Reply letters

gogo

I have applied for loads of jobs lately (last three months or so), and haven't recieved letters from them even to say that I haven't got the jobs.

Is this now standard - that companies don't bother to reply to you unless your getting the job, if so i find it fairly lously. There were three jobs that i was really interested in and I wondered if it would be bad form of me to ring up the companies and ask what the story is? I am beginning to think that i have the worst cv in history.

I should add that these are large companies - not shops down the road, and that a reply should be common courtesy these days - no?:dunno:

GoneShootin

The only crowd I have had that from is Verkom. They *never* reply to job applications. Hate being left in limbo like that. I find em ****e in all fairness.

Everyone else that I have delt with are quite good, with one or two going out of their way to send me the right direction (graduate here)

RicardoSmith

I'd say I get a reply from about 5% of all job applications I've ever written. I'm surprised now when I get one. I think its a good idea to try and get some feedback. The more you get the better.

The most successful way of find a job is via personal contacts, networking, people you know, or friends of friends. That finds something like 80% of all jobs. All the other methods, like newspaper ads, online jobsites, agencies only find about 20% of jobs. So if you should spend 80% of your efforts on the networking side of things.

Some have posted their CV's on the forums for some feedback and have got good advice and improved on their CV a lot. I actually redesigned mine after reading some of the comments/advice and actually a couple places have commented on how well the CV looks. Hasn't got a me a job though yet!

emertoff

Originally posted by gogo
I should add that these are large companies - not shops down the road, and that a reply should be common courtesy these days - no?:dunno:

Yes it should be common courtesy but that's not the world we live in. Even a standard letter of rejection is better than nothing and brings closure to a particular application. I can't understand why companies do it, in my experience it's the smaller local companies that don't respond, strangely enough. From a global multinational to a small corner shop, behind every applicant is a potential or existing customer so I can't figure it out. On one occasion, I wrote to a company (a book retailer) with whom I spent €100's per year pointing this out and telling them they had lost my custom as a result and that of anyone else I could 'persuade'.

It would be a great idea, and definately possible in the online world, if each applicant could be given an automated application number, like those used in exams. If big employers then had some secure site, a candidate could check this and see whether they progressed to the next stage or whatever.

chump

RicardoSmith where did you get your stats on the following comment:

"
The most successful way of find a job is via personal contacts, networking, people you know, or friends of friends. That finds something like 80% of all jobs. All the other methods, like newspaper ads, online jobsites, agencies only find about 20% of jobs. So if you should spend 80% of your efforts on the networking side of things.
"

I can't believe that is even remotely true...

RicardoSmith

I was surprised myself, but then when you thing about it why not? When I sat down and though about it has been the experience of most of the people I know and my self included. The percentages are my own stats but they are more or less repeated in most Recruitment books you'll read. Theres an interesting one called "What Color is Your Parachute" by Richard N Bolles. I'll quote some of it.

"...96% of all online job hunters finally found their jobs in ways other than on the Internet. And employers find 92% of all their new employees in ways other than the Internet."

The stats are pulled mainly from US sources and surveys. Personally found a little more success than that from the Internet, but that was because I work in IT and have been contracting. Most of that work appears online. But even so the net is my least successful way of find work, even when contracting.

chump

Yea sounds pretty surprising, but who knows...

I'm going to do some thinking out loud...

1 - got job off pal of pal
2 - summer job off da
3 - works for da
4 - got job by self, degree recruitment
5 - job self, civil servant
6 - hospital adverts
7 - newspaper advert
8 - me, all jobs ever (6+) thru ads etc...
9 - local shop ad on door
10 - local ads
11 - friend in job agency
12 - same as above

tis a decent no. of people but I still dunno about 90%
but maybe i'm just naive ...

also i do remember my careers advisery man told me that i should really consider using friends, and relatives to get my head in the door

i just hate nepotism ... i won't go far

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by chump


i just hate nepotism ... i won't go far

why?

chump

why?

well because when you go for a job, and end up not getting it, not because you're the lesser candidate etc... but because daddy's son or a friend of a friend who knows someone in whatever department has some pull... its annoying

some pretty complex reasoning

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by chump
why?

well because when you go for a job, and end up not getting it, not because you're the lesser candidate etc... but because daddy's son or a friend of a friend who knows someone in whatever department has some pull... its annoying

some pretty complex reasoning

Theres an alternative view, that if you were really committed you would use every advantage you had to get the job, and if you didn't know any one in the place you would make it your business to get to know someone.

kmick

Originally posted by gogo
There were three jobs that i was really interested in and I wondered if it would be bad form of me to ring up the companies and ask what the story is?

If you feel you had the correct qualifications for the three you were really interested in i.e. you had the education and some experience and were not applying for Head of Marketing with a diploma in Woodwork and no experience then you should ring the HR department and get some feedback. Ask them if the job is still available and if not is there any other suitable positions currently available. It will be uncomfortable for them but without a brass neck you dont get anywhere. They will be delighted if there is some position they want to fill. You need to get a name as well. Don't ring up looking for the Head of HR you will be funelled to an answering machine most of the time.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by chump
why?

well because when you go for a job, and end up not getting it, not because you're the lesser candidate etc... but because daddy's son or a friend of a friend who knows someone in whatever department has some pull... its annoying

some pretty complex reasoning

complex reasoning?

look at ricardo's post.

you want a job, go and get through any means possible.
if you have a problem leveraging any inroad you have into an account, then you probably dont deserve to be there.

chump

What in the name of god are you talking about wwman?

> complex reasoning?

it wasn't complex reasoning, that was sarcasm, from an earlier post u seemed confused as to why one would dislike nepotism, i gave an explanation

> look at ricardo's post.

i've looked, of course he makes valid points, and offers an alternative viewpoint, what exists in the world that people can't put forward an alternative viewpoint on?

>you want a job, go and get through any means possible.
>if you have a problem leveraging any inroad you have into an account, then you >probably dont deserve to be there.

i sure as hell would get a job thru any means possible, even nepotism, if i must, that doesn't take from the fact that i hate nepotism, id much rather if every1 was an equal and jobs (etc..) were dished out solely on qualifications, personal attributes, experience, interview, testing, and what not...

understand now?

RicardoSmith

You wish the world was fair... me too.

chump

Bit of a tag team event eh? weh weh

Ah

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by chump


i sure as hell would get a job thru any means possible, even nepotism, if i must, that doesn't take from the fact that i hate nepotism, id much rather if every1 was an equal and jobs (etc..) were dished out solely on qualifications, personal attributes, experience, interview, testing, and what not...

understand now?

i understand you. i understood you the first time as well.

nepotism is only a form of networking. personally if i could get a job based on the fact that i am realted to someone i would be over joyed.

as it is, i have spent the last 3 months doing interviews, going to the US for interviews, and finally, today, i have one final interview with HR over salary negotiation.
if nepotism could save me 12 interviews and a trip to the US, then im all for it.
they are all for the same position by the way.

as much as we would all want a fair Wolrd to live in, we dont. deal with it.

chump

I must have rubbed u up the wrong way wwman... if it was inferred anywhere is my posts that I need to 'get over' the fact that nepotism exists, please point it out to me...

I'll draw your attention to my original comment:

> also i do remember my careers advisery man told me that i should really consider
> using friends, and relatives to get my head in the door
> i just hate nepotism ... i won't go far

and my followup comment

> sure as hell would get a job thru any means possible, even nepotism, if i must,
> that doesn't take from the fact that i hate nepotism, id much rather if every1 was > an equal and jobs (etc..) were dished out solely on qualifications, personal
> attributes, experience, interview, testing, and what not...

I find it hard to see how the above statements suggest that I have a issue with nepotism that I need to 'get over'... perhaps you read between the lines too much?

I dislike nepotism.
I accept it exists.
I will use it if I must.