Stuck in a Moment....

LegacyUser

I'm a regular to boards.ie, but am going unregistered due to the nature of the topic.

Ok, here goes.... I'm a guy in my early 20's and for sometime have been confused about my sexuality. Please note that I'm not posting this in the LGB fields as although I'm confused I don't consider myself gay. However, if mods think this should be moved then, go ahead and do so!

Anyway, I used to work with this bloke who is also a neighbour for a few years, and since then we have remained pals. We regularly meet up for a few beers. This guy is actually in his mid 30's, but nonetheless we get on well.

Over a year ago, we were at a christmas do, and both of us got very drunk and before we knew it (without getting into too much detail) we started to get a little intimate while walking home. He kissed me, and before I knew it we were getting rather sexual. This happen on 4 other occassions since after a nights out on the beer. Each time I've been very drunk.

I'm really starting to think this is getting out of hand. I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober, its always happened when I'm off my head on booze. Should this stop? How do I make it stop. I enjoy it at the time, but feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards. Could be be using me, keep in mind I'm always drunk.

This is playing on my mind too long, and I don't know who to turn to. I need to know what to do. I must also point out that he is a good 12 years or more older than me. I feel trapped everytimer, and helpless to fend him off. i find myself giving in (due to drink consumed).

Please help!!!

Gordon

I really feel that this should be in the LGB forum mostly due to the letter B.

However if it is your intent on having this thread here then that's not a problem.

BuffyBot

Over a year ago, we were at a christmas do, and both of us got very drunk and before we knew it (without getting into too much detail) we started to get a little intimate while walking home. He kissed me, and before I knew it we were getting rather sexual. This happen on 4 other occassions since after a nights out on the beer. Each time I've been very drunk.

Hmmm. A rather simplistic view would be to not put yourself in a situation where you are drunk where he is present.

I'm really starting to think this is getting out of hand. I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober, its always happened when I'm off my head on booze. Should this stop? How do I make it stop. I enjoy it at the time, but feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards. Could be be using me, keep in mind I'm always drunk.

Do you want it to stop? Perhaps you are using your drunkenness as a crutch? A way to make excuses to yourself, making the guilty feelings you are having a little better?

You need to think about why you feel so guilty about what happens. In there, I think, lies the key to all this.

As for making it stop - well if you decide that you want it to stop, you will. As I said above, not getting yourself into a situation where you are drunk and in his presence is one way.

This is playing on my mind too long, and I don't know who to turn to. I need to know what to do. I must also point out that he is a good 12 years or more older than me. I feel trapped everytimer, and helpless to fend him off. i find myself giving in (due to drink consumed).

At the end of the day, this "relationship", if you can call it that, isn't a healthy one. Especially so if you are confused about your sexuality.

You probably need to cutr back on the drinking when he is around, and perhaps, if you are a bit more sober when he is around next say you do not want this to happen.

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Confused
I'm really starting to think this is getting out of hand. I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober, its always happened when I'm off my head on booze. Should this stop? How do I make it stop. I enjoy it at the time, but feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards. Could be be using me, keep in mind I'm always drunk.

is there any possibility that you could be in some denial here? Don't have a heart attack, I'm just wondering out loud so to speak....

I have been very, very drunk on one or two occasions in my life (no smartass comments please ) but have never not known what I will or won’t do.
Perhaps you do actually enjoy it and the drink just helps get rid of those voices in your head that make you think this is wrong. It isn’t you know, maybe that’s what you have to explore? I believe if this was truly something you absolutely did not want to do, you wouldn’t have gone drinking with him so many times since

zag

Dude, I' wondering the same thing as Beruth, could you be denying your natural urges?
I'm a hetrosexual male, and no matter how pi*sed I get, I would never snog or do anything sexual with a guy.

It sounds like you are attracted towards men, and when you are sober you suppress it. When you are drunk you have less inhibitions and barriers, and use the drink as an excuse to get what you really want.

It sounds like you have alot of accepting to do of yourself, perhaps you could be bi-sexual. I'm no expert on this topic, and I am judging the situation purely on what you have stated in your post.

There's no shame in talking to a counsellor about this, as it's a very sensitive matter for you, and you probably don't want to share it would others close to you.

I would go to a counsellor, it won't cost you that much, and work the problem out in there. From there you should have a better Idea of where you stand, and perhaps even come up with an action plan for the future.

You're new life is only a step away, don't be afraid to explore, find out what it is inside you and go at it. Don't keep suppressing it.

zag

At the end of the day, this "relationship", if you can call it that, isn't a healthy one. Especially so if you are confused about your sexuality.

Buffybot, no offence, but I think that this statement should be disregarded.

Confused, the reason I say this, is, me, being straight, if I were to have this exact same relationship with a woman, I would not consider it to be unhealthy. Albeit if you are confused, then in fairness, it can only lead the way to your self knowledge.
If you enjoy it, then you may well be attracted to men. There is nothing wrong with this. We are all products of our conditioning, our upbringing, family school, friends and peers. We end up in a mode where we think it is wrong, different and it's defintely not for me.

You are feeling guilt because your actions are going against what you were led to believe, by others and by your own image of yourself.

seamus

Yeah, my opinion would be pretty much what zag says.

You say you feel dirty afterwards, but go back and do it again anyway. That suggests to me that you do enjoy it, but something in your upbringing or in your own head is telling you that it's wrong. When you're drunk, you can't hear them.

As was said, I'm straight, and I never have, nor have even considered being with another man, regardless of how drunk I was. It would be slightly like getting down on all fours and licking the tarmac, I wouldn't do it, because it would make me sick, no matter how drunk I was.

The euphoria/relaxation that alcohol creates, draws you towards activities that you would enjoy. Hence sex, dancing, merriment. If it was making you depressed, sex is the last thing it would draw you towards.

The only suggestion I can give is that perhaps, being in your early 20's, you refuse to accept what you are. Something, be it peers, family, upbringing, is keeping you in denial.

zag

you've never licked tarmac? You haven't lived mate.

Start with breeze blocks, and work your way up.

Rock Climber

Originally posted by zag

You're new life is only a step away, don't be afraid to explore, find out what it is inside you and go at it. Don't keep suppressing it.

Well said.
I happen to like both girls and lads and at the moment I'm with an older guy and the spark is something amazing

I could have given in to all the peer pressure, the fear of what my parents and brothers would say and all the rest, I took the gamble and haven't looked back.
You don't have to conform for the sake of making other people happy and ergo making yourself unhappy.
Lifes too short for that.

Confused original poster you should explore your relationship with yer man and see where it takes you.
Don't rule anything out and be yourself not what other people want you to be,it's not there life it's yours.
Oh and good luck!!

Zulu

I've been very drunk, many times in my life, and I've done some woefull things, but it's always been with women.

The guilt/dirtiness sound to me like a combination of good ould catholic ireland oppression coupled with the typical homophobia thats associated with the males in our society (I speak as a male suffereing from both of these).

You will probably get sounder advice/support in the GLB board. Are you saying no to this guy? or are you perfectly happy with this - when you're drunk?
This could (carefull now Zulu..) be an abuse case.

For what its worth - good luck

Rock Climber

Originally posted by Zulu

This could (carefull now Zulu..) be an abuse case.

Don't be so ridiculous.
you'll have half the adults in the country in jail if you apply that logic.

dub45

Ok, here goes.... I'm a guy in my early 20's and for sometime have been confused about my sexuality. Please note that I'm not posting this in the LGB fields as although I'm confused I don't consider myself gay. However, if mods think this should be moved then, go ahead and do so!

If you are confused it suggests that you have found yourself attracted to men and women. You say you do not consider yourself gay as if that was something wrong. Do you think that being attracted to a guy is 'wrong' ? Are you open to exploring your confusion with a view to coming to terms with whatever lies at the end of the exploraton?

I'm really starting to think this is getting out of hand. I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober, its always happened when I'm off my head on booze. Should this stop? How do I make it stop. I enjoy it at the time, but feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards. Could be be using me, keep in mind I'm always drunk.

What do you mean by geting out of hand? Why would you not do it when you were sober? what would stop you? guilt? morals? You make it stop by not meeting the guy and you know that very well but you choose not to do so - why? There are lots of guys that feel very guilty after sex you are certainly not alone in that. Guys have been known to get quite violent after sex and even attack the man they have been with (even wher they initiated the sex! Guilt and sex are often associated but that can be got over. do you ever think you might be using him? it is surely as logical a question as you asking is he using you?

This is playing on my mind too long, and I don't know who to turn to. I need to know what to do. I must also point out that he is a good 12 years or more older than me. I feel trapped everytimer, and helpless to fend him off. i find myself giving in (due to drink consumed).

What does it matter that he is 12 years older than you? Do you find something offensive about that? You are not helpless to fend him off. You are an adult who constantly puts himself in a postion of being drunk so as to have sex with another man that you enjoy at the time - how can you be helpless to fend him off?

What would you like people here to tell you? what are you hoping for in posting?

Would it be easier if people said oh yes an older man is taking advantage of you its really terrible and none of this is your fault? Or it appears that you have bisexual feeligs that you have not dealt with up till now. You have found a way (in my opinion its not a healthy way because of all the guilt it drags up) to have sex with a man. Now you need to take some time and sort out these feelings ( I would strongly suggest not having sex in this way purely because of the unhealthy way its happening) as some of the other posters have said maybe talk to a counsellor - try to be honest with yourself about your feelings. You are not alone in this by any means lots of people find it very hard to deal with any aspect of homsexulity but it can be done and needs to be done if you are to lead a healthy and fulfilled life. Remember we dont choose our sexuality - we discover it and the big question then is what we do with it!

Zulu

Originally posted by Rock Climber
Don't be so ridiculous.
you'll have half the adults in the country in jail if you apply that logic.

I used the word COULD for a reason. I don't know all the facts - neither do you.
What I do know...
The guy involved is older, and is probably respected by, and trusted by Confused.
That Confused is finding himself in very awkward positions, and left feeling very uncomfortable afterwards.
We don't know if he is initiating this. We don't know if he agrees to this. We do know he's not happy about it.

Imagine, your not gay. You are impressionable, insecure, and get on very well with an older bloke. You go out drinking and he takes advantage of you.

It's not ridiculous, I think you could be over reacting yourself. The possibility exists.

Zulu

Originally posted by Rock Climber
Confused original poster you should explore your relationship with yer man and see where it takes you.
Don't rule anything out and be yourself not what other people want you to be,it's not there life it's yours.
Oh and good luck!!

I would strongly disagree. (and that sounds a little ridiculous to me :dunno: )
I would never encourage someone to activly persue a relationship that makes them feel very uncomfortable.

Guilt is somthing entirly different though - there is NO reason to feel guilty (unless you are initiating these interactions, in which case, have a long hard look in the mirror).

That being said - I've never found myself denying my sexuality. It you are finding yourself attracted towards men (and wearing more and more pink ...joke- people relax) perhaps listen to Rock Climber. If you know your not attracted to men, put distance (and lots of) between you and him.

Rock Climber

Originally posted by Zulu
I used the word COULD for a reason. I don't know all the facts - neither do you.
What I do know...
The guy involved is older, and is probably respected by, and trusted by Confused.
That Confused is finding himself in very awkward positions, and left feeling very uncomfortable afterwards.

The guy is in his early 20's, a fully grown adult, he's not a teenager.
From his post he has clearly consented to what he does with this other man and clearly remembers what he has done.
He may have been drunk each time, but obviously not out of it
Despite feelings of guilt, he goes back for more.
That is not a definition of abuse by the older man,it's a coincidence of wants albeit with a toxic mix of societal guilt on the part of mr confused.

Chinafoot

Originally posted by Zulu
I used the word COULD for a reason. I don't know all the facts - neither do you.
What I do know...
The guy involved is older, and is probably respected by, and trusted by Confused.
That Confused is finding himself in very awkward positions, and left feeling very uncomfortable afterwards.
We don't know if he is initiating this. We don't know if he agrees to this. We do know he's not happy about it.

Imagine, your not gay. You are impressionable, insecure, and get on very well with an older bloke. You go out drinking and he takes advantage of you.

It's not ridiculous, I think you could be over reacting yourself. The possibility exists.

i think its fair enough to assume a case of abuse when you see words like "helpless to fend him off" and "feel trapped everytime"....yet i think in this case the poster is in serious denial. he says that he feels trapped yet before that he says how he enjoys it at the time. if this was abuse then why repeatedly put yourself in that position? you wouldnt.

confused,i agree with the others that you may be using alcohol as an excuse here. it seems like you see your actions as a bad thing, why else would you use being drunk as an excuse for them? you need to decide what it is you want. as cliched as it sounds you do need to be true to yourself regardless of what others think. also i would suggest talking to this man about whats happening between you.

i hope it all works out for you.

Zulu

Originally posted by Rock Climber
The guy is in his early 20's, a fully grown adult, he's not a teenager.
From his post he has clearly consented to what he does with this other man and clearly remembers what he has done.
He may have been drunk each time, but obviously not out of it
Despite feelings of guilt, he goes back for more.
That is not a definition of abuse by the older man,it's a coincidence of wants albeit with a toxic mix of societal guilt on the part of mr confused.

His age is beside the point. I didn't see the he clearly consented to what happened. You are assuming that he goes back for more - he mightn't be consenting to or initiating this at all. We don't know all the facts.
Perhaps the older guy is taking advantage of this guy. Perhaps this guys only social outlet is drinking with this man. We don't know all the facts - I'm mearly offering a possiability.

it's a coincidence of wants

how do you know it's wants? Perhaps it's not wants at all! In plenty of abuse cases the abusee goes back to the abuser, due to feelings of insecurity. I'm not saying this guy is abusing him. I'm say he COULD be abusing.

Honestly... don't be so defensive. :rolleyes:

seamus

Originally posted by Zulu
His age is beside the point. I didn't see the he clearly consented to what happened. You are assuming that he goes back for more - he mightn't be consenting to or initiating this at all. We don't know all the facts.
Perhaps the older guy is taking advantage of this guy. Perhaps this guys only social outlet is drinking with this man. We don't know all the facts - I'm mearly offering a possiability.

His age is completely the point. He's not an impressionable, innocent child. The other man's age is irrelevant. Unless you can prove that the other person premeditated rape (i.e. through rohypnol, or otherwise) or forced rape, then there's no possibility or cause for suspicion. If the other guy was both drinking and not forcing drinks down this guy's throat, it's same to assume that this thing just happened. I think by the very fact that the poster both fully remembers the sex and enjoys it, it's hardly rape or abuse.

ShriekingSheet

I've been reading down through this topic and especially judging from the guy's opening post I think Zulu definitely has a point. It's a possibility and can't be ruled out!

To the confused guy I'm trying to think up something to say that's better than 'do whatever makes you fell happy' but as lame as that is that's the best i can do!

ShriekingSheet

Originally posted by seamus
His age is completely the point. He's not an impressionable, innocent child. The other man's age is irrelevant. Unless you can prove that the other person premeditated rape (i.e. through rohypnol, or otherwise) or forced rape, then there's no possibility or cause for suspicion. If the other guy was both drinking and not forcing drinks down this guy's throat, it's same to assume that this thing just happened. I think by the very fact that the poster both fully remembers the sex and enjoys it, it's hardly rape or abuse.

I don't think RAPE or SERIOUS ABUSE is an issue here- I meant more like - there' a possibility the older guy is exploiting him!? If that makes more sense!?

seamus

Originally posted by ShriekingSheet
I've been reading down through this topic and especially judging from the guy's opening post I think Zulu definitely has a point. It's a possibility and can't be ruled out!

You can't be serious....
Imagine you're out one night with an older woman you know. You have a few drinks, one thing leads to another, and before you know it, you're in bed together. You feel quite dirty the next morning because she's older than you and the mother of a guy you're aquainted with. Yet the same thing happens the next 4 times, you enjoy it, yet your head is telling you it's wrong.
Is she at fault for taking advantage fo a drunk and confused young man?

Or is it the fact that the other party is male that's confusing the issue?



What happened to personal accountability? He's in his twenties ffs.

[Edit: Ah well, if it's an issue of exploitation, then it's a non-issue. As I say, personal accountability. If you allow yourself to be exploited......

Zulu

Originally posted by seamus
His age is completely the point. He's not an impressionable, innocent child. The other man's age is irrelevant.

A person can be impressionable and abused at any age.
The other mans age is irrelevant but it paints a picture.

Originally posted by seamus
Unless you can prove that the other person premeditated rape (i.e. through rohypnol, or otherwise) or forced rape, then there's no possibility or cause for suspicion.

1) I don't have to prove anything, I'm making suggestions.
2) It's evidently not forced rape or premeditated rape. I never mentioned rape. that's entirly your own invention.
3) Abuse dosen't equate to rape.


"getting out of hand", "I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober", "its always happened when I'm off my head on booze", "how do I make it stop", "feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards", "could be be using me", "I don't know who to turn to", "I feel trapped everytime", "helpless to fend him off", "i find myself giving in"

Ever hear the "she was asking for it!", "she wanted it!" argument?
Sounds like he's lovin' it. :rolleyes:

Zulu

Originally posted by ShriekingSheet
I don't think RAPE or SERIOUS ABUSE is an issue here- I meant more like - there' a possibility the older guy is exploiting him!? If that makes more sense!?

thats my point exactl; you're phrasing is a bit more subtle than my own.

