Free to view on Astra1 - what do I need and where is the best place to get it from

TheDuke

Hi guys,

I'm new to all of satelite stuff. I only just got in Sky Digital which kicked off my curiosity.

I would like to get a bunch of German free to view programs on Astra1 (I think its on Astra1c) and I have already worked out that I can't get them via the Sky setup as these run on analog satelites.

See for details: http://www.selkirkshire.demon.co.uk/analoguesat/astra1_19e.html

So my question is:
a) can I re-use the Sky dish
b) if not what size dish would be best 60-80 and where would be the best place to get one
c) with a bigger dish can I get all Astra1 satelites (or at least more than one)
d) what sort of analog reciever do I need and where would be the best place to get one

Many thanks in advance for you help,

The Duke : ))

PK - the king

I don't think anyone deals analogue satellite boxes in England or Ireland anymore as there are only a handful of english channels among the thousands of digital ones. You should look out for the Lidl cheap analogue offers that they do every so often. An 80cm dish would probably do - a sky minidish would be probably too small to give good reception.

You should probably ask Tony. He's the expert on the matter.

SRB

All the channels you're after are also in Digital at 19.2, indeed you'll find various regional variations there too. (WDR Münster for example)
You can get a new Free To View box for about 90 euros, dishes aren't expensive and it's not that hard to install a fixed dish. Or just buy an old analogue set up at a car boot sale.

Tony

an 80cm dish and a free to air digital decoder is your best bet, have a look at the sticky thread which shows shops and websites which sell the gear you need, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155714

Tony

Mike 1972

If you already have a Sky digibox you dont need an additional FTA box

Just get a second dish and LNB (60cm is fine) pointed at 19.2E and use the "add channels" process to add on all the German stuff http://www.satcodx2.com/0192/uke/

Maplin do a little manual switch that enables you to switch between Satellites

My own setup consists of an 80cm dish and three LNB's (13E 19E and 28.5E) connected to a Panasinic Digibox with P2 Solus (BBC) Card

TheDuke

many thanks guys

this is allot of info... I'll need to go away and digest all this and will probably be back with more q's.

thanks again,

The Duke : ))

btw, I never got the auto update email notification to this thread - is there a problem?

TheDuke

ok, I've digested...

*Mike 1972/ SRB*
Q1: where can I get these German channels (ARD, ZDF, etc) on digital Sattelite as I could not find any trace?
Q2: If they are on digital what you are saying is that I just need another dish to point at the 'other' sattelite - any idea what the other sattelite is?
Q3: I have a Panasonic Digitbox - I prosume that'll do the trick (u mentioned Maplin?

Tony, any wisdom on the above...


many thanks for your help - it's really tricky to get advice on this topic - strange so few know their way arround this stuff (including the Sky Technical Team :rolleyes: )

The Duke : ))

btw, this may be of interrest - http://www.selkirkshire.demon.co.uk/analoguesat/comparison1.html

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by TheDuke
*Mike 1972/ SRB*
Q1: where can I get these German channels (ARD, ZDF, etc) on digital Sattelite as I could not find any trace?
Q2: If they are on digital what you are saying is that I just need another dish to point at the 'other' sattelite - any idea what the other sattelite is?
Q3: I have a Panasonic Digitbox - I prosume that'll do the trick (u mentioned Maplin?

1. Astra 1 @ 19.2 dgrees east
2. as above
3. will work but through other channels, another box would be ideal

Tony

Originally posted by TheDuke
ok, I've digested...

*Mike 1972/ SRB*
Q1: where can I get these German channels (ARD, ZDF, etc) on digital Sattelite as I could not find any trace?
Q2: If they are on digital what you are saying is that I just need another dish to point at the 'other' sattelite - any idea what the other sattelite is?
Q3: I have a Panasonic Digitbox - I prosume that'll do the trick (u mentioned Maplin?

Tony, any wisdom on the above...


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German channels are all on Astra 1 satellite 19 degrees east of south.

