'PI' type poker thread Fitz Freeroll

MadsL

I was going to post under a new username but can't be arsed tbh...don't take the following too personally...

A few 'worries' about the freeroll...and you can accuse me of being a blow-in if you like.

1. Dress code. I like the fact that the Fitz is very relaxed about it's Dress Code - BUT some of the freeroll lads are looking a bit rough...would it kill ya to put on a 'cleanish' shirt? Which brings me to my second point...

2. Whiff. There's a bit of a pong about the place on Thursdays, even before the first card has been dealt. Your best mate hasn't told you so I will... Good strong anti-perspirant works wonders, I recommend Mitchum rollon - unperfumed available too. Great stuff, "so effective you can even skip a day" - good to put on your palms too...;)

3. Manners. One or two people need reminding that it is bad form to stand at the roulette rail making loud comments about what a mug's game it is. Especially when the guy in front of you is throwing down fistfulls of black chips. Not appreciated by the management I'm sure. Also signing in and serving yourself a drink straightaway without having yet spent a cent in the place.

4. Tipping. I noticed that the table service was fairly crap last night. This is probably due to the fact almost no-one tips. C'mon, drop a euro and we all get better service...

My worries are that if this continues,

1. A strict dress code will be applied.
2. Regular 'high-rollers' will either complain or disappear
3. Wait staff will complain about how much work the freeroll is...

QED No more freerolls. the management are more likely to appease 'players' rather 'chancers'.

Any thoughts, anyone?

amp

I'm thinking that they probably don't give a crap as long a they keep making money. You might try the Merrion if you want a (minor) step up from the unwashed masses.

Marq

This is entirely directed at me, isn't it?

MadsL

Aww, crap...now I sound like a snob..

Don't get me wrong I'm just calling it as I see it. I mean the fitz makes what - zip, from the freeroll but get a good few bodies in. A few of them like me can't resist the table games while they are waiting and spend a few quid. Some, stay for the raked cash games, so they make there. But if they start losing big spenders then how long do you think the freeroll will last. I'm suprised they don't charge a registration fee and wouldn't be suprised to see one appear soon.

And Marq, yes.

Lafortezza

I think the fitz is happy to see the place full of bodies on a thursday, 50 last night, 90 the week before. It gets people interested in the other night's games, €20-game on weds for instance. And they probably do make a bit from the blackjack when people have a spare chip/fiver.

I noticed a touch of stink about the place too last night, but its students and people coming in straight after work so its too be expected, first time really noticeing though.

The tipping of the table service people is fairly poor too. I'm in the fitz quite alot so I usually will serve myself as I spend anything from €20 to €80 quid a week there, if not more sometimes. If I do order anything from the people coming around the tables then I'll tip a euro occasionally, everytime if I'm getting coffee or something.
Depends on the kind of person you are I suppose.

Don't think they'll bring in a dress code though, too many students are regulars at the thursday/sunday freerolls.

Bad Manners I've noticed a couple of times. I think its more about not understanding/knowing the poker ettiquette of the Fitz tournaments. If you compare the freeroll to teh Monday €110 game, there's a huge difference in the amount of table chatter, discussion of hands and the 'trash talk' thats become rife in the freerolls. Anyone who's played near DeV and Norman will know exactly what I'm talking about
Alot of newer/less experienced players see it as a fairly casual game, like a home game, and on occasion it is but there's times when I can see a regular/cash gamer/old skool fitz customer visibly fuming at a newer players attitude at the table.

Its horses for courses though. The Fitz won't run the freeroll if its not worth their while, and the freeroll regulars won't play if there's registration or it gets more strict. Tis a balance of the two.

amp

I want to touch your Wang.

DeVore

1+2. Agree on the personal hygiene / dress code though a clean t-shirt and a pair of jeans/slacsk should be fine imho.

3. Manners. In the freerolls I basically dont give too hoots about proper play/conduct. I dont mean that I'm rude on purpose or rude at *all* imho but I'm nowhere near as serious as I am in the 20-in and the bigger games. I go for fun and part of the fun (a large part of it) is the banter. If that really really bothers others then you can tell them from me that I've heard the reach-back left-twist is considered the most effective panty-unwadding technique.
I'd hate to see the place without the likes of Joe and Norman and a few of the others...

4. Tipping. I tip a euro if I get a drink and I have a euro spare. If I dont have a euro spare, I dont and I dont feel bad about it. I dropped 60 notes there last night in a heart beat, if they arent getting paid properly they should negotiate a better deal with the management. Sorry to sound like Mr Pink from Resevoir Dogs but if you put something in front of me to sign saying they should get more pay, I'll sign it. But I'm not going to start paying 1 euro for a every glass of coke every time. Tip once or twice a night and I'm sure the staff would be happy.

DeV.

Hyzepher

Originally posted by DeVore
Sorry to sound like Mr Pink from Resevoir Dogs

It's not that you sound like him - it's that you are Mr. Pink. Pink in everyway and hey we love you for it. Umm pink it's so nice - what are you doing later - its not for me its for my mate Henbane - he finds you cute

Hyzepher

henbane

Originally posted by Hyzepher
its not for me its for my mate Henbane - he finds you cute

I got better taste than that. I demand you be banned for personal abuse.

MadsL

^
banter never bothers me...I fact I enjoyed last night enormously because of it..

On the tipping, yeah a couple of tips is just fine, but I used to work in hospitality and getting stiffed all night is nasty*, especially when the drinks are free. The culture just isn't here I guess, but I see it as good karma. Like tipping the dealer when you win...

..*(mmm...stiffed all night...)

sirchancealot

Dont worry about someone having a free coke making the Fitz get rid of the Thursday tourney,The idea behind it is to get enough people who dont want to pay €270 into the tournament so as to make it attractive to UK and Ireland based bigger game players.They want the end of month tourney to be a real big draw player wise.

The tipping thing is just down to manners really,if you can live with yourself when youve just got a free coke/coffee and not tipped then fair balls to you.If you choose to have loads of drinks/service then you should be prepared to tip,but if you havnt got any change then so be it,though serial abusers should maybe think about a change. The Tipping lark for the winners of tourneys was something I knew nothing about until recently so was guilty through ignorance of not having tipped the dealers a few times.

Finally if the banter at the table whether it be rude or funny bothers you then you should dump your chips and go home because if you get emotionally involved or put off your game by it then you should not be there.

As I am sure you ll notice this is my first post here so I do not mean to ruffle any feathers,none of this is directed to any specific reply its just my 2cents.

Marq

And Marq, yes.

thought so,

I tip when I have money in my pocket, whenever I can, but like DeV there's no way I'll feel I have to tip for every drink. About getting a drink before I've spent a cent: What's the issue? The drinks are free, they're there for our convenience, and I'm there to spend money whenever I head in. I'm not there to sponge of the fitz and get loaded on coke, I'm playing poker, filling the fitz's coiffers because of it, and appreciating the drinks they generously give me. I don't see what the problem is with getting a drink to have while waiting around before the tournie starts - don't know what you're getting at here.

By the way, my sincerest apologies Madsl, but I can't put a name to a face - lots of people were shy of their blinds last night!

mewso

Yeah I'm confused as to how getting a drink straight off might be offensive in some way. I dont want to waste floor staff's time getting me a drink of water etc. I have tipped them for these tasks but I'm not going to tipp them a euro all night for water. Better to get the drink myself and not spend a tenner on free drinks.

Waylander

4. Tipping. I noticed that the table service was fairly crap last night. This is probably due to the fact almost no-one tips. C'mon, drop a euro and we all get better service...

Have you not got that a bit mixed up. A tip is meant to be a reward for a service provided that was better then a certain standard. I am not going ot tip someone in the hopes that they lift their service standard as a result of it. If table service is crap, I would not tip them at all!

PHB

1.
It would kill me to put on a shirt, I couldn't stand looking like that, all old and boring. Who wants to look clean, thats just plain old boring, my rugged good looks got me where I am today!

2. Whiff. There's a bit of a pong about the place on Thursdays, even before the first card has been dealt. Your best mate hasn't told you so I will... Good strong anti-perspirant works wonders, I recommend Mitchum rollon - unperfumed available too. Great stuff, "so effective you can even skip a day" - good to put on your palms too...

I've never noticed the smell, maybe you just can't differentiate between yourself and the rest of the group. Anyway, dontcha know riftraft always smell funny?

3.
Why the **** not?!
Surely if you're a really nice person you could go up to the guy and teach him that its really bad odds and that if he wants to gamble he should go play blackjack where he has a better chance of winning!
I'd say that you're rude for not telling people!
Shame on you!

As for getting yourself a free drink, that whole 2 cent a glass it costs them for the coke must really be hitting into them! Especialy after you drop 20 quid on blackjack, yeah I'd say they are incredibly pissed off!

