UPS Ripoff (Unbelievable)

Bartleby

Hello,

Quick Summary:

To receive DVDs valued at EUR18, I'm being charged EUR13 by the Govt. and EUR15 by UPS (On top of the EUR16 I already paid them to deliver the DVDs in the first place!)

Here's how it goes:

I ordered 2 dvds from a site in Canada. I wanted them fast as one of the DVDs was a present for a friend, so I got them sent by UPS. They arrived today. I wasn't there, so UPS left me a bill for EUR28.40.

I called UPS and asked for a cost breakdown:

VAT 11.23
Duty 1.80
Other Charges: 12.70
Total: 25.73
+VAT on 12.70: 2.67

Total Amount Due: EUR 28.40

I should point out that the DVDs were valued at EUR18.21!!!!!

I asked for more detail:

=> VAT EUR11.23

Value of package: 18.21
Freight Value: 33.50
Total Value: 51.71
+Duty@3.5%: 1.80

Total Value Of Package : 53.51

VAT on 53.51 @ 21% = 11.23

[I asked where they got the Frieght Value of EUR33.50 and they said that the freight value wasn't marked on the package so they estimated a standard value based on the weight of the package which came to EUR 33.50. The actual cost was EUR16.84]


=>Duty EUR1.80

I don't have a problem with this.


=>Other Charges EUR12.70

Whaaat!!!!! UPS are charging me EUR15 (12.70 +2.67 VAT) to tell me that I have to pay EUR11 in VAT!!!!

"Thats Correct"

They said the EUR12.70 was a standard UPS processing charge for goods valued under EUR600.

So here we are again:

To receive DVDs valued at EUR18, I'm being charged EUR13 by the Govt. and EUR15 by UPS (On top of the EUR16 I already paid them to deliver the DVDs in the first place!)

What a ripoff.:mad:

eth0_

Originally posted by Bartleby

What a ripoff.:mad:

I always thought goods under forty or so euro were excempt from import tax? How can it be legal for the import tax to be calculated from the cost of the item AND the cost of the postage in total?

The UPS thing is pretty crazy.

But this is the chance you take when you import good from the EU:(

Genghis

I thought there was a value limit on packages such as this, below which the Government don't charge customs, VAT, etc. In fact, iirc, that is a reason CD-Wow send CDs singly, so that their unit cost stays 'below the radar'.

I can't think of the exact amount, but I think it is under €50, but I am not sure if the value includes cost of freight. If it does, and you can prove the cost of freight was what you say, then there is a chance that the total cost comes to under the threshold, and none of these charges apply.

Perhaps someone else can help, I remember reading stuff about this here before.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Genghis
I thought there was a value limit on packages such as this, below which the Government don't charge customs, VAT, etc.

Just to add some clarity here - the Government haven't "charged" anything here - UPS has decided that UPS wants to collect a certain amount, and is required to charge VAT on that.

The problem here is that UPS is arbitrarily making up amounts to charge you, not that the VAT rate is 21%. (21% of €18.21 is only €3.82).

Personally, I'd tell UPS that they can keep the DVDs - can you get them from some other source for less than the €28 that UPS want from you? (even if it does mean a few more days delay).

alleepally

There's a brief guide at

http://www.revenue.ie/pdf/pn1882.pdf

and €22 is the cut off point.

The statement of "consignment value" is a bit vague. I wonder does that mean the cost of shipping as well?

I'd get onto revenue about it.

MisterAnarchy

This scam is going on along time.
I ordered a set of golf clubs from the US last year.
UPS delivered it .
They added import duty on the item and shipping cost after converting it to euro at a crap rate.
Then they whacked VAT on that.
I ended up paying 29% extra for my clubs.

Bartleby

Hello,

Thanks for the replys!

I called UPS and challenged them about the EUR22 cut off for goods of negligible value.

He said the Value of the package AND Freight Costs must be below EUR22.
He said this was how Customs do it, UPS can do nothing about it.

I said that I would never use UPS again and he said:
they'd prefer if private people didn't use UPS unless it was urgent, because they only got hassle from people about these charges!

Crazy!

Johnmb

Originally posted by Bartleby
Hello,

Thanks for the replys!

I called UPS and challenged them about the EUR22 cut off for goods of negligible value.

He said the Value of the package AND Freight Costs must be below EUR22.
He said this was how Customs do it, UPS can do nothing about it.

