Stuck in a Moment....

LegacyUser

I'm a regular to boards.ie, but am going unregistered due to the nature of the topic.

Ok, here goes.... I'm a guy in my early 20's and for sometime have been confused about my sexuality. Please note that I'm not posting this in the LGB fields as although I'm confused I don't consider myself gay. However, if mods think this should be moved then, go ahead and do so!

Anyway, I used to work with this bloke who is also a neighbour for a few years, and since then we have remained pals. We regularly meet up for a few beers. This guy is actually in his mid 30's, but nonetheless we get on well.

Over a year ago, we were at a christmas do, and both of us got very drunk and before we knew it (without getting into too much detail) we started to get a little intimate while walking home. He kissed me, and before I knew it we were getting rather sexual. This happen on 4 other occassions since after a nights out on the beer. Each time I've been very drunk.

I'm really starting to think this is getting out of hand. I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober, its always happened when I'm off my head on booze. Should this stop? How do I make it stop. I enjoy it at the time, but feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards. Could be be using me, keep in mind I'm always drunk.

This is playing on my mind too long, and I don't know who to turn to. I need to know what to do. I must also point out that he is a good 12 years or more older than me. I feel trapped everytimer, and helpless to fend him off. i find myself giving in (due to drink consumed).

Please help!!!

Gordon

I really feel that this should be in the LGB forum mostly due to the letter B.

However if it is your intent on having this thread here then that's not a problem.

BuffyBot

Over a year ago, we were at a christmas do, and both of us got very drunk and before we knew it (without getting into too much detail) we started to get a little intimate while walking home. He kissed me, and before I knew it we were getting rather sexual. This happen on 4 other occassions since after a nights out on the beer. Each time I've been very drunk.

Hmmm. A rather simplistic view would be to not put yourself in a situation where you are drunk where he is present.

I'm really starting to think this is getting out of hand. I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober, its always happened when I'm off my head on booze. Should this stop? How do I make it stop. I enjoy it at the time, but feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards. Could be be using me, keep in mind I'm always drunk.

Do you want it to stop? Perhaps you are using your drunkenness as a crutch? A way to make excuses to yourself, making the guilty feelings you are having a little better?

You need to think about why you feel so guilty about what happens. In there, I think, lies the key to all this.

As for making it stop - well if you decide that you want it to stop, you will. As I said above, not getting yourself into a situation where you are drunk and in his presence is one way.

This is playing on my mind too long, and I don't know who to turn to. I need to know what to do. I must also point out that he is a good 12 years or more older than me. I feel trapped everytimer, and helpless to fend him off. i find myself giving in (due to drink consumed).

At the end of the day, this "relationship", if you can call it that, isn't a healthy one. Especially so if you are confused about your sexuality.

You probably need to cutr back on the drinking when he is around, and perhaps, if you are a bit more sober when he is around next say you do not want this to happen.

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Confused
I'm really starting to think this is getting out of hand. I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober, its always happened when I'm off my head on booze. Should this stop? How do I make it stop. I enjoy it at the time, but feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards. Could be be using me, keep in mind I'm always drunk.

is there any possibility that you could be in some denial here? Don't have a heart attack, I'm just wondering out loud so to speak....

I have been very, very drunk on one or two occasions in my life (no smartass comments please ) but have never not known what I will or won’t do.
Perhaps you do actually enjoy it and the drink just helps get rid of those voices in your head that make you think this is wrong. It isn’t you know, maybe that’s what you have to explore? I believe if this was truly something you absolutely did not want to do, you wouldn’t have gone drinking with him so many times since

zag

Dude, I' wondering the same thing as Beruth, could you be denying your natural urges?
I'm a hetrosexual male, and no matter how pi*sed I get, I would never snog or do anything sexual with a guy.

It sounds like you are attracted towards men, and when you are sober you suppress it. When you are drunk you have less inhibitions and barriers, and use the drink as an excuse to get what you really want.