4.
Tipping is a big personal thing that some people do and some people don't. I wouldn't really tip there because I don't personally like being waited on and would rather get the drink myself. That said if you really feel guilty about it perhaps you should tip more to compensate.
Also you'll find that waitress are smart people and they will give better service to the people who tip, i.e. if you give a tip of a fiver one time, the waitress will be quick to serve you again.
Tipping is not a collective action, its individual!


I suggest you start up your own casino, strictly black tie, obviously no hookers or blackjack, thats for the common folk.
I recommend the game of Omaho Hi/Lo, that way no rift raft can come in and ruin your game since they won't understand it.

MadsL

Getting a drink straight off is not really the issue. Neither is water. But by helping yourself you are not only automatically stiffing the wait staff of a tip, but also raising the question in the mind of the management "how many wait staff do I really need?"

I wonder how much they make an hour versus tips?

I do help myself when it is mad busy (on the break) but when it is quiet, surely it is more respectful to allow them to do their job? You wouldn't dream of helping yourself to chips, why not afford the floor staff the same respect?

sirchancealot - welcome to boards...I don't think the Coke will bankrupt them (I know how much those machines cost per serving ) but I felt a reminder about the manners was in order...

Marq...black shirt...seat 1 table 2...

MadsL

PHB, Calm down...I said it wasn't personal. But if you want to mix it up...

1. 'Who wants to look clean, thats just plain old boring...'
Sound's like something a 12 year old would whine..

2. "dontcha know riftraft always smell funny?"
It's 'riff-raff' and if you can't smell it...

3. "teach him that its really bad odds"
And he'll point at the stack he's just won and tell you to go fúck yourself...or have his girlfriend beat you up.

4. "Tipping is not a collective action, its individual!"
I'm reminding people that tipping doesn't only happen in the movies that's all...jesus, shoot me... "you'll find that waitress are smart people and they will give better service to the people who tip" And you'll find that they think getting stiffed for a tip makes you an assh0le.

PHB

what the hell are you on about?

They don't make their money off tips from the freeroll, if they did they wouldn't work there!
They make their money off the steady wage and the big tips off big gamblers!

You're analgy is completely flawed, it might have some relevance if the drinks were in the kitcehn where we aren't allowed go but they aren't.


If you really want to be blunt and look at what is in their best interests, you would get it yourself and let them wait at the blackjack table, where they can make more money.

How is it more respectful to allow them to do their jobs? Thats just stupid.
Their jobs are also probably to clean up spills, however if I spilt something I know I would clean it up, is that being disrespectful to them? No its not, stop being silly!

MadsL

PHB, do what the hell you like. I said this wasn't a personal attack at anyone, just a few observations. You clearly have never worked in a job where tips are a part of your wages - if you had you would probably have a different attitude. Which would you prefer - 100x1 euro tips from small time gambers during the night, or 6x5 euro tips from 'big gamblers' - ie 'someone else'?

Marq

This is all getting quite heated, careful now or Hyzepher might actually have to lay down the law.

While I can see where Madsl is coming from for the most part,

a) I don't think any of the staff in the fitz, particularly the management, consider any of these things a problem. If they felt that the free-roll wasn't worth their while, they wouldn't run it, simple as that. If the waitresses felt that everyone should be tipping like crazy, they'd either withdraw their services to those that don't tip, or get another job.

b) [and this is more important] - does the discussion on this thread really have any point to it? Madsl's complaints may be about certain people in boards, or they may be more general (tbh I think that they apply more generally), but I don't think that the comments made here are actually going to change how people act in the Fitz and I don't think they should. The fitz itself certainly doesn't show any signs that it's fed up with the free-roll, I just can't see where this speculation on what might happen is actually going.

This isn't a criticism of Madsl (although best that yourself and PHB don't keep discussing it, looks like it could revert to name-callings). I simply think that people have different ideas about what a card club should be like, how a casino atmosphere should be approached, etc, and those ideas are naturally going to conflict. There's nothing anyone can do if their perception of what the free-roll on thursdays in the fitz should be like is different from someone else's, just agree to disagree.

Even if everyone that plays in the fitz that reads this forum were to change their ways, there would still be others who don't read or post here that would still be guilty of the things that Madsl is unhappy about.

I'm extremely sorry if this comes across in any way snide or confrontational, I only mean for it to hopefully have a little bit of perspective.

Marq

MadsL

^^^
what he said...

