BBC and $ky looking into HDTV

Mike 1972

Just when theyre halfway* through the process of getting us all to buy digital boxes now theyre telling us its all gonna be obsolete when HDTV starts (2006 has been mentioned as a start date ?)

The Japaneese have been using HDTV since the end of the seventies (The French had a near-HDTV 819 line system since the late 1940's but had abandoned it by the early eighties) Surely it could have been rolled out here alongside Digital TV (or at the very least made the Digital system foward compatable)


* "halfway" in the sense that 53% of all UK homes have at least one TV connected to somne form of digital service but 80% of households have more than one TV and theres only one freeview VHS recorder on the market

carrolls

The concept of 625 line broadcasting is more than 40 years old while the concept of MPEG2 digital television is nearly 10 years old now, its about time there was HDTV available.

gorm

HDTV is available in Europe right now. see http://www.euro1080.tv . Only problem is content. Its improving but away to go yet. Its on Asta 1H @ 19.2E

Mike 1972

The concept of 625 line broadcasting is more than 40 years old while the concept of MPEG2 digital television is nearly 10 years old now, its about time there was HDTV available.

Actually the concept of 625 Line Television is almost sixty years old (Germany and Russia were broadcasting on 625 Lines long before Ireland and the UK)

the concept of broadcasting in MORE than 625 lines has actually been around far longer than MPEG2 As Ive already Stated the Japaneese have been doing it since the end of the seventies with their 1125 system. Prior to that the French had their 819 line system. The Americans are already broadcasting a 720 progressive/1080 interlaced system and Even in Ireland there were experimental HDTV tests (1250 Lines ?) back in the 1980's

When the DVB standards were developed It would have been easy to specify foward and backward compatability with HDTV but this wasnt done :mad: :mad:

Had it been the transition to HDTV could have been a lot faster, cheaper and easier :rolleyes:

The Real B-man

Originally posted by Mike 1972
Just when theyre halfway* through the process of getting us all to buy digital boxes now theyre telling us its all gonna be obsolete when HDTV starts (2006 has been mentioned as a start date ?)

sorry guys what is HDTV? fancy terrestrial?

ShaneOC

Originally posted by The Real B-man
sorry guys what is HDTV? fancy terrestrial?

High Definition Television (HDTV) is a new broadcasting system which almost doubles the number of lines used to make up a picture. HDTV can use up to 1080 horizontal rows to make up the picture (as opposed to out standard 625). It is in use in the US and Japan but has yet to take off here in Europe (although there is one channel broadcasting from Astra 1 - called Euro1080).

Mike 1972

HDTV gives sharper pictures enabling people to use bigger screens and sit closer to them

Actually one downside to HDTV is that The TV's (assuming they use CRT technology) use more power than ordinary TV. Having millions of these things across the land will mean yet more emmisions of CO2 and other pollutants and accellerated fossil fuel depletion. Enviornmentalists have already expressed concern about the design flaws in $ky Digiboxes which necessitate leaving them on standby (rather than fully turned off) when not in use in order to avoid missing Firmware and encryprion code upddates !

Of course this could be offset with improved TFT screen technology (These use 80% less power than CRT's) On the other hand junking all this analouge gear (in order to upgrade to digital) only to junk it all again (In order to upgrade to HDTV) isint particularly enviornmentally friendly either :mad:

watty

Unless you are in Club, cinema or have at least 48" TV you won't notic an improvement on 625 lines. The reason a LOW end version of HDTV has taken off in USA is because their 525 line (480 visible) on TVs usually bigger than ours does look poor. 625 has 576 visible lines.

The Europe HDTV tests are really for Cinema / Clubs / Pubs etc. That is reall inital market.

For a WS TV, as hieght is less than a "normal TV" you would need about 56" to take advantage of HDTV.


The cinemas are all worldwide changing to a professional HDTV (greater than 2000 lines) using dedicated secure satellites. This will save millions of $$$ on film prints and alow simultanous world wide release, reducing piracy and allowing DVD release earlier. The satellites are now in place and selected cinemas are testing.

The security is beleived to include GPS info so that a "decoder box" won't work an an unauthorised location.

The HDTV Projectors are belived mainly to be Texas micro mirror type, giving more contrast, sharpness, and brightness than LCD type in New york trials a few years ago.


HDTV *IS* DVB compatible. It is just that most MPEG2 Satellite receivers can only output 525 (480) or 625 (576) line as that is all a domestic TV can handle.

Few PC monitors can handle WS HDTV at 1080 in full resolution as 1440 lines at least are needed to "letterbox" at full resolution on a 4:3 tube.

Also at least a 48" screen needed for any kind of normal distance. Can you see the detail on your 19" 1600 x 1200 monitor more than 24" away

How many of us have a 1920 x 1440 4:3 monitor or a 1920 x 1080 WS (16:9) monitor?

And that is just "low resolution" or "entry level" HDTV for Europe.


The problem is not the Satellite Receiver. I'll bet you can get a €60 model by 2006 that does "component" HDTV and regular TV.

But a screen will cost €4000!

Forget about plasma. It is BIG, but never High Resolution. Life time is short too compared with DLP, LCD, CRT. Projectors (LCD or mirror) can give long life apart from bulb and give regular size, 4:3 or WS image as well as big image due to zoom lens etc.

Do you want the News on a 5ft screen?


Conclusions:

Due to 30% higher quality of PAL resolution compared to NTSC resolution and much smaller screens in Europe than USA, HDTV demand will be low. There may not be direct to home HDTV for TEN years. Meanwhile PPV (Clubs etc) and Cinema HDTV is taking off now.

Expect to pay less than now when your existing Satellite box is worn out for one that does regular and HDTV, but at least 10 times price of regular TV for "sensible" HDTV model (48" or Projector)

ALL entry level Video Projectors are too low resolution for HDTV.

gorm

Due to 30% higher quality of PAL resolution compared to NTSC resolution and much smaller screens in Europe than USA, HDTV demand will be low. There may not be direct to home HDTV for TEN years. Meanwhile PPV (Clubs etc) and Cinema HDTV is taking off now.

What are Euro1080.tv offering if not direct to home HDTV?

watty

Originally posted by gorm
What are Euro1080.tv offering if not direct to home HDTV?

Go read their website.

They claim to be targeting Clubs / Cinemas on PPV and subscription only.

There is no market for DTH HDTV (in Europe)...

Even WS is actually lower resolution than 4:3 as the same number of "dots" are stretched sideways.

Many Sky DVB are not even 720 x 576, but can be as low as 320 x 240, I think. If you look up DVD and DVB standards you will see why many Sky channels have to re-encoded to make a complient DVD, DVB has a lot of low and mid resolution settings.


The BBC as well as Japan developed ANALOG HDTV over 25 years ago. MPEG Digital HDTV is already nearly 10 years old. It is used by Cinema instead of film increasingly.

All FX now are generally in HDTV.