Debate: Anarchy

Liquorice

I feel like discussing something so...anarchy, because I'm sure people have varied opinions about it.

It is natural for human beings, and some other animals, to have an 'alpha' of some sort. A lot of animals who go aruond in packs, flocks etc. have a leader. The early humans normally had leaders. They also have been discovered to have worshipped gods, showing that they looked for an authority figure or a guide, tangible or not.

Anarchy would never work in human society. Without a leader or 'alpha-figure' of some sort, there is no limit set down on what people can do. The human race's selfish, greedy traits would shine through and chaos would be the result. Everyone would be hurt except the strongest people. Some people argue that in an anarchic society we would be free to do, say and think what we pleased, that we would be free from laws preventing free speech and we would not be forced to think a certain way. Tell me that when some skangers who have taken a disliking to you have set your house alight and you're lying face down in your back garden taking a beating. Tell me that we're free to think what we wish when you are forced to adopt a violent and inconsiderate attitude to survive in a chaotic society. Tell me that we can say what we wish when you're afraid to voice your opinions because you could be attacked because of them.

Now, we can complain about governments, authority etc. as much as we want, but although there are some corrupt people in power, there are some decent, honest people too who are not in politics, police forces etc. for the glory. They are there to protect us and look after our needs.

In short, it is human nature to have an authority figure of some sort. Even though we can all think and act on our own, we do need a guide of some sort to prevent us from causing chaos and hurting others(which is what will undoubtedly happen in an anarchic society of us selfish, greedy, intolerant humans),be it a parent, police officer or prime minister.

nosmo

I AM AN aNTICHrIst!!
:rolleyes:

Continue ad nauseum.

However, my take on it is.. If we could completely eliminate the concept of leaders and leadership, things would be great. Try doing that. You'll run out of bullets in a few days

Outcast

You're right about the whole leadership thing. The fact of the matter is that the majority of people are dumbasses and need someone to tell tham what to do (the fact that Bertie Ahern is telling us what to do is somewhat worrying). However if the leader is a teacher don't go throwing books at them. I tried it today and it didn't turn out so well...

Barry Aldwell

Oh great Hugh, I tried to load that broken image, and it made my computer search for "anarchy". Thanks, now I'm gonna get arrested.

Oh yeah, posting something on topic. I like things the way they are. Don't change anything.

article6

Anarchy: The most mis-used term in modern politics. According to the bien pensants, it is a state of great civil freedoms with no private property and no leaders. More accurately, anarchy is a state of 'each for oneself' in society, with great economic and social freedoms and few government powers - the natural result of libertarianism. The most anarchic group in Irish politics would be the Progressive Democrats, creid é nó ná creid.

Though things could be better in the modern world, the solution is not no government. The solution is better government.

gigglingrat

According to the bien pensants, it is a state of great civil freedoms with no private property and no leaders.

Isn't that what the Hippies were trying to do? And look what happened to them! They're all old or dead!

But anyway, I think that if people were allowed do what ever they wanted, the first thing there would do would be to appoint a leader to tell them what to do. We're all too lazy to do our own thing.

ll=llannah

the Hippies were trying to do? And look what happened to them! They're all old or dead!

now, now. be careful or they won't share their drugs with you. i mean . . . hugs and flowy one-size-fits-all rainbow clothing and flowers and multi-colored sketchy vans.
(*newsflash*GENERALIZATION*newsflash*)

and, as far as this topic is concerned:

"Democracy is the worst form of government . . . except for all the others." - Winston Spencer Churchill

that is all.

not that i know random churchill quotes by heart...

Liquorice

On the subject of Churchill quotes...

"Winston, you're drunk."
"Yes, I am, madam, and you are ugly. But in the morning I shall be sober."

"Mr. Churchill, if you were my husband, I would put poison in your tea."
"Madam, if you were my wife, I'd put it there myself."

