Insurance disc/sticker?

PBC_1966

I saw a comment in another thread about an "insurance disc."

Do I take it from this that Irish insurance companies supply you with some sort of disc or sticker which you are required to display on the windshield along with the tax disc?

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Yes

mike65

Cars have to display tax, insurance and NCT/MOT disk once tested for the first time.

Mike.

PBC_1966

Thanks. There's a "what if..." question that pops into my mind though.

What if you drive more than one car on the same policy? For example if you were to drive a car belonging to someone else which doesn't have its own insurance policy, are you expected to take your own insurance disc with you and display it in the car you're driving?

seamus

Originally posted by PBC_1966
Thanks. There's a "what if..." question that pops into my mind though.

What if you drive more than one car on the same policy? For example if you were to drive a car belonging to someone else which doesn't have its own insurance policy, are you expected to take your own insurance disc with you and display it in the car you're driving?

I'm not sure, but you'll either have that car insured under a separate policy or you'll be given a separate disc. The disc legally has to contain particulars of the insured vehicle, so it'd be no use in another car.

Irish insurance is ****ed up. I'm not even sure if anyone will allow someone to be insured on two cars with the one policy.

[Edit:
Whoops, misunderstood slightly. TBH, I'm not sure of the legalities. You cannot use the insurance disc for one car in another one, but to bring a car on the road, it must have an insurance disc. This would infer that if you want to drive someone else's car under your own policy, it also needs to be insured by someone else.
Which sounds a bit ridiculous. Anyone know?

ChipZilla

My policy says I'm covered on somebody else's car as long as I have their permission to drive it. Surely that means that all I would need is my policy document if i got pulled over?

the evil belly

afaik you need a seperate disk for each car. as for driving other cars on your own insurance the car already displays a valid disk(one hopes so anyway) and so you only need your own details in the event of an accident. i've transferred my insurace onto rental cars or friends cars and was never told by any insurance company to carry my details. if it comes to it in an accident call a cop and explain the situation. you ain't breaking the law.

seamus

Originally posted by the evil belly
afaik you need a seperate disk for each car. as for driving other cars on your own insurance the car already displays a valid disk(one hopes so anyway) and so you only need your own details in the event of an accident.

Yeah, but does this mean that in order to drive someone else's car, it has to be insured by someone else, otherwise the Gardai can legally fine you for non-display of an insurance disc? That sounds a bit ridiculous, i.e. why can't you drive someone else's car when they're not insured, e.g. to drive it from the dealers forecourt to their home?

PBC_1966

Yep, that's the kind of thing I had in mind. Every policy I've ever had states that I'm covered to drive a car belonging to anyone else with their permission.

There's nothing to say that there needs to be a policy naming the vehicle in question (I would assume this is similar in Ireland?), so if a friend had a car which was stilled taxed but on which his own insurance had expired, I would be legally covered to drive it. I've actually done this several times.

In fact, as British policies always cover driving in Ireland as well, that could prove an interesting test. If I drove an Irish-registered car within the RoI, on my U.K. insurance, but there was no Irish policy and insurance sticker on the vehicle, then presumably if I were stopped by the Garda the production of my British certificate would satisfy them?

Gurgle

Check the fine print carefully.
I believe the 'driving other cars' clause requires that the car you are driving is also insured by its owner.

ChipZilla

According to:

http://www.motornet.ie/moneymatters/insurance/whyinsure.asp

Driving without displaying an insurance disc will not incur penalty points because this is not an issue which will directly affect the safety of you or other drivers on the road.

And http://www.autofinder.ie/Equote_auto/faqs.asp says:

Q. What is DOC?
A. DOC means Driving Other Cars. Where this is granted on a policy it allows the policy holder to drive another private car that is not owned, or hired to, him/her. Some underwriters exclude spouse's and employer's vehicles. If DOC has been granted, the policy holder is only covered by third party while driving these vehicles.

Hmm, wonder if sellotaping your policy document to the windscreen of a borrowed car would qualify as an insurance disc?

seamus

Originally posted by PBC_1966
In fact, as British policies always cover driving in Ireland as well, that could prove an interesting test. If I drove an Irish-registered car within the RoI, on my U.K. insurance, but there was no Irish policy and insurance sticker on the vehicle, then presumably if I were stopped by the Garda the production of my British certificate would satisfy them?

This is the conundrum. Most Irish drivers would also be covered by their insurance to drive anyone else's car. However, under Irish law, it's illegal to drive a car in a public place without displaying an insurace disc (afaik). So you may still be fined for non-display.

Hmm, wonder if sellotaping your policy document to the windscreen of a borrowed car would qualify as an insurance disc?

Actually, that's something I thought of. I guess it would count, since it doesn't say you need to display a disc specifically, rather proof of insurance...

PBC_1966

But British insurance companies don't issue insurance discs. How can you display something you don't have? Typical legal nonsense! :rolleyes:

Edit:
Ah, posted too quick and missed that last point. So maybe if I stuck my U.K. insurance certificate to the windshield it would be acceptable?

Driving without displaying an insurance disc will not incur penalty points because this is not an issue which will directly affect the safety of you or other drivers on the road.

I'd say that driving with no insurance doesn't directly affect the safety of other drivers either. Has being in possession of a bit of paper confirming that you have insurance ever prevented an accident?

ChipZilla

Originally posted by seamus
This is the conundrum. Most Irish drivers would also be covered by their insurance to drive anyone else's car. However, under Irish law, it's illegal to drive a car in a public place without displaying an insurace disc (afaik). So you may still be fined for non-display.

I was pulled for speeding (7mph over the limit) near Urlingford about a year ago in a UK car. All legitimately taxed, insured and MOT'd in the UK. When the guard saw my paperwork and a UK license he gave me a bollocking and let me go. Too much like hard work writing it up. I could have got a fine if he had been bothered.

There's probably not much they could do to a driver from another country for not having a insurance disc displayed as long as the document is satisfactory...

Actually, that's something I thought of. I guess it would count, since it doesn't say you need to display a disc specifically, rather proof of insurance...

The more I think about it, you'd probably get done for "Poor visibility of road" (1 (!) point on your license) for having a sheet of A4 on your window

seamus

Originally posted by PBC_1966
I'd say that driving with no insurance doesn't directly affect the safety of other drivers either. Has being in possession of a bit of paper confirming that you have insurance ever prevented an accident?

Yeah, that's badly worded alright. I guess they mean that having no disc will have no affect on other road users, but having no insurance will seriously affect another road user in the event of an accident (in addition to the accident, obviously ).

PBC_1966

Originally posted by ChipZilla
I was pulled for speeding (7mph over the limit) near Urlingford about a year ago in a UK car. All legitimately taxed, insured and MOT'd in the UK. When the guard saw my paperwork and a UK license he gave me a bollocking and let me go. Too much like hard work writing it up. I could have got a fine if he had been bothered.

There's probably not much they could do to a driver from another country for not having a insurance disc displayed as long as the document is satisfactory...

Certainly in the case of a UK driver in a UK-registered/insured/taxed car, there's nothing to query. One of the international road traffic conventions to which the UK, Ireland, and most other western countries are signatories states that if the car is considered legal in its home country then it must also me considered legal when visiting another country.

If we didn't have that, then a visiting Irish tourist in England could get ticketed for having no MoT certificate, a visiting French tourist could run into trouble under "construction & use" regulations for having a speedo which doesn't show MPH, and so on.

The more I think about it, you'd probably get done for "Poor visibility of road" (1 (!) point on your license) for having a sheet of A4 on your window

LOL!

We jest about it...... But there was a recent case here of a woman who was charged with driving with undue care and attention for taking a drink out of a bottle while stopped at a red light. Motorists have become easy targets for the burgeoning police state. :mad:

BrianD3

This is the conundrum. Most Irish drivers would also be covered by their insurance to drive anyone else's car. However, under Irish law, it's illegal to drive a car in a public place without displaying an insurace disc (afaik). So you may still be fined for non-display.

I've been wondering about this for awhile. My own situation is that I have a car with my own insurance and my dad has a car that he doesn't really use which I also use. The car needs to be insured in my dads name to get an insurance disc, but in my opinion I should be able to drive it on my own policy (which covers driving other vehicles) At the moment, my dad is basically taking out insurance in order to get an insurance disc.

Also, PBC_1966 are you aware of the road tax situation in Ireland. A vehicle needs to be insured to get taxed. Proof of insurance must be provided to the authorities before a tax disc will be issued. I presume that producing an insurance cert for Car A which states that driving other vehicles is permitted would not be acceptable proof of insurance for Car B which doesn't have an insurance cert of its own.

BrianD3

seamus

Originally posted by BrianD3
Also, PBC_1966 are you aware of the road tax situation in Ireland. A vehicle needs to be insured to get taxed. Proof of insurance must be provided to the authorities before a tax disc will be issued. I presume that producing an insurance cert for Car A which states that driving other vehicles is permitted would not be acceptable proof of insurance for Car B which doesn't have an insurance cert of its own.