You could use the digibox but then you would have to buy a manual switch to change between the two dishes. It really depnds on your budget but if it were me i'd buy a cheap FTA receiver an 80cm dish and a two lnb bracket to view both satellites, the advantage is you could record one satellite while viewing the other.

Hope this helps

Tony

Originally posted by TheDuke



many thanks for your help - it's really tricky to get advice on this topic - strange so few know their way arround this stuff (including the Sky Technical Team :rolleyes: )

Why would you expect sky to help with this, understandably they are only interested in you watching sky not other services?

Tony

TheDuke

excellent stuff!

I'm going to follow up on the swtich thing as well as the sepperate FTA option to get a price comparision.

I don't think I'll be too bothered about the manual switch, will all depend on the total cost.

German channels are all on Astra 1 satellite 19 degrees east of south

Which Astra is that, Atra1g I prosume - or does it even matter?

Sorry to be so slow but what I find quite confusing is that Astra1 is actually a whole set of sattelites (Sky being on 1d) so there's a bunch of analog and digital in the same area.

Why would you expect sky to help with this

As for Sky, Tony, it's just that they couldn't even help me with figuring out their own setup... they didn't even know what satelite it was on... i.e. Astra1.


Again, excellent help,

The Duke : ))

TheDuke

here's just a quick questions - would something like this do the trick?

80cm dish and Monoblock LNB Channel Master 80cm mesh dish plus monoblock LNB.
A digital receiver with disecq switching is required for this function.

Is there anything in particular I need to know about LNB's?

guys, I am starting to feel back about hammering out so many questions - but I am really making some major progress here!

ShaneOC

No problem asking questions. That's what the boards are for. (well that and loads of innane drivel).

As far as I know there are very few if any Sky channels broadcasting at the Astra 1 position - 19° (except for Sky News).

It does not make a difference if the channel is on Astra 1a...Astra1g as they are all located in the same(ish) position.

Sky digital is broadcast at 28° and again the channels are spread over a number of satellites known as Astra 2A to Astra 2D.

There is also 1 or more Eurobird satellites located at 28.5° which is close enough to be picked up by Sky digital dishes. Some of the channels available through Sky digital are broadcast from this satellite.

Darren

If you've got a bit of spare cash why not take the plunge and get a half decent motorised system.

I have a Sammy DSR9500 viaci with a 1.1M motorised dish. You could get one for about 400 euros, awesome setup.

TheDuke

ok guys - I am ready to take the test :cool:

I will look towards getting a dish of 80cm (or so) which can hold more than one NLB so that I can point it at Astra 1, Astra 2 and Hotbird (and replace the existing Sky one).

The 2-3 NLB will go via a diseq 4 way switch so that I don't need to run a new cable allong the gable but can use the existing one and feed it into one digibox.

My Panasonic TU-DSB50 (presently used for Sky) can be used to switch between the NLB's (no real idea how as to how exactly the diseq commands are going to be sent or whether my present unit will support diseq 1.x - still a little work to do here).

So the ideal setup could be as follows:
>>> Wave Frontier T55 Multi satellite dish - €99
>>> LNB MTI.6db Blue Line digital/universal X 2 = €50
>>> Diseq 4 way switch by Johannson €25
>>> Installation €100

Total approx. €250.

The above is based on the fact that I just don't like loads of boxes and dishes - I like it neat and compact.

Ok, what are the marks out of 10?

The Duke : ))

Darren

Can the symbol rate on that box change to 6111 rather than just 22000 and 27500?? If not , could be a problem.

To see what channels are out there have a look at www.lyngsat.com

TheDuke

thanks Darren - it doesn't support 6111

but I checked the link you gave me and it didn't seem to matter - but then I still need to digest all the requency ,etc stuff..

Darren

@TheDuke - You are right, none of the channels on Astra 19 or Hotbird seem to use a symbol rate other than 22000 or 27500. Hispasat and Thor tend to be a bit more varied with their symbol rates but then your are not looking at these.

I spent quite a bit of time and money trying to add more satellites to my SKY system but what I found was the more channels I got, the more I wanted. It was then that I started hitting some serious technical limitations with the SKY digibox. These were, not being able to vary the symbol rate, not being able to add additional CAMS, losing all the channels I added whenever sky updated the box. In the end I went out and bought a proper motorised system. This system gives me loads of movies in English, Free to Air Premiership footie on Saturdays on TV Sport Ro on Sirius 5e. In fact I have now more than saved the cost of my system through not having to have a sky sports sub. Last point I am not hacking TV sport RO, it is FTA so I don't think this post breaks the rules.

TheDuke

but what I found was the more channels I got, the more I wanted

sounds just like me

I am not too mad about the motorised option - the Wave Frontier T55 Multi satellite dish is supposed to give a +/- 25 degeree scope only that you need to fit a bunch of NLB's (this one can take upt to 16 but I think 4 should do the trick. Again, it would be great for some feeback from someone who has tried it.

One last question Darren - I've worked through the frequency listing and there are a few bits I don't understand.

http://www.lyngsat.com/astra1h.html

Looking at the list "ARD Digital" is 27500 3/4 (and obviously requires a decryption card) but "Das Erste" is 28106 (but I can only set 27500 and 22000 on my Panasonic - is that a problem or am I reading something wrong?

Many thanks for all the help - it's really comming together now.

The Duke : ))

Tony

The digibox does not support diseq thats why manual switch was proposed

Originally posted by TheDuke


My Panasonic TU-DSB50 (presently used for Sky) can be used to switch between the NLB's (no real idea how as to how exactly the diseq commands are going to be sent or whether my present unit will support diseq 1.x - still a little work to do here).





The Duke : ))

maisflocke

Originally posted by TheDuke

The 2-3 NLB will go via a diseq 4 way switch so that I don't need to run a new cable allong the gable but can use the existing one and feed it into one digibox.

My Panasonic TU-DSB50 (presently used for Sky) can be used to switch between the NLB's (no real idea how as to how exactly the diseq commands are going to be sent or whether my present unit will support diseq 1.x - still a little work to do here).


Ok, what are the marks out of 10?

3 out of 10.

You basically know where you want to go, but still got your sums wrong.
Sky Dodgyboxes do not support Diseqc!

Back to the Drawing board.



Try using a twin (or quad) LNB for 28°
One direct output to the dodgybox, one output to diseqc switch.

Single LNB for 19° output to diseqc switch.
Diseqc switch output on second seperate line to a seperate FTA box.

Result,

SkyDigital on Direct line from 28°.
Astra 19° & 28° FTA on Diseqc line.

Two lines, two boxes. there is no way around it if you want SkyDigital & Astra 19°

good luck.

maisflocke

Originally posted by TheDuke


Looking at the list "ARD Digital" is 27500 3/4 (and obviously requires a decryption card) but "Das Erste" is 28106 (but I can only set 27500 and 22000 on my Panasonic - is that a problem or am I reading something wrong?

The Duke : ))

ARD Digital is FTA - no card required.

28106 represents the SID setting, not the Symbol rate.
the ARD Digital symbol rate for the whole transponder is 27500

Darren

maisflocke is dead right.

Pids and Sids are different thing entirely, for exampe a lot of signals carry multiple Audio Pids with each pid maybe having a different language or maybe as the BBC sometimes does, different commentary at a sporting event. It is NOT possible to manually change pids on a SKY digibox.

If I was you I would join www.satdudez.com. Go on there, introduce yourself, read the rules and then tell the people on there what you are after. There is some very, very knowledgable people on that site who will help you out.

Darren

TheDuke

3 out of 10

uhhch... good job you didn't test me on my driving licence ... I would have never passed

Two lines, two boxes. there is no way around it if you want SkyDigital & Astra 19°

had to draw it out on a piece of paper and now that I know how restrictive the present Sky DodgyBox is it all makes sense... bloody useless thing....