Barry Aldwell

Oh, it's on

"We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France. We shall fight on the seas and oceans. We shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches. We shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields and in the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all it's power and might, steps forth to the rescue and liberation of the old"
- from a speech by Churchill, 4th June 1940

"Young man, you did a very fine thing to give up a most promising career to fight for your country. Mrk you, had you not done so, it would have been despicable"
- Winston Churchill to David Niven

"Don't talk to me about Naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash."
- Winston Churchill to the Board of Admiralty, 1939

ll=llannah

"It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations"
- Winston Churchill

"We are happier in many ways when we are old than when we were young. The young sow wild oats. The old grow sage."
- Winston Churchill

"I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me."
- Winston Churchill

"Always remember, a cat looks down on man, a dog looks up to man, but a pig will look man right in the eye and see his equal."
- Winston Churchill

i'll stop now, i guess.

on the subject of history (vague link, i know) guess who i ran into yesterday? the T.A. for International History from session 1 of last summer. which is weird...cause i live in new york. he says hi to the vague population of ctyidom.

gigglingrat

Hehe this is fun!

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

A sheep in sheep's clothing (On Clement Atlee)

A modest man, who has much to be modest about (On Clement Atlee)

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

An empty taxi arrived at 10 Downing Street, and when the door was opened, Atlee got out.

An old proverb there is, and that most true--a living dog is better than a dead lion.

After he had narrowly escaped a bomb attack during the London Blitz: "Our Labour colleagues [in the Cabinet] facetiously remarked: 'The devil looks after his own'"

"Every dog has his day, and I have kept these [very heavy guns] for a quarter of a century in the hope that they would have their chance".

Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which we will not put.

Golf is a game who's aim it is to hit a very small ball into an even smaller hole with weapons singularly ill-designed for the purpose.

History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught.

I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.

I'm just preparing my impromptu remarks.

I comforted myself by the old German saying: 'The trees do not grow up to the sky.'

If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.

It is well said, there is nothing wrong in change if it is in the right direction.

Mr. Chamberlain loves the working man, he loves to see him work.

Mr. Gladstone read Homer for fun, which I thought served him right

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives.

The problems of victory are more agreeable than the problems of defeat, but they are no less difficult.

There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result.

We should have felt more confidence in the success of our policy. We should have seen that he [Hitler] risked falling between two stools.

What could you hope to achieve except to be sunk in a bigger and more expensive ship this time (On Admiral Mountbatten )

When I am abroad I always make it a rule never to criticize or attack the Government of my country. I make up for lost time when I am at home.

When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.

This report, by its very length, defends itself against the risk of being read


All me, as quoted by Winston C.

purplepolkadot

we need leaders like in fairness. all the anarchy hippie stuff is usually done in a very teenagery way. even those communist things (sorry it's late and words elude me) have leaders for a while that they swop round or whatever. i'm sure everyone doesn't get a go as leader.
god you can spot the oul' talentedyouthness right there can't ya

It wasn't me!

I can't see a pure form of any idealogy working to be honest. I mean, with capitalism people are dying of starvation because they're so poor, while there are people living in luxury with enough money to keep thousands of people alive who are going to die. Communism doesn't work because human nature won't allow it to. We're all trying to be better and richer than everyone else, which is again always going to lead to a class difference just like with capitalism. Anarchy can't work for the same reason: human nature. In theory it means a perfect society, where there are no rules or leaders because they aren't needed; everyone can co-exist happily. Human nature however makes us think, "Wait a minute..... If there are no laws, what's to stop me going over there, cutting that guy's throat and robbing him blind?" which this person will inevitably do.