Another issue there. Do any insurance companies issue multi-car policies, i.e. "Vehicle(s) for which the insured is covered:" followed by a list of vehicle registrations?

The insurance disc thing is weird. It's probably something archaic. Motorcyclists aren't obliged to carry one. Why not? A tax disc solely is good enough proof of being insured (at least it is when all the gardai are doing is a brief glance at it), and no more susceptible to fraud than the current system, where people are known to get a policy to get a disc, and then cancel the policy straight afterwards.

PBC_1966

Originally posted by BrianD3
Also, PBC_1966 are you aware of the road tax situation in Ireland. A vehicle needs to be insured to get taxed. Proof of insurance must be provided to the authorities before a tax disc will be issued

I think I did read that somewhere on an official Irish govt. website, and it's the same as in the U.K.

You need to send in a valid insurance certificate (if renewing by mail) or show one to the clerk (if renewing at the Post Office) before they'll issue the disc. But every form I've ever seen just says to produce a valid certificate "which covers the intended use of the vehicle," or words to that effect. So if my policy covers me to drive someone else's car and I'm the one applying for the tax disc, then the condition is satisfied.

By the way, sometimes you have to educate the clerks on the rules. A friend recently renewed his tax at a nearby post office, produced all his documents, and the clerk refused to issue the disc because his insurance certificate was due to expire in less than a week. It doesn't matter if the policy expires the next day, so long as you produce a certificate is valid at the precise moment the disc is issue. (Oh, he insisted on speaking to the manager who gave him the disc without question.) Do you ever get this sort of problem in Ireland with officials who don't know their own rules?

Silvera

The only people who can get 'any vehicle' insurance in Ireland are motor dealers.
Their insurance discs usually have the company name, e.g. Joe Bloggs Motors Ltd.
on them. They can transfer their discs from vehicle to vehicle.

However, if they are using a trade plate, they don't need to display a insurance disc !

(N.B. I have read about classic car owners (with many vehicles) getting multi vehicle policies in the UK. Don't know if that is possible in Ireland...... Would probably get separate discs if it was!).

Victor

In Ireland, it is primarily the car that is insured, whereas in the UK it is the person that is insured.

Originally posted by PBC_1966
In fact, as British policies always cover driving in Ireland as well, that could prove an interesting test. If I drove an Irish-registered car within the RoI, on my U.K. insurance, but there was no Irish policy and insurance sticker on the vehicle, then presumably if I were stopped by the Garda the production of my British certificate would satisfy them?

I'm not sure if it does. Certainly Irish (resident - EU 3 month rule) people have legal problems when driving foreign registered cars in Ireland.

jlang

Or else we'd all we be registering and insuring our cars in England to save on VRT and insurance prices here.

PBC_1966

Originally posted by Victor
In Ireland, it is primarily the car that is insured, whereas in the UK it is the person that is insured. I'm not sure if it does. Certainly Irish (resident - EU 3 month rule) people have legal problems when driving foreign registered cars in Ireland.

Ah yes, I believe there is a similar rule about a UK-resident not being allowed to drive a foreign-registered car in this country. But there's nothing to stop a non-resident driving a UK car, and surely that would be the similar situation to me -- as a non-RoI resident -- driving a car in Ireland with Irish plates?

Regarding the person vs car being insured, I found this in the 1961 Road Traffic Act on the www.irishstatutebook.ie website:

56.—(1) A person (in this subsection referred to as the user) shall not use in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle unless either a vehicle insurer, a vehicle guarantor or an exempted person would be liable for injury caused by the negligent use of the vehicle by him at that time or there is in force at that time either—

( a ) an approved policy of insurance whereby the user or some other person who would be liable for injury caused by the negligent use of the vehicle at that time by the user, is insured against all sums without limit (save as is hereinafter otherwise provided) which the user or his personal representative or such other person or his personal representative shall become liable to pay to any person (exclusive of the excepted persons) by way of damages or costs on account of injury to person or property caused by the negligent use of the vehicle at that time by the user,

That does seem worded to suggest that it is the person's use of the vehicle which must be insured, not specifically the vehicle itself.

Victor

Originally posted by PBC_1966
Regarding the person vs car being insured, I found this in the 1961 Road Traffic Act on the www.irishstatutebook.ie website:

I wouldn't read that by itself, see http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/isbc_1961.html