I'm not going to argue. Hell, if it is anything like my card playing I'll lose...:D

Just making a few comments tbh.

Davey Devil

MadsL is you don't like it at The Fitz don't go, it's as simple as that. It's not your place to come on here and instruct people what they can and can't do.

MadsL

It's not your place to come on here and instruct people what they can and can't do.

Where did I do that? Did you miss the 'don't take this personally' bit?

I just listed a few things that I consider to be bad-mannered and asked for comments. This is a discussion board ffs. If I post topics that are slightly 'controversial' it is to stimulate discussion. Sorry, I'll get back to posting bad beat stories.

Davey Devil

If you didn't want people to clean up their acts why did you post your original comments? Surely that was the purpose of the post, was for people to take it on board and listen to your suggestions. Ok, instruct wasn't the right word, more of a gentle nudge.

Why does it bother you that people are scruffy? I always wear a shirt and shoes but I couldn't give a crap if people smell or generally look and smell like ****e. That's their own business as is their choice to tip or not. Look after yourself and stop worrying about other people, maybe you might get a bit better at poker.

Marq

Wow, a 'contraversial' thread on the Poker Forum. Didn't think it was possible. I go one day without deoderant and my whole world goes crazy.

MadsL

You really are taking this personally aren't you...a bit of linkage for you
http://www.fitzwilliamcardclub.com/rules.htm

Am I wrong to give a 'nudge' when the place gets stinky? Would you rather I complain to the management?

All I'm really saying then is respect yourself, respect other players (even if you consider them mugs) and respect the staff.

Look after yourself and stop worrying about other people

Nice attitude.

Hyzepher

I knew the inclusion of PI was like a red rag to a bull.

Unlike all the 'inferior' forums here on boards, the poker forum knows when to stop something before it gets out of hand. I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy but I am not allowing anymore agressiveness here. Please take it that everyone has an opinion and no amount of heated exchange is going to change that.

Be civil in the poker forum - it is like a calm lake in the midst of a raging ocean - a santuary where like minded people come to take about poker - there is enough bitch talking at the tables.

btw - I knew giving MrP that ban yesterday was going to start something.

Hyzepher

MadsL

there is enough bitch talking at the tables

i disagree!!!!!...which brings me to my next point...waffle..waffle

OK, consider me spanked..:D

/mutter...knew I should have signed as on a new user...mutter mutter

DeVore

alright alright, chalm down chalm down

1. This is a discussion forum. We discuss things.

2. I think Madsl was kidding when he said it was aimed at you Marq.

3. I think Marq is kidding when he keeps taking it personally.

4. I hope they are, if not they should be.

5. Madsl's points are valid. You might not agree with them. Thats cool too.

6. I think this has been a very worthwhile thread though everyone needs to take a chill pill.

DeV.

Marq

2, 3 and 4 all correct DeV. (good read)

Don't worry, i never thought any of that was aimed at me, and I ain't got any beef with MadsL either. I don't necessarily agree, but I don't think there's any reason for anyone to get hot-headed or upset about it.

krattapopov

Originally posted by MadsL

All I'm really saying then is respect yourself, respect other players (even if you consider them mugs) and respect the staff.

right everyone you heard it, behave yourselves!! no more white socks ok :rolleyes:

cormie

I just hope I don't offend anyone if I poop my pants with the stress in the €270 tourny next week!

mewso

Raising the tone there Cormie?
We should be able to discuss things without exploding if somebody misunderstands a point made etc. It seems that is what happened here. Calmly point someone in the right direction without minor expletives that will not aid the explanation or counter-arguement.
I personally am happy with the fitz. We may have an image of casinos but the reality is that they are full of a huge variety of people and poker deffinately attracts a strange mixture. Companies that open casinos know this and it's part of the casino life. The black tie image is not reality and while it's nice to be mannerly and I attempt to be so as often as possible I am not prepared to point out smelly people, non-tippers etc. Not my job.
The points made in the topic are valid enough. If anyone takes it on board then all the better for us in general but I haven't noticed any general decline myself. I get a drink myself often enough so I responded to that point. I don't think I am doing anything wrong or consigning people to unemploymentand I do tip from time to time. I 'aint rich and I don't think even waiting staff expect continual tips from people.
As to smelliness, I honestly hadn't noticed myself. I think I dress ok but I really really don't care how someone else dresses.

melachi

and I who shaved my mohawk off and bought some clothes instead of that large bin bag i've always worn..
TSK, all for nothing!