It sounds like you have alot of accepting to do of yourself, perhaps you could be bi-sexual. I'm no expert on this topic, and I am judging the situation purely on what you have stated in your post.

There's no shame in talking to a counsellor about this, as it's a very sensitive matter for you, and you probably don't want to share it would others close to you.

I would go to a counsellor, it won't cost you that much, and work the problem out in there. From there you should have a better Idea of where you stand, and perhaps even come up with an action plan for the future.

You're new life is only a step away, don't be afraid to explore, find out what it is inside you and go at it. Don't keep suppressing it.

zag

At the end of the day, this "relationship", if you can call it that, isn't a healthy one. Especially so if you are confused about your sexuality.

Buffybot, no offence, but I think that this statement should be disregarded.

Confused, the reason I say this, is, me, being straight, if I were to have this exact same relationship with a woman, I would not consider it to be unhealthy. Albeit if you are confused, then in fairness, it can only lead the way to your self knowledge.
If you enjoy it, then you may well be attracted to men. There is nothing wrong with this. We are all products of our conditioning, our upbringing, family school, friends and peers. We end up in a mode where we think it is wrong, different and it's defintely not for me.

You are feeling guilt because your actions are going against what you were led to believe, by others and by your own image of yourself.

seamus

Yeah, my opinion would be pretty much what zag says.

You say you feel dirty afterwards, but go back and do it again anyway. That suggests to me that you do enjoy it, but something in your upbringing or in your own head is telling you that it's wrong. When you're drunk, you can't hear them.

As was said, I'm straight, and I never have, nor have even considered being with another man, regardless of how drunk I was. It would be slightly like getting down on all fours and licking the tarmac, I wouldn't do it, because it would make me sick, no matter how drunk I was.

The euphoria/relaxation that alcohol creates, draws you towards activities that you would enjoy. Hence sex, dancing, merriment. If it was making you depressed, sex is the last thing it would draw you towards.

The only suggestion I can give is that perhaps, being in your early 20's, you refuse to accept what you are. Something, be it peers, family, upbringing, is keeping you in denial.

zag

you've never licked tarmac? You haven't lived mate.

Start with breeze blocks, and work your way up.

Rock Climber

Originally posted by zag

You're new life is only a step away, don't be afraid to explore, find out what it is inside you and go at it. Don't keep suppressing it.

Well said.
I happen to like both girls and lads and at the moment I'm with an older guy and the spark is something amazing

I could have given in to all the peer pressure, the fear of what my parents and brothers would say and all the rest, I took the gamble and haven't looked back.
You don't have to conform for the sake of making other people happy and ergo making yourself unhappy.
Lifes too short for that.

Confused original poster you should explore your relationship with yer man and see where it takes you.
Don't rule anything out and be yourself not what other people want you to be,it's not there life it's yours.
Oh and good luck!!

Zulu

I've been very drunk, many times in my life, and I've done some woefull things, but it's always been with women.

The guilt/dirtiness sound to me like a combination of good ould catholic ireland oppression coupled with the typical homophobia thats associated with the males in our society (I speak as a male suffereing from both of these).

You will probably get sounder advice/support in the GLB board. Are you saying no to this guy? or are you perfectly happy with this - when you're drunk?
This could (carefull now Zulu..) be an abuse case.

For what its worth - good luck

Rock Climber

Originally posted by Zulu

This could (carefull now Zulu..) be an abuse case.

Don't be so ridiculous.
you'll have half the adults in the country in jail if you apply that logic.

dub45

Ok, here goes.... I'm a guy in my early 20's and for sometime have been confused about my sexuality. Please note that I'm not posting this in the LGB fields as although I'm confused I don't consider myself gay. However, if mods think this should be moved then, go ahead and do so!

