New PC Build (Newbie!)

Pacifico

Hi All,
Well with the exams over i've decided to build a new PC to upgrade from my existing Dell . I have never done this before and would be greatfull if some of ye could help me out picking parts for compatibility etc.

I wont be needing a Screen as ill be keeping my Dell tft, or a HDD. So basically a new Tower,Ram,Processor,Mainboard,heatsink, Graphics card and a PSU.

I'll probably be getting the parts off Komplett unless its cheaper somewhere else:) Oh and my Budget is About €800.

Right, i was looking at this case, but in Black. Anyone any opinios on this case?

As a processor i'd be inclined to go with this one. Basically, i like the Thermal throttling feature of them. Should i go with an AMD 64?


This is about as far as i'll get, i havnt got a clue about RAM and Mainboard compatibility. If anyone could help me here i'd be very greatfull.

Thanks in Advance

Dempsey

Need to get a PSU for that case. Antec, Tagan or Enermax, Fortron are generally the best brands. Avoid cheap PSU's and Q-Tecs. For new systems i wouldnt go under 400W. I am running a P4 2.8c with a 350W Antec Trueblue but I dont have a power hungry GFX in it yet.

Prescotts are....OK they run abit hotter than its Northwood equivalent but even with 1Mb of cache there isnt much of a performance difference.

My preference for a motherboard is the Abit IC7-G MAX3 or the Asus P4C800-E Deluxe "Canterwood". Ya wont go far wrong. I'd get the MAX3 but if your hard drive isnt SATA, the MX 3 doesnt have any ATA connectors just 6 SATA ones. The IC7-G MAX2 has 4 SATA and 2 ATA. The Asus one there has both types of connectors for the hard drive.

As for RAM, PC3200 or if ya have the money go higher(if overclocking), and make sure ya buy it in pairs. TwinMOS, Crucial or OCZ are good brands

Stephen

AMD64 is the way to go if you're building this PC to be a games rig.

Pacifico

Thanks for the reply's.

Is there much difference between this and this?. I think i'll go with the Asus Mainboards now, Thanks!

Oh and will this heatsink fit it?

Regarding RAM, How about 2 of these?

Would you advise against a prescott? A 1mb Cache is the same as a Centrino i thougth, which adds a good bit of performance? (on my laptop at least)

Thanks again

Col_Loki

Are you going to be overclocking ? Is your main usage for gaming?

If you are going to overclock then get an Intel 2.8 / 3ghz with Pc4000 memory and a decent motherboard (like dempsay said).

If not overclocking then definetly look at an AMD64 with some decent Pc3200 memory .

have a look here for some brief tips etc .... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152842

Pacifico

Originally posted by COL_LOKI
Are you going to be overclocking ? Is your main usage for gaming?

If you are going to overclock then get an Intel 2.8 / 3ghz with Pc4000 memory and a decent motherboard (like dempsay said).

If not overclocking then definetly look at an AMD64 with some decent Pc3200 memory .

No i wont be Overclocking it. I'd still like to go with Intel though....

have a look here for some brief tips etc .... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152842

Wow thats some post there! Ill have a look for a half decent PSU so. BTW i'm asuming they are all standard size?:o

tuxy

Originally posted by Axel
No i wont be Overclocking it. I'd still like to go with Intel though....

why? are you more into video editing and stuff like that than games?

Pacifico

Originally posted by tuxx
why? are you more into video editing and stuff like that than games?

Dunno really seams safer not to I play games mainly.....

tuxy

Originally posted by Axel
Dunno really seams safer not to I play games mainly.....

dont understand what you mean by safer
if your a gamer wouldnt your main concern be which cpu gives you the most fps?

Pacifico

Originally posted by tuxx
dont understand what you mean by safer
if your a gamer wouldnt your main concern be which cpu gives you the most fps?

Safer, I'm guessing running at stock speeds is safer than running above them. Plus the added heat....