So in reality I could even consider chucking the DigiBox and getting a "propper" pay tv settop box - correct?

Pids and Sids are different thing entirely, for exampe a lot of signals carry multiple Audio Pids....

How informative Darren, so a pid is not a sid... ...

Btw, let me know what you think of this one... http://www.multilnbdish.com/

The Duke : ))

Darren

I meant a SID is a type of PID and these are entirely different to Symbol rate.

Don't get rid of the SKY box as there is no commercially avaialble NDS CAM (NDS aka videoguard is sky's encryption method) which means you cannot put your SKY card in a 'proper' didgital satellite receiver as it will not understand the card (this is also one of the reasons why SKY is so secure).

TheDuke

ahhhhh... so the Sky Digibox is priopriatory technology - and susequently makes it all the more challenging for any hackers...

As for the PID/SIDS, I need more time to digest this one.

Thanks a mill guys - I now know what I need!

The Duke : ))

kramlq

Hi,

Just about all german stations are receivable on a digibox if the dish is pointed at the right satellite:
- 19e is the place where germans point their dishes
- Some of the main ones are duplicated at 13e along with a lot of other stuff (mainly for the Swiss I think)
- Many german cable channels are on 23e but these are mostly encrypted.
When the dish is pointed at a particular 'angle', it will pick up any transmissions it can from any satellites stationed at that point in the orbital belt. The only german channels on 19e that are encrypted are those of the German Premiere Package, which is mostly the german equivalent of Sky Movies and Sky Sports and the Austrian national broadcaster ORF.

If you are only going to look at the occasional program on german tv (sport etc.) then the digibox will do, otherwise I would say go for a proper FTA box as the digibox has a lot of limitations - it isn't in Sky's interest to make it easy to receive channels you don't have to pay for with hardware they have given you for free!
Certainly LNB switching is a headache with sky's box. A FTA box doesn't cost that much. For the equivalent of a few months sky subscription you could get lots of free tv channels (for years into the future) on a FTA box.

As for the ability to legally view Sky NDS encrypted channels on hardware not provided to you by Sky/NDS - don't hold your breath!

Also, looking at the cost of a multi-LNB system quoted, I say motorised is better value. Switching a dish between 13e/19e only takes about five seconds, and you can also view stuff on lots of other obscure satellites (e.g. there is a channel on SESAT 36e that often has english progs) You tend not to check these sats out much unless you have a motorised setup. You can get a DiSEqC motor for €65 including postage, and they aren't much more difficult to set up than a monoblock or fixed dish if you get a receiver with USALS/GotoX/DiSEqC 1.3 support.

You really dont need to know what PID's/SID's etc mean. They are just numbers that you may in certain cases want to give your receiver to find a particular service. It is rare you need to know about them unless you are doing more advanced stuff.
Symbol rate is the rate at which symbols of information are sent in the stream. Symbols being binary bits or whatever. A TV signal is digitised by an encoder into a stream of 0's/1's, then several of these bit streams (from several TV/Radio/Data services) are multiplexed (mixed but in an organised way) into a single stream of bits that are sent via the satellite on a particular frequency to your satellite box. The satellite box recieves the stream of bits sent on that frequency, tries to fix/handle any errors (which is what FEC is all about), breaks the incoming stream down into discrete blocks, and uses PIDs (packet identifiers) and such like to identify the blocks that pertain to the TV/radio service you want to use. It then reassembles the appropriate blocks of bits into the same stream originally sent out by the TV or Radio service. Thats my explaination anyway!

TheDuke

kramlq - thanks a mill for the lengthy reply...

I've made sense of it all now... thanks to everyones help.... considering I hadn't a clue on Sunday that's not bad going....

I'm thinking of running with Sky till the contract is up and then going FTA only... now that I have started looking into it there is so much out there I won't get the time to watch it all anyhow.

The Duke : ))