and brushes his hands in a 'done and done' manner*