If you are confused it suggests that you have found yourself attracted to men and women. You say you do not consider yourself gay as if that was something wrong. Do you think that being attracted to a guy is 'wrong' ? Are you open to exploring your confusion with a view to coming to terms with whatever lies at the end of the exploraton?

I'm really starting to think this is getting out of hand. I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober, its always happened when I'm off my head on booze. Should this stop? How do I make it stop. I enjoy it at the time, but feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards. Could be be using me, keep in mind I'm always drunk.

What do you mean by geting out of hand? Why would you not do it when you were sober? what would stop you? guilt? morals? You make it stop by not meeting the guy and you know that very well but you choose not to do so - why? There are lots of guys that feel very guilty after sex you are certainly not alone in that. Guys have been known to get quite violent after sex and even attack the man they have been with (even wher they initiated the sex! Guilt and sex are often associated but that can be got over. do you ever think you might be using him? it is surely as logical a question as you asking is he using you?

This is playing on my mind too long, and I don't know who to turn to. I need to know what to do. I must also point out that he is a good 12 years or more older than me. I feel trapped everytimer, and helpless to fend him off. i find myself giving in (due to drink consumed).

What does it matter that he is 12 years older than you? Do you find something offensive about that? You are not helpless to fend him off. You are an adult who constantly puts himself in a postion of being drunk so as to have sex with another man that you enjoy at the time - how can you be helpless to fend him off?

What would you like people here to tell you? what are you hoping for in posting?

Would it be easier if people said oh yes an older man is taking advantage of you its really terrible and none of this is your fault? Or it appears that you have bisexual feeligs that you have not dealt with up till now. You have found a way (in my opinion its not a healthy way because of all the guilt it drags up) to have sex with a man. Now you need to take some time and sort out these feelings ( I would strongly suggest not having sex in this way purely because of the unhealthy way its happening) as some of the other posters have said maybe talk to a counsellor - try to be honest with yourself about your feelings. You are not alone in this by any means lots of people find it very hard to deal with any aspect of homsexulity but it can be done and needs to be done if you are to lead a healthy and fulfilled life. Remember we dont choose our sexuality - we discover it and the big question then is what we do with it!

Zulu

Originally posted by Rock Climber
Don't be so ridiculous.
you'll have half the adults in the country in jail if you apply that logic.

I used the word COULD for a reason. I don't know all the facts - neither do you.
What I do know...
The guy involved is older, and is probably respected by, and trusted by Confused.
That Confused is finding himself in very awkward positions, and left feeling very uncomfortable afterwards.
We don't know if he is initiating this. We don't know if he agrees to this. We do know he's not happy about it.

Imagine, your not gay. You are impressionable, insecure, and get on very well with an older bloke. You go out drinking and he takes advantage of you.

It's not ridiculous, I think you could be over reacting yourself. The possibility exists.

Zulu

Originally posted by Rock Climber
Confused original poster you should explore your relationship with yer man and see where it takes you.
Don't rule anything out and be yourself not what other people want you to be,it's not there life it's yours.
Oh and good luck!!

I would strongly disagree. (and that sounds a little ridiculous to me :dunno: )
I would never encourage someone to activly persue a relationship that makes them feel very uncomfortable.

Guilt is somthing entirly different though - there is NO reason to feel guilty (unless you are initiating these interactions, in which case, have a long hard look in the mirror).

That being said - I've never found myself denying my sexuality. It you are finding yourself attracted towards men (and wearing more and more pink ...joke- people relax) perhaps listen to Rock Climber. If you know your not attracted to men, put distance (and lots of) between you and him.

Rock Climber

Originally posted by Zulu
I used the word COULD for a reason. I don't know all the facts - neither do you.
What I do know...
The guy involved is older, and is probably respected by, and trusted by Confused.
That Confused is finding himself in very awkward positions, and left feeling very uncomfortable afterwards.

