insert subject title here

LegacyUser

Hello. I'm not quite sure what the purpose of this post is or what it is going to be, but i'll write it anyway. Perhaps it will be therapeutic!

I am 22 years old, male, just finished my university degree and seeking employment. I am intelligent, however I am also socially retarded (to what degree is debateable) and a virgin. I've never had a real girlfriend, and virtually all of my experiences with the opposite sex have been under the influence of alcohol. Virtually all of my close friends are guys. Although that's not saying a lot because when I think about it i'd say I have only 2 close friends; 1 whom I see all the time, and 1 whom I unfortunately see very rarely. After that I have about a few distinct groups of 'mates' and semi-close mates who i'll meet up with every couple of days/weeks to drink/hang about with generally. Normal enough I'd imagine (the friends part, not the girlfriend/virgin thing… at least in general, it might be normal by social class/family standards), though I might be wrong.

Now, on to my retardation! I've noticed a couple of things about myself.

- I'm phone shy. I really hate ringing people (answering is fine). Depending on who/why I'm ringing I often lift the reciever before making the call, going through the possible conversation over and over in my head. My parents and best mates are generally OK. Taxis/takeaways ditto. Siblings aren't a big problem either, but I generally take a second before dialling. People/friends I don't ring often (especially girls) most definately are a problem. I fly through the conversation as fast as possible (if you can call it that, I can’t do phone conversations with people just to be socialable, they have to have a purpose)

- I go silent in groups. I've no problem with 1 on 1 conversations, however with any more than that I talk a lot less. The larger the group the lesser I say, particularily around people i don't know very well. I can never think of anything to say, and as soon as I notice that I haven't said anything for a while it just goes from bad to worse. Unless i'm fairly drunk, in which case it is usually ok. Occasionally when I have a bit of drink on me and i'm around people i'm comfortable with I become very chatty (not fully in a stupid drunken way ) and bubbly, which is how i see my personality (when i'm not in a shitty mood, but i'll get back to that later).

- I’m completely inhibited about physical contact. Whenever someone touches me (my back, shoulders, arms etc) and I’m not fully expecting it i jerk back slightly, entirely as a reflex action. I HATE this, as I have no problem with people touching me, and it must give off the impression that I do. I also have difficulty making physical contact (pat on the shoulder, anything innocent like that), as doing it feels like such a big deal (even though I know it isn’t). This can be a problem if I’m trying to comfort someone (which I’ve had to do a lot recently), or, making a move on a hotty. Smooooooooooth. No? Crap.

- I go through really long mood cycles. Regularily I’ll go for months feeling really shitty and disinterested, typically they are during the winter months. Maybe it’s a light case of seasonal affective disorder, I dunno. My sister suffered from bouts of depression for a few years (one day I walked in on her crying and she told me she wished she was dead… she apologised later on), but I don’t get like that at all, I just get completely apathetic and become a hermit for a while.

- Women. I can’t really pin down my difficulties here exactly. I CANNOT flirt (to my knowledge). In certain situations, I’m extremely on edge talking to girls I don’t really know…in jobs I’ve had, I’ve felt totally inappropriate talking about anything other than about the job, which is ridiculous. If we’d start talking about anything personal I’d start feeling really uncomfortable and make a quick exit. Once I know them a little better I’m fine having a chat, but it’s always so sterile. I don’t think I’ve ever had a flirty conversation. I may have when I’m drunk, but I don’t remember many specifics of conversations when under the influence anyway. In that respect I do ok, I’ll score every few weeks, but never follow it up bar a few exceptions. Though I’ve had some less than sexy opportunities to lose my virginity I have not done so, and any time there is a more appealing offering something has gotten in the way (no condoms, live with the parents, etc). Nearly all incidents have involved alcohol. I could probably rant on about the women aspect for pages, but I think I’ll stop now.

Scanning back through this awful load of waffle I reckon I’m mostly just ****ed for confidence and am suffering from a severe case of anal inhibitedness. I knew this already, so this isn’t much of an epiphany. Changing it has proved somewhat difficult. I know I’m a decent looking guy. I’ve made efforts to be more assertive, driven and confident but it doesn’t really stick. The inhibition fucks off mostly when I’m drunk but that’s not a very good solution. I kinda figure that once I finally get a girlfriend, a career direction, my own place and a nice sandwich whatever barrier that is stuck in my brain will disappear, but if it doesn’t… oh ****.

Anyway to finish this scatterbrained, undirectional and overly long… thing, I’ve concluded that… I should go make a sandwich. If you read the whole thing I commend you, but you must have been really bored. I wouldn’t have read it, maybe that’s my problem…well, I guess not.