Well he is lying, and I can guarantee that as fact. Postage and packing costs are not included in the €22. Get on to the revenue and they will confirm that (try to deal with someone senior, not someone who just wants you off the phone).

Edit: Just realised that you are getting stuff from Canada. My experience with this is by getting stuff from Play, so I'm not sure if the rules are slightly different, but I doubt it as the €22 amount is the same.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Johnmb
Well he is lying, and I can guarantee that as fact. Postage and packing costs are not included in the €22. Get on to the revenue and they will confirm that

The document posted above doesn't agree with you.

Customs Duty:
The value of the goods for the purposes of charging customs duty is
calculated on the price paid or payable for the goods plus the cost of
transport (including postage), insurance and any loading or handling
charges associated with the delivery of the goods into the EU.

Value-Added Tax:
Imported goods are liable to VAT at the same rate as applies to the sale
within the State of similar goods. The value of the goods for the purpose
of VAT is their value for customs purposes, described above, increased by
the amount of any duty or other tax (but not including VAT)payable and
any other transport, handling or insurance costs between entry into the EU
and delivery to their final destination.

Consignments of Negligible Value
Consignments not exceeding a value of €22 may be imported from
outside the EU without payment of import charges.

It's pretty clear that "value" includes the transport costs and insurance, even though these, to my mind shouldn't be included, because they are largely "consumed" outside the jurisdiction.

Johnmb

Originally posted by Ripwave
It's pretty clear that "value" includes the transport costs and insurance, even though these, to my mind shouldn't be included, because they are largely "consumed" outside the jurisdiction.

It's the definition of "consignment" that matters. The consignment is usually just the value of the goods, unless it is packed in a gold box or something like that. If the consignment is less than €22, then no duty is charged. If the consignment is more than €22, then the duty is charged, and it is charged on everything associated with getting the goods to you as well.

gandalf

Originally posted by Bartleby

I said that I would never use UPS again and he said:
they'd prefer if private people didn't use UPS unless it was urgent, because they only got hassle from people about these charges!

Crazy!

I can guarantee that this is definately not UPS policy. If I were you I would forward this to someone in UPS management along with this guys name and complain about their charges in writing. You may or may not get anywhere but if we do not complain these guys will keep acting like this (and people in Ireland do not complain at all, we grumble behind their backs but hardly ever complain).

I buy alot of DVD's from abroad, mainly Canada these days. I never use courier services because 9 times out of ten you will be stung. I had a similar problem to you with DHL which thought me a lesson. Canadian Air Mail is normally quite quick and efficient, my last couple of deliveries have taken 3 days from shipment to get to me.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Johnmb
It's the definition of "consignment" that matters.

I just quoted the Customs document that defines "value" as the price paid for the goods, plus the cost of shipping and handling. When they say in the following paragraph "Consignments not exceeding a value" it unlikely that they've changed the way they define "value".

Johnmb

Originally posted by Ripwave
I just quoted the Customs document that defines "value" as the price paid for the goods, plus the cost of shipping and handling. When they say in the following paragraph "Consignments not exceeding a value" it unlikely that they've changed the way they define "value".

Well, I can only tell you what the facts are as they were explained to me. And I can verify that, at least within Europe, they facts as they were explained to me are also was has happened in practice. I have often purchased stuff that approach the €22 limit, which would mean that postage included would break the limit if it were indeed to be included. Basically, there are two different values. The first is for the goods, and that decides if duty is payable. The second value only arises if duty is payable, and that value includes postage as well as the purchases, and is used to decide what the duty actually is. Nobody ever accused the Revenue Commissioners of being straight forward.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Johnmb
And I can verify that, at least within Europe,

There is no duty or VAT for sales within Europe - they've already been paid.

(The exception is products that are liable for excise - alcohol, tobacco and mineral oils, but taht's not what we've been talking about).

Johnmb

Originally posted by Ripwave
There is no duty or VAT for sales within Europe - they've already been paid.

(The exception is products that are liable for excise - alcohol, tobacco and mineral oils, but taht's not what we've been talking about).

By Europe, I mean Jersey/Norway etc, not actually EU countries. Although I'm fairly sure that it is not quite as straight forward as it seems, otherwise foreign companies wouldn't have to register for Irish VAT once sales reach a certain level. Either way, the duties are relevant for deliveries from the countries I mentioned, as well as Hong Kong, where CD-WOW deliver from.

Orion

Unrelated to the UPS ripoff - can you tell me the name of the site you buy them from? I'm always looking for other sites to do price comparisons with CDWOW, Play and EzyDVD.