Nothing works in its purest form. Everything needs to be mixed into one big system in order for it to work. Elements of communism because there's no point certain people having more money than they could ever have any use for while others are dying in the gutter because they can't afford a slice of bread. Elements of capitalism to satisfy greedy human nature because people will never be equal because they don't want to be. Even in the communist states certain people always controlled more power and money than others. There needs to be a certain amount of anarchy in the mix so that ordinary people do actually have control. Society of today shows that this policy of so-called "free speech" we claim to have doesn't really exist. Corporate censorship for profit and personal gain is wrong. Such as when photographs of dead American soldiers were released on the internet, the photographer was banned for life from ever publishing photographs again, with Bush citing "A disrespect to the dead soldiers and their families". However, as much as I dislike Bush, he has one quality that is necessary in any society, as human beings will always look for it: he is an extremely strong leader. Possibly the only reason he has any support in America at all. It is however a fact that humans will always look to a symbolic leader for guidance in times of need and Bush, although not necessarily a good leader, is a strong one.

That's what society really needs in order to continue in any degree of harmony, but I have no illusions that it will ever be attained.

gigglingrat

It Wasn't Me's eloquency shames me.:(
I say capitalism = good, but not perfect (just like me!)
Communism = nice idea, shame bout the whole it not working.
And Anarchy.... *shudder*

purplepolkadot

yeah. what she said.

Aliminator

I've been away for a bit. time for a good rant.

(i'm also grrrrr'd at having to leave italy)


If anarchy is defined as: 'the absence of any guiding or uniting principle,' then our dear friend Capitalsim is the true 'system' of anarchy:

I believe that the destroyer of all civilisations (our guiding or uniting principle) is the individuals pursuit of excess at the expense of the soceity. It destroyed the romans (politicians wanted ablsolute power to the detriment of 'democracy'); the french prior to the revolution, the nobility and monarchy anyway, certainly pursued excesses at the expense of the french civilisation.

since capitalism is based upon the individuals greed and lust of seriously excessive amounts of money (the so-called 'dream') to the destruction of all else.

so, in brief and ill-equipped summation: as captialism is the true system of anarchy, i would reject current soceity as having the authority figure mentioned below:

Quote Liquorice:

"In short, it is human nature to have an authority figure of some sort. Even though we can all think and act on our own, we do need a guide of some sort to prevent us from causing chaos and hurting others(which is what will undoubtedly happen in an anarchic society of us selfish, greedy, intolerant humans),be it a parent, police officer or prime minister."




and also:

"Anarchy would never work in human society. Without a leader or 'alpha-figure' of some sort, there is no limit set down on what people can do. The human race's selfish, greedy traits would shine through and chaos would be the result. Everyone would be hurt except the strongest people."

this is working at the moment. it's called the WTO and G8+, and the people hoarding oil (not opec, some lousy POS heads of MNC's) driving prices sky high.

tibilt

what would work really well is if the entire population was sterilized so that after this generation humans would dissapear and the planet could have a chance to live without the malignant infection of humanity in all of its self-righteous forms. a perfect world.

nosmo

Originally posted by tibilt
what would work really well is if the entire population was sterilized so that after this generation humans would dissapear and the planet could have a chance to live without the malignant infection of humanity in all of its self-righteous forms. a perfect world.

"Ah... this looks like an easy one..."

Could I interest you in a FREE dianetics test?"

tibilt

why?

gigglingrat

Well...isn't the whole point of life to promote your genes? Ya can hardly do that if ur sterile. Life suddenly has no point. Remember people: a fertile imagination is no compinsation for vasectomy....:D

It wasn't me!

A couple of weeks ago I had this idea of breeding humanity to empathy. You could introduce degrees of empathy by generation until after a few generations, it would become part of human nature to be empathic towards all others. After a few more, it could become the very basis of human nature. Then, and only then, could anarchy work in a pure form. But again, something tells me Bertie's not going to give me Roscommon (Because lets face it) to experiment with. And therefore my genius will never be known.

On a side note. If the entire point of life is to pass on your genes, I never would have been born with the mentality that I have. I have no intentions of having kids. It'd be cruel to do that to a baby!

gigglingrat

I dont intend having kids, but what happens happens.