Mutz

Do a few nights voluntary work with the Simon Community -

> Forces you out of your shell
> You come into physical contact with people
> Gives you a chance to talk to strangers
> If these don't work - it gives you something interesting to talk about in the pub or to women

Just my suggestion - either that, head off for a year travelling and get some life experience

LegacyUser

That is one of the most depressing posts ive read in a while as until i saw you were 22 i thought i must have posted it while drunk or something almost the exact same problems.
And no I dont have the solution either.

LegacyUser

No solution from me either - same boat...

I've stopped caring.

I'll be a Nietzscheian superman by this time next year if I continue like this.

oh, well...

BuffyBot

I am 22 years old, male, just finished my university degree and seeking employment. I am intelligent, however I am also socially retarded (to what degree is debateable) and a virgin.

Hmm. "Socially retarded". I really don't buy into that concept. Who are you measuring youself by? Is there an accepted scale? Not as far as I know. You are only socially retarded if you feel you are socially retarded - it's a mindset more than anything.

- I'm phone shy. I really hate ringing people (answering is fine). Depending on who/why I'm ringing I often lift the reciever before making the call, going through the possible conversation over and over in my head. My parents and best mates are generally OK. Taxis/takeaways ditto. Siblings aren't a big problem either, but I generally take a second before dialling. People/friends I don't ring often (especially girls) most definately are a problem. I fly through the conversation as fast as possible (if you can call it that, I can’t do phone conversations with people just to be socialable, they have to have a purpose)

Again, phone shyness isn't that unsual. A lot of people experience the same thing, so don't think it is "just you".

- I’m completely inhibited about physical contact. Whenever someone touches me (my back, shoulders, arms etc) and I’m not fully expecting it i jerk back slightly, entirely as a reflex action. I HATE this, as I have no problem with people touching me, and it must give off the impression that I do. I also have difficulty making physical contact (pat on the shoulder, anything innocent like that), as doing it feels like such a big deal (even though I know it isn’t). This can be a problem if I’m trying to comfort someone (which I’ve had to do a lot recently), or, making a move on a hotty. Smooooooooooth. No? Crap.

Again, not as uncommon as you think. People are individuals - some people love physical contact, some people hate it. Try not to think of it as being so bad - there are times when you will just do it because it feels right.

LegacyUser

I was suprised by how much your life is like mine.

The going silent in groups thing is really annoying. If I do it for too long I get panic attacks because I'm unable to deal with anything unpredictable which might happen (but probably wont) and I get worked up about what people are thinking about me.

It's definately a confidence thing. Can anyone reccommend something which worked for them regaining confidence?

whosurpaddy

the effect your post had on me is that i really want a sandwich.

tbh my advice would be a face your fears kinda thing. do something that would leave you in your worst nightmare situation, which i suppose would be in a group made up of entirely girls you dont know, who are all waiting for you to strike up a conversation. trust me it wont be that bad once you start talking to them.

as for how you'd go about that i dunno, you could organise an ann summers party, or put on loads of weight and go to a unislim meeting, or hire a flock(what is the plural of hookers?) of hookers and make them promise not to sleep with you until you've talked to them for at least an hour.

HarryD

I can relate to alot of what you say .. I'm 27..
I think it gets less severe as you get older..

BigCon

Congratulations, you're normal!!!!

You'll be fine. I was like you too when I was your age, now I'm 27 and found that as you get more life experience the shyness/akwardness, whatever you want to call it, retracts to some degree (doesn't disappear altogether, occasionally I have to force myself to get stuck into a conversation).

I trick I had was when I was feeling like this was to say to myself, feck it, in 100 years times we'll all be dead and no one will remember the day or night that I made a fool of myself (as it turns out, when you would take the risk to phone/chat someone up/talk in a group you generally wouldn't make a fool of yourself anyway).
If you do get rejection/laughed at (which probably would hardly ever happen) laugh it off (even if you want to die on the inside) - the most simple answer to any slagging is "I don't care" (said with a smile on your face) - impossible to beat in most situations!!!

Enjoy life as much as you can, we're not here for that long you know...

tman

Originally posted by arf
Scanning back through this awful load of waffle I reckon I’m mostly just ****ed for confidence and am suffering from a severe case of anal inhibitedness. I knew this already, so this isn’t much of an epiphany. Changing it has proved somewhat difficult. I know I’m a decent looking guy. I’ve made efforts to be more assertive, driven and confident but it doesn’t really stick. The inhibition fucks off mostly when I’m drunk but that’s not a very good solution. I kinda figure that once I finally get a girlfriend, a career direction, my own place and a nice sandwich whatever barrier that is stuck in my brain will disappear, but if it doesn’t… oh ****.

i've considered making a similar post many a time... i'm just about to turn 22 and have been feeling like this for a couple of years now.
moving in with a good friend has changed me quite a bit already over the past 2 months.
it'd be nice to imagine a time in the future when i'll be completely free of inhibitions and all that crap... it just isn't going to happen though.

Zulu

I know women are crazy, but just treat them like you do guys.
If people like you - they like you.
If they don't - that's not your problem, it's theres.

...I know it's easy for me to say. I know there's probably no help in it. ...but honesty is the best. I used to be like you, then I just say fu(k it. Like me or lump me. I've never had a problem since.
That being said, a pretty girl always makes you fumble. Thats a natural law though caused by a lowering in blood flow to the brain resulting in o2 depravation.

Myksyk

Funny thing about this post was that it was sad in content but very amusing in style. So we know that it's not that you can't be witty and amusing, just that your ability to be this way is compromised in social situations.

One thing to understand is that this is not a static condition but an evolving pattern. That is, this is not the way you are but the way you've become. The good thing about this is that change is entirerly possible if not altogether easy.

The goal then is to break the pattern before it becomes too ingrained. This involves confronting anxieties and treading into new ground...such is the nature of change.

Social anxiety is just a short-hand term. Peel away that sticker and what it represents is a particular pattern of thinking, behaviour, physical responses and emotional reactions. It is not usually possible or necessary to find out where this all began. Just accept that you are in the middle of this pattern, that you need to understand how it keeps going and that you need to make concerted, informed efforts to break that pattern by changing at least some aspects of it.

For example, you may be at the stage that thoughts about an upcoming social situation cause anticipatory anxiety (usually experienced emotionally and physically) which lead to avoidance behaviours which lead to mental post mortems about your ability to cope with ordinary things in life which lead to slightly reduced self esteem which lead to slightly increased awareness/sensitvity and anxiety about the next social situation which can lead to frustration and low mood and so on and so on. This is a slowly downward spiralling pattern.

My advice would be to read a respected self-help book such as 'Overcoming Social Anxiety' by Oxford Univeristy-based psychologist Gillian Butler, one of the main players in the area of social anxiety.

Either that or have another sandwich!

hedgetrimmer

This all boils down to one thing - your personality.

So what if you're not brash, loud, boisterous? Everyone has fears about social interaction, and everyone doubts theie self-confidance if they are aware of their emotions - otherwise they just find various substitutes/ crutches to stave off the fear and convince themselves that everythign is ok.

The best way, imo, to increase your self confidance is find out what you like,w aht you want to do and then do it. Reinforce yourself, make yourself happy, and that will radiate out.

We live in a society which pins personal success to social success - which is a very dangerous, and imo very wrong, benchmark against which to hold or compare any person.

Take it easy on yourself, mate

Paladin

Congratulations, you're normal!!!!
I agree. Almost everyone feels those things.

I think the only way is to really try and force yourself to be brave and just make the call, or make the move on a girl or do whatever makes you nervous.
Took me a while to overcome, but thats the way with most people when they are young.

After the first time you (soberly!!) walk up to and try and chat to a girl it becomes easier (whether you fail to pull her or not). You just have to avoid worrying about what you will say. Trust that it will come to you. This includes running over conversations in your head before phone calls. We have all done this. Jesus I remember ringing up a girl I barely knew to ask her to my Grads a few years ago. Nerve-racking. Had the phone in my hand a few times and chickened out. When I did it, it went fine.

I guess the moral of the story is that everyone feels those things you do. For me, as I got older and more experienced socially, it came easier to socially interact and now its not even something Id even think about (much).

Also friends that drag the outgoing side of you out helps a lot!!

Dr. Loon

Next time you're with a big group - ask them what their favourite sandwich is. That'll have a conversation going on for hours. I swear.

It's not always necessary to be bickering away. Be comfortable in your own silence. You don't HAVE to talk in groups. As for the phone.... fúck them, they can't see you.

seamus

It's partly confidence, partly experience.

Just like in most things, you can't be confident about something until you've experienced it. Driving a car, flying in a plane, starting a new job. They're all things that you are nervous doing at first, but eventually you become confident. It's one of our basic traits as humans.

I don't know what you did your degree in, let's say it's computers. You're totally comfortable and confident with them, because you know them. I know people who are actually terrified of them. It's no different.

When I was younger (up until about 16) I was painfully shy. Didn't really talk much at all, unless with my own mates, didn't know any girls, made vague "meeps" whenever any talked to me, and in groups, just faded into the background. I hung around with two other guys pretty much day and night, and just by the way our lives worked, we didn't hang around with any girls, and we were always a small group. So I had zero confidence with the opposite sex, and wasn't used to large groups.