The guy is in his early 20's, a fully grown adult, he's not a teenager.
From his post he has clearly consented to what he does with this other man and clearly remembers what he has done.
He may have been drunk each time, but obviously not out of it
Despite feelings of guilt, he goes back for more.
That is not a definition of abuse by the older man,it's a coincidence of wants albeit with a toxic mix of societal guilt on the part of mr confused.

Chinafoot

Originally posted by Zulu
I used the word COULD for a reason. I don't know all the facts - neither do you.
What I do know...
The guy involved is older, and is probably respected by, and trusted by Confused.
That Confused is finding himself in very awkward positions, and left feeling very uncomfortable afterwards.
We don't know if he is initiating this. We don't know if he agrees to this. We do know he's not happy about it.

Imagine, your not gay. You are impressionable, insecure, and get on very well with an older bloke. You go out drinking and he takes advantage of you.

It's not ridiculous, I think you could be over reacting yourself. The possibility exists.

i think its fair enough to assume a case of abuse when you see words like "helpless to fend him off" and "feel trapped everytime"....yet i think in this case the poster is in serious denial. he says that he feels trapped yet before that he says how he enjoys it at the time. if this was abuse then why repeatedly put yourself in that position? you wouldnt.

confused,i agree with the others that you may be using alcohol as an excuse here. it seems like you see your actions as a bad thing, why else would you use being drunk as an excuse for them? you need to decide what it is you want. as cliched as it sounds you do need to be true to yourself regardless of what others think. also i would suggest talking to this man about whats happening between you.

i hope it all works out for you.

Zulu

Originally posted by Rock Climber
The guy is in his early 20's, a fully grown adult, he's not a teenager.
From his post he has clearly consented to what he does with this other man and clearly remembers what he has done.
He may have been drunk each time, but obviously not out of it
Despite feelings of guilt, he goes back for more.
That is not a definition of abuse by the older man,it's a coincidence of wants albeit with a toxic mix of societal guilt on the part of mr confused.

His age is beside the point. I didn't see the he clearly consented to what happened. You are assuming that he goes back for more - he mightn't be consenting to or initiating this at all. We don't know all the facts.
Perhaps the older guy is taking advantage of this guy. Perhaps this guys only social outlet is drinking with this man. We don't know all the facts - I'm mearly offering a possiability.

it's a coincidence of wants

how do you know it's wants? Perhaps it's not wants at all! In plenty of abuse cases the abusee goes back to the abuser, due to feelings of insecurity. I'm not saying this guy is abusing him. I'm say he COULD be abusing.

Honestly... don't be so defensive. :rolleyes:

seamus

Originally posted by Zulu
His age is beside the point. I didn't see the he clearly consented to what happened. You are assuming that he goes back for more - he mightn't be consenting to or initiating this at all. We don't know all the facts.
Perhaps the older guy is taking advantage of this guy. Perhaps this guys only social outlet is drinking with this man. We don't know all the facts - I'm mearly offering a possiability.

His age is completely the point. He's not an impressionable, innocent child. The other man's age is irrelevant. Unless you can prove that the other person premeditated rape (i.e. through rohypnol, or otherwise) or forced rape, then there's no possibility or cause for suspicion. If the other guy was both drinking and not forcing drinks down this guy's throat, it's same to assume that this thing just happened. I think by the very fact that the poster both fully remembers the sex and enjoys it, it's hardly rape or abuse.

ShriekingSheet

I've been reading down through this topic and especially judging from the guy's opening post I think Zulu definitely has a point. It's a possibility and can't be ruled out!

To the confused guy I'm trying to think up something to say that's better than 'do whatever makes you fell happy' but as lame as that is that's the best i can do!

ShriekingSheet

Originally posted by seamus
His age is completely the point. He's not an impressionable, innocent child. The other man's age is irrelevant. Unless you can prove that the other person premeditated rape (i.e. through rohypnol, or otherwise) or forced rape, then there's no possibility or cause for suspicion. If the other guy was both drinking and not forcing drinks down this guy's throat, it's same to assume that this thing just happened. I think by the very fact that the poster both fully remembers the sex and enjoys it, it's hardly rape or abuse.

I don't think RAPE or SERIOUS ABUSE is an issue here- I meant more like - there' a possibility the older guy is exploiting him!? If that makes more sense!?

seamus

Originally posted by ShriekingSheet
I've been reading down through this topic and especially judging from the guy's opening post I think Zulu definitely has a point. It's a possibility and can't be ruled out!

You can't be serious....
Imagine you're out one night with an older woman you know. You have a few drinks, one thing leads to another, and before you know it, you're in bed together. You feel quite dirty the next morning because she's older than you and the mother of a guy you're aquainted with. Yet the same thing happens the next 4 times, you enjoy it, yet your head is telling you it's wrong.
Is she at fault for taking advantage fo a drunk and confused young man?

Or is it the fact that the other party is male that's confusing the issue?



What happened to personal accountability? He's in his twenties ffs.

[Edit: Ah well, if it's an issue of exploitation, then it's a non-issue. As I say, personal accountability. If you allow yourself to be exploited......

Zulu

Originally posted by seamus
His age is completely the point. He's not an impressionable, innocent child. The other man's age is irrelevant.

A person can be impressionable and abused at any age.
The other mans age is irrelevant but it paints a picture.

Originally posted by seamus
Unless you can prove that the other person premeditated rape (i.e. through rohypnol, or otherwise) or forced rape, then there's no possibility or cause for suspicion.

1) I don't have to prove anything, I'm making suggestions.
2) It's evidently not forced rape or premeditated rape. I never mentioned rape. that's entirly your own invention.
3) Abuse dosen't equate to rape.


"getting out of hand", "I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober", "its always happened when I'm off my head on booze", "how do I make it stop", "feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards", "could be be using me", "I don't know who to turn to", "I feel trapped everytime", "helpless to fend him off", "i find myself giving in"

Ever hear the "she was asking for it!", "she wanted it!" argument?
Sounds like he's lovin' it. :rolleyes:

Zulu

Originally posted by ShriekingSheet
I don't think RAPE or SERIOUS ABUSE is an issue here- I meant more like - there' a possibility the older guy is exploiting him!? If that makes more sense!?

thats my point exactl; you're phrasing is a bit more subtle than my own.

Zulu

Originally posted by seamus
You can't be serious....
Imagine you're out one night with an older woman you know. You have a few drinks, one thing leads to another, and before you know it, you're in bed together. You feel quite dirty the next morning because she's older than you and the mother of a guy you're aquainted with. Yet the same thing happens the next 4 times, you enjoy it, yet your head is telling you it's wrong.
Is she at fault for taking advantage fo a drunk and confused young man?

Good point. But this guy claims he's not gay, so subsitute the mother above for the father, and suppose you don't enjoy it. Now where are you?

seamus

Originally posted by Zulu
"getting out of hand", "I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober", "its always happened when I'm off my head on booze", "how do I make it stop", "feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards", "could be be using me", "I don't know who to turn to", "I feel trapped everytime", "helpless to fend him off", "i find myself giving in"

That sounds like someone who's drunk and keeps going back to someone who's obviously not good for them, but provides them with some kind of satisfaction to me.

As I said, personal accountability. If it's not a case of rape or serious abuse, then the onus is on the poster. The other guy is going to exploit him if it's handed to him on a plate.

Good point. But this guy claims he's not gay, so subsitute the mother above for the father, and suppose you don't enjoy it. Now where are you?

But he does enjoy it. And he claims he's confused. He says he's not gay, but he's clearly bisexual at the very least.

D

Try going out without getting drunk to see if you still want to, like others said alcohol could be an excuse, and you could be in denial. However, if when you are sober and you don't want to do it then.... however, it might be that you are gay and that due to the social atmosphere that you grew up in you feel uncomfortable with homosexuals and insecure with your own sexuality.

ShriekingSheet

Originally posted by seamus
he's clearly bisexual at the very least.

percisely! We all knew this straight away... This is the answer to the post!

Me and Zulu were just taking a different potential angle...

Til you got on your high horse of maturity and played the 'accountability' card kidding!

ShriekingSheet

Originally posted by Zulu
Good point. But this guy claims he's not gay, so subsitute the mother above for the father, and suppose you don't enjoy it. Now where are you?

He's Gay!

ixoy

From my point of view, Confused sounds well... confused. Not abused however. It's as others have said, you can use drink to try and separate yourself from the moment, remove yourself from the experience. It's a great little crutch for a while - you can't be attracted to men because it only happens when drunk, so clearly it's the alcohol. Now as a one off that explanation might be okay, but when it's happened multiple times I think it's time to ask yourself a few questions: Why am I doing this? Have I really thought about being with guys before this if I'm honest with myself?
The trouble is, we're often our own greatest deceivers. I know I've done it in different forms (e.g.: I'm not gay, I just think that boy looks gorgeous...). Alcohol can strip us down to some of our most basic instincts or desires, which we often mask in our daily lives because we need to put on some costume to fit in. Now generally these desires aren't much, or that much different from what we normally present, but occasionally you'll find cases like Confused. It sounds very much to me like the release of latent thoughts, or desires operating on some level - the fact that it's reoccuring, for example. There is no evidence of abuse on the side of either party and the thread shouldn't be steered in that dangerous direction because, and it's important to realise, we don't want the original poster to further shun himself away from this new side of himself by telling himself that he didn't want it after all because it was forced on him. There's culpability here on two sides.
Confused while I respect your desire to keep this on PI, I think you may find some more relevant help on the Lesbian / Gay / Bisexual board where, incidentally, you don't have to be of any particular orientation to post. All are welcome

Ellesmere

Don't 'pidgeon hole' yourself, sexuality is on a continuum. Check out the 'Kinsey scale'. It is also transitional, it does not stay static throughout your life.

Kinsey scale and sexuality:

http://male101.com/edi/spectrum.html

Also check out this out:

http://www.lgbtcampus.org/resources/training/kinsey_scale.html

intresting statistics?

Beruthiel

Originally posted by ixoy
Confused while I respect your desire to keep this on PI, I think you may find some more relevant help on the Lesbian / Gay / Bisexual board where, incidentally, you don't have to be of any particular orientation to post. All are welcome

I agree
however, I will wait for Confused to comment on the suggestion

zag

Confused, are you still getting all this? Good.

Well I think it's simple, whatever about the rants on this board.

You may well be gay/bi-sexual. You need to come to terms with that. Counsellor may help.

Regardless of what others say, you are accountable for your own behaviour. You did not have to be in the pub, and you did not have to go home with him. There is no question of blame on him because you keep going back for more.

Mighty_Mouse

If your not gay, then why 4 times!!!! You cant blame it on drink after the first time surely?If you didnt want it surely you wouldnt walk home with him and pay for a taxi?

I think the GLF would be a better place to help you deal with coming out etc

Typedef

Maybe he's just experimenting at some subliminal level.

Maybe he'll find out he likes women 'and' men.

I don't see how it's any different him being with a man who uses him for sex and then blanks him or a woman who does the same thing.

Why exactly the mere mention of anything non-hetero should be stuffed away in the gay corner out of ... err the way of sensitive interweb trolls who, mightn't be able to handle the lurid connotations of bisexuality, where apparently Fine "were all right wing" Gael supports educating school children about homosexuality, I don't know.

LegacyUser

Sorry for not replying sooner, but I have been thinking about all your various replies (which I thank ye all for posting).

First off, of course this guy is not abusing me. I never suggested rape/abuse. I merely suggested that he was using me! But on reflection and taking into account everyones opinion I see that drink was the cause, i was certainly using it as a crutch.

Perhaps I don't need to put myself into this situation by going drinking with him, but i live in a small town, where most of my school friends have all parted from. this man is one of the few people I have to go out with (and no I'm not sying I'm some pathetic loner).

Its simply a case of me being confused and wanting it becuase I'm drunk each time. hence the repeated incidents. i know I wouldn't do it when sober, why? I guess its due to my upbringing and society itself.

i am now agreeing to take ixoy and Beruthiel suggestions on board, and allow this be posted under the GLB forum for further opinions.

Perhaps I'm bisexual... i know I'm not fully gay, as I have regularly been with women, although I've never had intercourse. Yes, I'm still virgin.

Thanks again.
Confused

Beruthiel

I'll move it over now Confused
best of luck
a

ixoy

Originally posted by Confused
Perhaps I don't need to put myself into this situation by going drinking with him, but i live in a small town, where most of my school friends have all parted from. this man is one of the few people I have to go out with (and no I'm not sying I'm some pathetic loner).

Well that's an interesting point. You say there's a limited circle of potential drinking partners and that appears to be true but is there maybe a little bit of you using this as yet another excuse for seeking this man out? "I'd not be with him if you could but, well, I have to make do", could be crossing your mind.

Its simply a case of me being confused and wanting it becuase I'm drunk each time. hence the repeated incidents. i know I wouldn't do it when sober, why? I guess its due to my upbringing and society itself.

And the last sentence is, to my mind, your most important realisation yet It's understand that society is, to a terrible level, about conformity. There's a notion in many people's head about what a gay person is, what a straight person is, and so forth. Within that there's often a degree of bias against people who don't fit the 100% hetro or 100% homo normals. There's a sense you have to be one or the other. You don't. You can find a degree between the two if you want, if it makes you happy. Noone has the right to dictate to you about how you express your sexuality when it's doing no harm to others. More importantly you shouldn't feel the need to limit yourself either.

Perhaps I'm bisexual... i know I'm not fully gay, as I have regularly been with women, although I've never had intercourse. Yes, I'm still virgin.

Maybe you're bisexual, maybe you're not. There's certainly no need to slap labels onto yourself yet, when you're not sure. There's no need really ever to have to force a label - that's merely a means to try and let other people understand you.

What you should now really try and concentrate on is breaking it down into simple terms, asking yourself simple questions and being very honest with yourself: Have you ever looked at a guy - sober - and found him attractive or cute? Have you thought about kissing a guy or, if you think about it now, how does it make you feel? Can you recall how you felt, emotionally, when you were with this man and what does the thought of being with him, or another, again make you feel like?

The answers aren't obvious and you can't expect to get them over night. I think you should start looking at them and see where it takes you.

dub45

Confused,

Lots of guys have a very difficult time in dealing with gay feelings not only when they first arise but ongoing. Dont think you are alone in this by any means but I know that at the same time that does not make it any easier. Also remember that who we sleep with or kiss or whatever does not define our sexuality. And most important we don't choose our sexuality we discover and its how we deal with that that is the most important thing.

ixoy has said above

The answers aren't obvious and you can't expect to get them over night. I think you should start looking at them and see where it takes you.

There is no easy answer now its up to you to explore yourself and whats inside you. it is important to try and deal with the guilt you feel and find out where its coming from - guilt can be very destructive. Often guys with homsexual feelings are very homophobic even to themselves - see if thats inside you too and ask yourself why? In dealing with any such feeling the first and most important person we have to come out to is ourselves. Self acceptance and self 'love' is very important in leading an emotionally healthy life.

You have begun a journey in posting here...............continuing it is up to you now but there is lots of support our there for you as you travel.

Boston

I’m going to go out on a limb here and argue the point that you’re not gay.

Right first off you’re obviously not that shag anything with a pulse type, given your age and the fact that you’re a virgin. That something I can respect and relate to, meaninglessly screwing around can be fun but it’s ultimately soul destroying and emotionally draining. You’re in a small town with limit social outlets to you. Probably a relatively small female population (i.e. they all know each other to a degree), even less that are actually worth getting involved with.
Now here’s a guy, by your own admission you can relate to, socialise with and get on pretty well with. I presume you’re comfortable around the guy, simply because you’re willing to get drunk with him, personally speaking that’s something I only do in a safe and comfortable environment, i.e. not around a sexual predictor. In turn this guy likes and is attracted to you, and clearly wants to be intimate with you. This type of attention is always flattering no matter what direction it comes from, and is abite of an ego boost. Sometimes you can’t help but think, god it would be so much feicing easier if you where gay. Here is this attractive guy and he’s also attracted to you. So out of desperation for some form of meaningful relationship with the anyone, you allow yourself to succumb and become something your not. And that’s where the temptation lies. If he was a girl, I don’t think this would be an issue, you wouldn’t be questioning your motives at all, and there would be no problem. Maybe it’s those same things that have kept you going back to the guy. Intimacy is about more then sex, it’s about companionship and trust, are you sure that’s not what you’re looking for in him.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for all the replies.

Boston, i think your input into this has been a very valid one.
It sums up exactly whats going on, I'm simply with this guy for nothing else other that the sheer comfort of being with somebody. I don't know if you'd call it a relationship, but we are "involved".

Its true to say that if this was a girl there wouldn't be a problem, but becuase it a member of the opposite sex i'm left baffled, confused, unable to sort things out in my head.

You really think, Boston, that I'm not gay? What then?

What would you do if your were in my situation? would you avoid this guy? Which is what I've done for the last few weeks. He must really be wondering whats up. But before I even try talk to him about it, I need to sort it out for myself.

Rock Climber

General rule of thumb.
never avoid anyone if ye both enjoy being with each other-the company like.
It's shouldn't matter what age they are or if they are a girl or boy.

If something romantic flows out of it and it's mutual then thats the time to decide whether you want to be truly happy or go pander to what some people in their ignorance think is wrong and consequently to please them and not yourself, you go the unhappy route.

Stick with what makes you happy and ask yourself the question is your guilt only out of fear of what straight society thinks and expects of you...
If it is and usually it is, I'd suggest you try to learn to ignore that and consider your self for a change

Boston

Well Personally I think everyone wants someone. Everybody what’s that, maybe not in a “you’re my soul partner, I love you way” but hell no one wants to be alone. Undercurrents of loneliness seem to run through your posts, maybe I picked up on that because I know what that feels like.

I don’t subscribe to a rigid definition of sexuality, nor do I believe one sexual encounter (i.e. one person) should define sexuality. I know plenty of gay guys that would classify themselves as being gay (not bi) who have had more experience with women then me. While you’re not the poster boy for red blooded hetro males, you’re hardly that for gays either.

Its true to say that if this was a girl there wouldn't be a problem, but becuase it a member of the opposite sex I’m left baffled, confused, unable to sort things out in my head.

Point I was making is that maybe its less that you’re attracted to him and maybe more what he represents, (security, comfort, easy access… ect) if that makes sense to you. You don’t have sufficient women around you to provide those things so you look else where.

As for you being gay, only you can define that, I can’t tell you one way or another. I’ve four close gay friends, basically nearly all my close friends just turned out to be gay. As for as I’m concerned though only one of them is actually gay, or experienced, removed and level headed enough to make an accurate assessment of that of what without letting morality or peer pressure influence him. First step is to be honest with yourself. Do you actually think you’re not gay or do you wish and hope that you’re not?

My advice would to be voice a lot of this with him, sober. Have it out with the guy in a non aggressive way, don’t accuse him of taken advantage, and don’t try to blame him. Fact is that he may be your best hope for figuring this out. Once you know you know, and that’s got to be a lot better then confusion and head games.