Outcast heroes: the story of gay Muslims

Jpaulik

http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=395

Choice cuts from it:

Sheikh Sharkhawy, a cleric at the prestigious London Central Mosque in Regent's Park, compares homosexuality to a "cancer tumor." He argues "we must burn all gays to prevent pedophilia and the spread of AIDS," and says gay people "have no hope of a spiritual life." The Muslim Educational Trust hands out educational material to Muslim teachers — intended for children! — advocating the death penalty for gay people, and advising Muslim pupils to stay away from gay classmates and teachers.

But some gay people like Ali have begun to contest this reading of Islam. There have been a small number of groups for gay Muslims over the past 20 years, and their history is not encouraging. A San Francisco-based group called the Lavender Crescent Society sent five members to Iran in 1979 after the Islamic revolution there to spur an Iranian gay movement. They were taken straight from the airport to a remote spot and shot dead.

ixoy

Walter Ego, curb the humor and assumptions please. The forum can deal with sensitivie issues and it's easy to appear inflammatory. Now since you're familiar with Islam, apparently, can you tell me truly that it's as bad as you make it out?

Stark

Deleted comments from thread.

Any more talk of camel love or other such muppetry will get the poster a week's ban.

Yoda

Wikipedia has some fairly good pages on Buddhist, Christian, Islamic, Jewish, and Neopagan views of homosexuality.

Big Ears

Originally posted by Stark
Deleted comments from thread.

Any more talk of camel love or other such muppetry will get the poster a week's ban.

A week ban from this forum or all forums ?

Hagar

Can somebody explain to me the thrust of this thread.

What is heroic about being a gay muslim?

ixoy

Originally posted by Hagar
Can somebody explain to me the thrust of this thread.

What is heroic about being a gay muslim?

What's heroic is going about attempting to lead a gay lifestlye, in some form or another, in a culture that may condone your choice of sexuality with a long stay in prison or death. I call that heroic, don't you? Standing up for your rights?

ixoy

Originally posted by Big Ears
A week ban from this forum or all forums ?

This forum obviously. It relates to this forum. If you're interested in pursuing go check out the relevant thread in Bickering/Suggestion, otherwise keep this thread on topic and let's stop other crap mucking it up.

Hagar

In the culture in which those people live, homosexuality is against both the law of the land and the law of their church. Whether you or I agree with the laws as they stand is immaterial. It does not make them heroes just because they break the law. These people are criminals. Should we glorify criminals?

ixoy

Originally posted by Hagar
In the culture in which those people live, homosexuality is against both the law of the land and the law of their church. Whether you or I agree with the laws as they stand is immaterial. It does not make them heroes just because they break the law. These people are criminals. Should we glorify criminals?

And awhile back you, assuming you're a good Irish Christian, would've been subject to being seen as a lesser individual by the state. That too would have been the law of the land. If you had been of the brave few to try and change things, would you want to be so nastily condemned as a criminal?
Hell let's talk your attitude to everything. If something's against the law, then let's not try and shift anyone's attitude. Let's reverse the law. C'mon everybody - slavery wasn't so bad was it? Let's put those colored folk in their place. It was the law of the land! Hey do women REALLY need to vote? Let's remove it! It was the law of the land! Hey women are classified as lesser beings by the Church - let's return to that way! It's what the Church said.
So it's not about glorifying, it's about respecting people who have the courage of their convictions to stand up against a repressive ideology that condemns people for being who they are. What doesn't stand up is your post, filled with the cold dispassionate rhetoric of someone who is lucky enough to live in a world built for the hetrosexual male. What a charming person you come across as.

Hagar

Isn't that assumptions and sarcasm, a poor form of humour.
I hope you don't get banned for that.
Being charming has never worried me much one way or the other.

ixoy

Originally posted by Hagar
Isn't that assumptions and sarcasm, a poor form of humour.
I hope you don't get banned for that.
Being charming has never worried me much one way or the other.

I'm unlikely to get banned...
Care to actually address the points?

Hagar

Originally posted by ixoy
I'm unlikely to get banned...

So its one set of rules for you and another set of rules for Walter Ego.
It must be nice to be above the law.

It seems laws, rules and social conventions don't rate highly in your scheme of things.

If these people perceive the laws in their country to be unjust
they must get the law changed or leave the country.

What was the purpose of the original post anyway?
Was it so we would all agree and say "That's terrible"?
Did you intend to entertain different viewpoints or did you just expect everyone to bolster up your view on life?

BuffyBot

In the culture in which those people live, homosexuality is against both the law of the land and the law of their church. Whether you or I agree with the laws as they stand is immaterial. It does not make them heroes just because they break the law. These people are criminals. Should we glorify criminals?

I wonder were you reading the same article I was?

The first example is about a UK citizen. So homosexuality was illegal there, or just against the (percieved) tenets of his religion? The same applies to the guy who lived in Connecticut?

They aren't criminals in the eyes of the law. Or perhaps you think religious law should be the law of the land? That is hardly a good idea now, is it?

Jpaulik

Originally posted by Hagar

What was the purpose of the original post anyway?

Yeah shame on having a Homosexuality themed article on an LGB forum ! What's next , someone asking for advice about coming out ?

I would have thought it was an insight into the lives of people who are also gay but come from a different culture.

Stark

Hagar, consider this a warning.

ixoy

Originally posted by Hagar
So its one set of rules for you and another set of rules for Walter Ego.
It must be nice to be above the law.

What are you prattling on about? My post raised valid points about what was previously considered socially correct, either religiously or according to the law. Events that were changed through activisim of some form or another. It was completely relevant to the point. Walter Ego's joke was not. If you can't distinguish the difference between the two....

It seems laws, rules and social conventions don't rate highly in your scheme of things.

If these people perceive the laws in their country to be unjust
they must get the law changed or leave the country.

Excuse me but you're advocating they try and change the law and yet that same law you ask me to respect prevents them changing it...How are they supposed to cause this social change if you agree with them being imprisoned for their rights?

Also if Ireland were tomorrow to rescind some rights, say suffrage, would you support it as the law of the land? Would you think it should be contested? Just because something is law doesn't always make it right, when it's the context of human rights. If that lone black girl had not made the brave decision to NOT give up her seat to some pompous white woman, who knows where black civil liberties would be in the U.S.?

What was the purpose of the original post anyway?
Was it so we would all agree and say "That's terrible"?
Did you intend to entertain different viewpoints or did you just expect everyone to bolster up your view on life?

It's so we could have a bit of debate. All you've done so far is basically say "I agree" and failed to back up your assertions with any form of argument, particularly when points are made to you that you fail to address.

Stark

Locking this thread, it's attracting nothing but troll scum.