Work forced me out of my shell, and it's probably the single best thing for becoming a confident person. Don't shy away from work where you'll have to interact with people. You could very easily get a job with little or no people interaction, and where you get loads of time to think to yourself. But why would you? If you do, you'll have loads of time to think to yourself about how depressed you are about your lack of confidence, and how you wish you were happier. A job interacting with people may seem scary, but a job interacting with no-one will make you miserable. Don't get me wrong, plenty of people would be happy in those kinds of jobs, but they are already happy with their confidence level, whether they are confident or not. You're not happy.

When you do get work, don't be afraid to put your opinion out there, if you think it has merit. If people respect you, they'll approach you for idle chatter or advice, taking some of the pressure of having to initiate social contact off of you.
Go to work outings. I can't stress that enough. I still hmm and haw all day when one of these things is on, and on the bus in think about how much I'd prefer to be sitting at home, but once I get in, I always have a ball.

It's all about experience. You'll just need to find places to get it.

Naos

First, brave man..

Second. Why dont ye all(by that i mean the peeps with low confidence) meet up ? You could go out to a bar together, get talking, 'warm' urselfs up and then hit a club ?

That way it'd be easier to talk to 1 lad/lass on their own, as you would have had to encounter a group of peeps just prior to that, and survived..

just a suggestion

David-[RLD]-

:eek:

You're almost the exact same as me, except I'm 16 and I have a girlfriend. I know that doesn't help but...

Sounds like you hate yourself. It's your personality. My advice is: don't change for anyone. If you want to change to fit in or impress people then I think you may want to reconsider.

Beruthiel

as seamus said, it is partly confidence partly experience

imo experience is everything, as you build on it you realise a lot about yourself - I truly believe my confidence began at about the age of 28, before that I was shy, afraid to give an opinion and had low self esteem. Various things happened in my life around that time that forced me to make some big decisions. Being forced out of your shell is a scary experience, until you come to the realisation that it didn’t kill you and when you look back, all it has done is made you a stronger person. I found this book to be exceedingly helpful at the time, I recommend you read it:

Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway - Susan Jeffers

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0712671056/026-3356366-7930850

Small steps are the way to go, pick something small that you are scared to do, do it anyway and see the fact that nothing has changed apart from you have gained a little confidence. Pick a small thing every day. Keep doing it. This will take time, no such thing as overnight miracles, but if you start today, it's the beginning of the new more confident you!

Take solace in the fact that you come across as an intelligent, articulate individual who should have no problem at all once a little confidence has been gained. Start today
good luck!
a

Tommy Vercetti

I can relate to a lot of that too, all I can say is you'll get older and wiser. Find some new things to do and people to meet, you'll settle down and find yourself.

Etain

There is no substitute for experience. As you gain experience, try focusing on others and not on yourself. Try asking questions and giving (genuine) compliments.These techniques put the conversation back on the other person. This also makes you notice what is going on around you instead of focusing inward. You really have to listen to someone when they are speaking so you can ask a sensible question. It doesn't have to be a deep or complex question, just related to their topic. This is especially good when talking to girls because you make it clear that you are actually listening to them.
A compliment followed by a little question is good too. "That shirt is a lovely color, what shade of blue, pink, red, etc.. would you call that?"
Remember we can all feel uncomfortable and you may doing someone a world of good by talking to them and making them feel included.

CathyMoran

I think that a lot of people have felt like you at some stage - it just takes time...the thing that changed me was when a close friend got cancer and I realised that life was too short...

Kêrmêttê

Originally posted by HarryD
I can relate to alot of what you say .. I'm 27..
I think it gets less severe as you get older..

I can relate to what you say too.
I'm 30 and I dont think it gets less severe as you get older... I think you learn to deal with your feelings and surroundings a bit better.

I have always clammed up silently in a group of people, especially with people that I have never met before. At first it was a nervous reaction, but as the years went on I learned a lot about myself and what's going on around me.
I've found that by sitting quiet in a gang of incessent chatters you get to observe a lot of stuff... most of it being that the people whittering and waffling away are even more nervous and self concious than you are. They're mostly trying to justify their existance or else to draw attention to themselves for recognition or validation.
Then again... maybe I enjoy my own company too much... I think I'm turning into a cyincal ole boot... EEEEP!

Just relax and try not to panic in a social environment. Take deep breaths and look around. Things aren't REALLY that bad.

The Corinthian

Get a sales job. Six months of forcing yourself to be sociable and talk to people so as to sell something (and by extenstion yourself) and you'll be sorted. Seriously.

snoopish

You need someone thats gonna drag you out of that self obsessed over analying shell of yours (oh god i'm such a hypocrite:D ). *shakes you*