Zulu

Originally posted by seamus
You can't be serious....
Imagine you're out one night with an older woman you know. You have a few drinks, one thing leads to another, and before you know it, you're in bed together. You feel quite dirty the next morning because she's older than you and the mother of a guy you're aquainted with. Yet the same thing happens the next 4 times, you enjoy it, yet your head is telling you it's wrong.
Is she at fault for taking advantage fo a drunk and confused young man?

Good point. But this guy claims he's not gay, so subsitute the mother above for the father, and suppose you don't enjoy it. Now where are you?

seamus

Originally posted by Zulu
"getting out of hand", "I know for a fact that I would not do this if I were sober", "its always happened when I'm off my head on booze", "how do I make it stop", "feel every so guilty and dirty afterwards", "could be be using me", "I don't know who to turn to", "I feel trapped everytime", "helpless to fend him off", "i find myself giving in"

That sounds like someone who's drunk and keeps going back to someone who's obviously not good for them, but provides them with some kind of satisfaction to me.

As I said, personal accountability. If it's not a case of rape or serious abuse, then the onus is on the poster. The other guy is going to exploit him if it's handed to him on a plate.

Good point. But this guy claims he's not gay, so subsitute the mother above for the father, and suppose you don't enjoy it. Now where are you?

But he does enjoy it. And he claims he's confused. He says he's not gay, but he's clearly bisexual at the very least.

D

Try going out without getting drunk to see if you still want to, like others said alcohol could be an excuse, and you could be in denial. However, if when you are sober and you don't want to do it then.... however, it might be that you are gay and that due to the social atmosphere that you grew up in you feel uncomfortable with homosexuals and insecure with your own sexuality.

ShriekingSheet

Originally posted by seamus
he's clearly bisexual at the very least.

percisely! We all knew this straight away... This is the answer to the post!

Me and Zulu were just taking a different potential angle...

Til you got on your high horse of maturity and played the 'accountability' card kidding!

ShriekingSheet

Originally posted by Zulu
Good point. But this guy claims he's not gay, so subsitute the mother above for the father, and suppose you don't enjoy it. Now where are you?

He's Gay!

ixoy

From my point of view, Confused sounds well... confused. Not abused however. It's as others have said, you can use drink to try and separate yourself from the moment, remove yourself from the experience. It's a great little crutch for a while - you can't be attracted to men because it only happens when drunk, so clearly it's the alcohol. Now as a one off that explanation might be okay, but when it's happened multiple times I think it's time to ask yourself a few questions: Why am I doing this? Have I really thought about being with guys before this if I'm honest with myself?
The trouble is, we're often our own greatest deceivers. I know I've done it in different forms (e.g.: I'm not gay, I just think that boy looks gorgeous...). Alcohol can strip us down to some of our most basic instincts or desires, which we often mask in our daily lives because we need to put on some costume to fit in. Now generally these desires aren't much, or that much different from what we normally present, but occasionally you'll find cases like Confused. It sounds very much to me like the release of latent thoughts, or desires operating on some level - the fact that it's reoccuring, for example. There is no evidence of abuse on the side of either party and the thread shouldn't be steered in that dangerous direction because, and it's important to realise, we don't want the original poster to further shun himself away from this new side of himself by telling himself that he didn't want it after all because it was forced on him. There's culpability here on two sides.
Confused while I respect your desire to keep this on PI, I think you may find some more relevant help on the Lesbian / Gay / Bisexual board where, incidentally, you don't have to be of any particular orientation to post. All are welcome

Ellesmere

Don't 'pidgeon hole' yourself, sexuality is on a continuum. Check out the 'Kinsey scale'. It is also transitional, it does not stay static throughout your life.

Kinsey scale and sexuality:

http://male101.com/edi/spectrum.html

Also check out this out:

http://www.lgbtcampus.org/resources/training/kinsey_scale.html

intresting statistics?

Beruthiel

Originally posted by ixoy
Confused while I respect your desire to keep this on PI, I think you may find some more relevant help on the Lesbian / Gay / Bisexual board where, incidentally, you don't have to be of any particular orientation to post. All are welcome

I agree
however, I will wait for Confused to comment on the suggestion