Thanks.

Victor

Originally posted by Ripwave
It's pretty clear that "value" includes the transport costs and insurance, even though these, to my mind shouldn't be included, because they are largely "consumed" outside the jurisdiction.

If they did this, the insurance would be €17.99 and the CD €0.01. The sytem is designed to stop people screwing aorund, although UPS and GLS are doing their best.

Johnmb

Originally posted by Macros42
Unrelated to the UPS ripoff - can you tell me the name of the site you buy them from? I'm always looking for other sites to do price comparisons with CDWOW, Play and EzyDVD.

Thanks.

I actually get most of my stuff from Play. The only other one (besides CD-WOW) I have used once is in Norway, but they only accept Norwegian Credit Cards (a friend helped me out there). I can't remember who it was though, but I'm trying to find them again, as they were trying to get their bank to accept foreign credit cards and they have some box sets for region 2 that were only available elsewhere for region 1. If I manage to find them I'll let you know.

Supercell

That is an outrageous scam :mad:

I've bought over $500 worth of dvds and cds from CD Universe in the last month (am buying for friends who live in the Ukraine where they don't deliver to) and havent had to pay a cent extra, and were delivered within a week of ordering.
Thanks GOD , i didn't choose the ups delivery option!!

Johnmb

Originally posted by Johnmb
I actually get most of my stuff from Play. The only other one (besides CD-WOW) I have used once is in Norway, but they only accept Norwegian Credit Cards (a friend helped me out there). I can't remember who it was though, but I'm trying to find them again, as they were trying to get their bank to accept foreign credit cards and they have some box sets for region 2 that were only available elsewhere for region 1. If I manage to find them I'll let you know.

Just found it again, it is http://www.dvdhuset.no

lynchie

Originally posted by gandalf
I buy alot of DVD's from abroad, mainly Canada these days. I never use courier services because 9 times out of ten you will be stung. I had a similar problem to you with DHL which thought me a lesson. Canadian Air Mail is normally quite quick and efficient, my last couple of deliveries have taken 3 days from shipment to get to me.

Have also recently had packages sent from Canada via standard air mail, values were well over €300. Packages arrived within 3 days of posting and have never been charged import duty on them!

Orion

Originally posted by Johnmb
I actually get most of my stuff from Play.

I get mine from CDWOW normally. But what about the thread-starter - Bartleby. Where's that Canadian site?

quaalude

The canadian site could be http://www.dvdboxoffice.com - good, cheap site for videogames too.
The value of the consignment is indeed the price of the goods + shipping costs. I recently bought runners on amazon.com and they cost $30, but the shipping was $35. I was charged the customs on the full $65, and I had a big long chat with the revenue about it and yeah, that's the way it is. I also had to pay those jerks GLS Ireland €10, their "processing fee" or whatever it's called. I was super pissed off.

Bartleby

I've been crying over my lost DVDs . . .

I didn't want to confuse the issue by slating the DVD company too, but now . . .

The Canadian site was http://www.dvdimport.com and a gang of wasters they were too. Please take my advice and stay away from them!

Reasons:

1) I chose UPS for quick delivery (present for a friend) but it took them a MONTH (!!!!) from the day I ordered to the day they sent them with UPS!!! Absolutely no indication on their site that the dvds I ordered were in stock/out of stock/on order. The DVDs were available to buy, why not available to send?

I couldn't believe it. I spoke with their customer support a number of times to ask why they don't provide stock level indications and why it was taking so long to send my DVDs.

In fairness, the support team always got back to me, but with useless answers like:

Q: What's the delay? How long will it take to send my DVDs?:

A: Your dvds have been requested from the warehouse and we'll send them when we receive them.

2) Also, they charged my credit card straight away after I ordered, which I really didn't like (especially with a month watching my order status as "pending"!!!).

3) I still place part of the UPS fiasco blame on them, for not stating the value of the delivery. It might not have made too much of a difference, but they should have done it anyway.

I had already decided to complain to the site and never to use them again, but I wanted to get my DVDs first.

I've sent a mail to them, the gist of which is above. No response yet.

I'll think twice about ordering DVDs from the internet again, but I hope others have learnt a lesson too. It definitely seems that normal post is the way to go. (No tracking though.)

Thanks for your advice!

Bartleby

Wow.

Just got a call from DVDimport. They want more details so that they can complain to UPS.

Maybe they read the boards . . .

I'll keep you posted. :eek: