I'm banning myself from the Fitz

Iago

I've come to this decision because I need to stamp out a fatal flaw in my game, and to do that I need to analyse why i'm doing it and how I can stop it. Until then all I'm doing is costing myself money.

I finished 7th last night and got €60, but I should have finished in the top 3 at least (speaking of which, how did you finish Dev? you were sitting pretty when I left)

I play completely differently when I'm in the Fitz, and it's quite succesful. Starting on the final table last night I had 32,000 in chips, and I was in a good position. I'd been catching people all night, Vivian walked into my kings and went out, Oisin walked into my aces and went out, Ken walked into trip Q and went out and Davey Devil walked into the nut flush (he did have a str8, and in fairness the table was very unkind to him)

the whole night I played tight, rarely even raising when I had a hand, instead slowplaying and picking people off. Then we got down to the final table and there was 8 of us left, one player went and we were down to 7. I had about 22,000 left and had just lost my big blind of 4,000. I put in the SB of 2,000 and everybody folded around to me.

I had Jc 9s, my first instinct was to throw it away and avail of the free rounds to pick up a better hand. For some reason, instead of doing that I raised 4,000, my first mistake of the night. The BB thought about it for about 3-4 minutes and eventually called. Flop came Qs Xs Xc, so I've nothing, and very limited chances of hitting anything, I check (or at least that's what my brain did, even as my hands and mouth were pushing my chips into the middle and saying all in) BB calls without hesitation and turns over Ks6s, looking for the flush draw.

Neither turn or river helped either of us and I was out. This is the problem, and it has happened every time I've gotten to the final table, my brain thinks one thing and my body does something completely different. A hard nights work thrown away for 2 moments of stupidity. I still don't know what I was thinking, but until I figure it out I'm staying away from the fitz

pokertroll

Its called tourettes syndrome - you can get treatment for it! Tim Howard, the Manu goalie has managed to get it under control. No shame in seeking advice.

Sounds like another good night for the boards people in the fitz.

<boast>
BTW I won the Merrion 20-in tourney last night!
</boast>

careca

I'm not sure you played that hand too bad at all. The preflop raise was a little small, but if you made it too big it would be obvious you were stealing. Realistically, the BB blind should not have called your all in bet on a draw, unless of course he had a massive stack. I certainly would have mucked my cards. I know hindsight is a great thing but you have to rob blinds at the final table when you are short (ish) stacked.

DeVore

Officially I came second though myself and the last guy did some business and played for the pocket change and the glory.

I started the night and the entire of the buy-in period awfully. First hand of the night I have A10s. I make a preflop raise... called in one place. Flop comes 10-high rainbow and I bet 400.. a "fuck-off" bet if ever I saw one. Called.

Turn comes 8h. 300 bet and called.
River is Qh... checked and *checked*...

I turn over pair of tens... he turns over K2 of hearts. He's been chasing a runner-runner flush from the flop. In fact I dont think he even understood that he was chasing it. I'm not sure he knew what a flush is.

Then came the single most incredible run of poor cards I've ever seen. Even the guy beside me was laughing about it. They proceeded to get worse and when I show him 53o he laughs and says "Ah it cant get any worse!" ... next hand I show him 52o and he laughs again and repeats himself. Next hand I show him 32o.

Juuuuuuust before break I have 1K chips left and I'm down to my last rebuy/topup. I get JTh and decide to go home. Toss in the 1k and watch as I hit a straight!

From that point I never looked back and I motored/ground out the chips. Mostly not with big hands but by hitting stuff on the flop or pushing people off them. It wasnt pretty poker like Iago was hittin'!

I went to the final table with 45K in chips and feeling GOOD cos I knew I was going to get paid. My final table skillz have improved a lot recently with all the play we've had in the BSOP and homegames (which play very much like tournie final tables!).
I tightened up and played the good stuff and found myself some luck too... nothing outrageous but like Aces standing up, flushes hitting and top two pair being enough to take it. You know, the way things are *supposed* to go.

I grind on as people fall by the wayside by this stage its 2:30am and there's 4 of us.
Then 3, then there's a HUGE 134,000 pot between the other two blokes and I bail to let them sort it out. In one fell swoop one guy has just doubled his stack and earned as much as all my nights grinding in one!

We get to heads up and do a deal for the cash. 1K each. I play J3o (hey its heads up!) and hit J3x rainbow on the flop. I bet small and he reraises all in. I didnt even realise I had 2 pair as I had dismissed my 3 but realise just in time to shovel all my chips in the middle!
I have two pair and he has A5 spades.

Runner runner spades end my night the way it began. Except I'm €1k richer.


DeV.

Marq

Well done DeV, the proof is in the profits

Lafortezza

Originally posted by Iago
I play completely differently when I'm in the Fitz, and it's quite succesful. Starting on the final table last night I had 32,000 in chips, and I was in a good position. I'd been catching people all night, Vivian walked into my kings and went out, Oisin walked into my aces and went out, Ken walked into trip Q and went out and Davey Devil walked into the nut flush (he did have a str8, and in fairness the table was very unkind to him)

In fairness, getting and hitting these kind of cards, its fairly hard to play them badly. Playing the marginal hands and betting the medium pairs and stuff that will get value before killing the pot/representing a bigger hand is the trickier thing to do.

Originally posted by Iago
This is the problem, and it has happened every time I've gotten to the final table, my brain thinks one thing and my body does something completely different. A hard nights work thrown away for 2 moments of stupidity. I still don't know what I was thinking, but until I figure it out I'm staying away from the fitz

maybe its that you expect the final table to play scared for fear of being knocked out. You tried to buy/bully the pot but he decided he was going to make his stand going for that flush draw, he missed and he should have been out if you had the hand you were representing..

maybe its just a bad phase, the more final table practice you get the better decisions you'll make

DeVore

Ah... Gary got a visit from the Stupid Fairy I see!

Happens to us all. I'm going to have "2 seconds thought costs nothing" tattooed on my right hand so I'll see it whenever I reach for my chips. I am currently beating myself out of a habit of snapping off frustration raises when my AQ misses a K-high flop

Gary, you are an insanely aggressive player at times. I think you need to curb that in your game as it gives you a lot of wild results I'd say. I've seen you make some very questionable big moves. Sure you can bully people but when you get called you are going to be smashing yourself into their monster.

You know it yourself, you have the skills but you need to tame that instinct you have ie: to always be in at the kill. Theres no shame in putting a big hand down or just folding when you dont hit anything. I have a feeling you are still "pining" for those lost chips and hence you do whatever you think will get them back sometimes...

Just my 2c.

DeV.

Iago

Originally posted by Lafortezza
In fairness, getting and hitting these kind of cards, its fairly hard to play them badly. Playing the marginal hands and betting the medium pairs and stuff that will get value before killing the pot/representing a bigger hand is the trickier thing to do.

I understand that Luke, and I wasn't talking about those hands when I was talking about changing my game. What I meant was that I was playing pretty tight and dropping marginal hands at the right time, betting big at the right time with them.

For example I only hit 3 flushes all night, I did the same in 5 hands against Dev the week before . But I don't play as crazily as I do in home games and I think things through more (generally anyway)

Originally posted by DeVore
You know it yourself, you have the skills but you need to tame that instinct you have ie: to always be in at the kill. Theres no shame in putting a big hand down or just folding when you dont hit anything.

Yep, that about sums it up alright. It really is a moment of madness though, during the night I was folding Q8, K8 Q10 on occasion because it was the right thing to do...there's always 1 hand where I lose all sense of reason and sometimes I get away with it but more often than not I end up outside smacking my head against a wall!!

Iago

ok I haven't stopped thinking about this hand and so I'll post the scenarios as I see them and I would like to see what y'all would have done in the same situation.

Scenario 1: You fold the SB, gives you a full round to pick up a better hand and stay in the game. My preference in hindsight

Scenario 2: You raise the blind and then go all in on the flop regardless. Should have worked, but definitely the wrong way to play the hand.

Scenario 3: You go all in on the blind and hope he doesn't call. Takes the decision away from you but you'ld probably be seen as stealing and get called.

Scenario 4: You simply call the blind, the odds are that BB will raise thinking your limping in. You'll probably fold because you have to put him on better than J high

Scenario 5: You raise the blind and then bet out each round. With approx. 14,000 left you could bet 4,000, 4,000 and 8,000. In this case he would probably have folded, unless he decided to go all in anyway after the flop...

Yes I do have too much time on my hand and no I don't have anything better to do

DeVore

during the night I was folding Q8, K8 Q10 on occasion because it was the right thing to do...

Errr... ok, I dunno if you mean post or pre flop but the only one of those I'll usually play (and in lateish position) is QT. The others will just get you hurt on a full table.
Even QT is tentative on a Q high flop.


Scenario 5 is a total loser play. You arent going to lose him slowly, its has to be a shock decision. By the later bets he will probably call with anything as the pot is quite large.

You have 22K left, blinds are 2k/4k meaning you can see 4 full rounds more (including the freebie you are about to commence). You can find better then J9 in that time though you're payout will decrease if you dont find it in the next dozen hands or so. If you wanted to bluff, you should have stuck it all in pre-flop and put it up to the BB. Otherwise I would either have called and folded to a reraise or just folded there and then. Most likely the former.

DeV.

PHB

The other way is you limp in, let him raise, then go all in.

He'll be thinking in his head that not only did he get trapped, but that you have him thinking about pot odds for him to call, he'll put you on a monster and he'll fold :P

Marq

I think DeV's quite right on this one. If you were sitting on a small stack (and 22,000 isn't the smallest you could be on at this point), then you've got to decide when to make your stand sooner rather than later. J9 against the big blind might not seem so bad, but raising before the flop you have to accept that you're pot committed (over a third of your stack is now in this pot). If you're going to raise here, you have to raise all in, becuase after the flop, and with that much of your stack invested in it, you're either going to risk the rest of it anyway, or fold and make do with an even smaller stack.

If you look at it like that, before the flop you have to decide whether or not a hand like J 9 is worth making your stand on. I guess my point is that if you raise that much of your stack before the flop, you're going to raise the rest after it, so you might as well stick it all in first and put the decision on him.

Having said that, If you think your opponent is likely to give you a cheap flop, it might be worth just calling from the SB. Obviously this very much depends on what you know of your opponent, and unless you are quite confident that you're going to see the flop for the extra 2000, you shouldn't dream of limping in. Having said that, against one player (a BB at that), and with a semi-decent drawing hand, you could stand to make money from limping in, particularly if you know your opponent is someone who can be bluffed. Really risky play though.

J9 is never a hand most people would be comfortable going all in with for a showdown, and you're bound to pick up better over the next couple of rounds, so wait.

Then again, what do I know?