I also would not have the "Know-how" to do it..

tuxy

Originally posted by Axel
Safer, I'm guessing running at stock speeds is safer than running above them. Plus the added heat....

I also would not have the "Know-how" to do it..

yes running at stock speed is safer, amd64's out perform p4's in games at stock speed the main reason to get a pentium 4 over a a64 would be to overclock it

yes heat is something to be considered the p4 prescott seems to run hotter than athlons 64's but still nothing to worry about with a good heatsink

there isnt a big differnce in how the cpu's are mounted so that dosnt come into it

Mutant_Fruit

Just because you see intel with "HT" technology smeared all over the TV doesn't mean its the "safer" or "better" option. It all depends on what you use your computer for.

For games, the AMD's win all the time, when compared against similarly priced cpu's. The A643200+ will be better than the Intel 3.2ghz when it comes to games.

Dempsey

Originally posted by Axel
Thanks for the reply's.

Is there much difference between this and this?. I think i'll go with the Asus Mainboards now, Thanks!

Oh and will this heatsink fit it?

Regarding RAM, How about 2 of these?

Would you advise against a prescott? A 1mb Cache is the same as a Centrino i thougth, which adds a good bit of performance? (on my laptop at least)

Thanks again

Not much difference between them, slight improvement in a few departments, LAN, Audio and chipset from what I see from the links but If money is tight the SE will be fine both have the SATA and IDE connectors which is ideal for you.

Since I see that you are not overclocking I'd recommend the IC7-G (MAX2). I have one and it is excellent performer and reliable. The two I mentioned were top of the line and the most suited for extreme overclocking

P4's run hotter than AMD's at stock speeds

tuxy

Originally posted by Dempsey

P4's run hotter than AMD's at stock speeds

ya thats the way things are currently
it used to be the other way around when it was p4 northwood vs. athlon xp, but now that its a64 vs prescott intels cpu run hotter

heres a comparison http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2026&p=3

tuxy

Originally posted by Mutant_Fruit
Just because you see intel with "HT" technology smeared all over the TV doesn't mean its the "safer" or "better" option. It all depends on what you use your computer for.

For games, the AMD's win all the time, when compared against similarly priced cpu's. The A643200+ will be better than the Intel 3.2ghz when it comes to games.

i agree, but differnt people will have differnt opinions on it
Axel what i would recomend to you is to read differnt reviews on both intel and amd processors
its easy to find reviews using google
then you can make a informed dicision yourself

Dempsey

The deciding factor for me was the chipsets. Intel Chipsets have never really given any problems but AMD past with 3rd party ones had put me off. nVidia's chipsets are good but if compared to what went before them, it wasnt too hard to improve them.

I wouldnt go 64-bit simply because mainstream software support isnt there for it at the moment.

tuxy

Originally posted by Dempsey


I wouldnt go 64-bit simply because mainstream software support isnt there for it at the moment.

yes but athlon 64's can run 32 bit games better than the p4
and the option for 64 bit is there when microsoft and other companies get the drivers sorted

Col_Loki

yes but athlon 64's can run 32 bit games better than the p4
and the option for 64 bit is there when microsoft and other companies get the drivers sorted

Yea exactly, and theres supposed to be a nice performance gain when running 64bit windows with the AMD's.......... its an almost free perfromance boost if you like.

Its prob a better option to hold out with your dell for the min if your thinkin about AMD as the Socket939 is comming out and will be more future proof for upgrades than 754. But depends on wheather you want to wait or just need a system now.
[edit] Come to think of it the newer Socket 939 will prob be over your budget anyway, so mite not be worth waiting for!

neokenzo

The A64 definitely rocks when it comes to games. Have no complain at all. Even at stock speed its fast.
I would agree that the socket 939 is going to be expensive. I reckon that it would be around €300-€500 for just the cpu.

Azza

AMD 64 all the way. The offer superior gaming performance to intels and lag only marginally behind intel in other areas in 32 bit. There really gonna start making Intel look bad when 64bit OS and games take hold but thats someway off.

I don't see the logic behind people saying that no point going the 64 bit route. Yes there slightly more expensive than there equivelent Intel chips but the perform better (well worst you can say is equal) in 32bit and why not have the advantage of a software boost a few months down the line. There is no harm in that is there.
Its newish technology and yes you pay a little bit more now. But the price is gonna drop as new chips for both AMD and Intel appears so that arguement does'nt hold water either. In terms of reliablity AMD chips are on par with intels as well. Chipsets are not issue but again with AMD 64 thats because there new and need time to be refined.

Virtually everyone I know (gamers and euthasists) buy AMD and all of them are happy with them. (13 of them at last count just 2 on intel at last land party) just because there not as well known does not mean there any worse than Intel. As said before read the reviews for both chips. Virtually all recommend AMD 64.

Pacifico

Originally posted by Azza
AMD 64 all the way. The offer superior gaming performance to intels and lag only marginally behind intel in other areas in 32 bit. There really gonna start making Intel look bad when 64bit OS and games take hold but thats someway off.

I don't see the logic behind people saying that no point going the 64 bit route. Yes there slightly more expensive than there equivelent Intel chips but the perform better (well worst you can say is equal) in 32bit and why not have the advantage of a software boost a few months down the line. There is no harm in that is there.
Its newish technology and yes you pay a little bit more now. But the price is gonna drop as new chips for both AMD and Intel appears so that arguement does'nt hold water either. In terms of reliablity AMD chips are on par with intels as well. Chipsets are not issue but again with AMD 64 thats because there new and need time to be refined.

Virtually everyone I know (gamers and euthasists) buy AMD and all of them are happy with them. (13 of them at last count just 2 on intel at last land party) just because there not as well known does not mean there any worse than Intel. As said before read the reviews for both chips. Virtually all recommend AMD 64.

Thanks for all the info lads, I'd be inclined to go for an AMD 64 now. Can i ask you is it easy to install? And are all programs/games compatible with the chip?

ionapaul

Hey, I just build my first system less than two months ago (early April) and went the AMD 64 route. Although I had some problems (faulty/broken parts) it was EASY to build, there is so much info out there on the internet you only have to look and do a little study. And you get a skill that is very useful in today's world. People look at me and think '(nerd) wow, you built your own computer, that must have been really hard, wow! (nerd)' - and I think to myself 'christ, it was a piece of piss, i've had more trouble putting together a bookshelf from argos! but I guess I am a nerd all right '

My AMD 64 system is damn fast at stock speeds, great for gaming. I'd like to think I will have it for a good few years as well, let's see how it tackles Half Life 2 and Doom 3!

P.S. As mentioned earlier, you will need a high-quality PSU, I first used a new Q-Tec Gold 400w and it just couldn't power the system and would randomly die on me - the AMD 64 cpu and mobos are very power-hungry, as is the Radeon 9800

tuxy

Originally posted by Axel
Thanks for all the info lads, I'd be inclined to go for an AMD 64 now. Can i ask you is it wasy to install? And are all programs/games compatible with the chip?

well the cpu clips into the socket the same way a p4 would
then the heatsink is mounted like this
http://www.modsynergy.com/Article%207.htm

yes it runs all the same software the pentium 4 will plus you have the added bonus of running 64 bit software which the pentium 4 does not support

and ionapaul a 400 watt power supply would be able to run that system its just q-tecs are crap :P

Civilian_Target

Qtecs aren't bad, just overspecced. Generally they deliver about 70% of the power they quote compared to a PSU by Thermaltake, Chieftec, Antec, Zalaman and friends.

If you get a 550W QTec, it's about 380W Chieftec, which is fine for most things....

aaf

Might I suggest the Antec Sonata Piano Black Quiet Case - 380W TruePower Silent PSU . It comes with an excellent 380w PSU and it's pleasing to the eye!

Pacifico

Thanks again for the info lads. I'm gonna order the following tomorrow:

1.AMD 64 2.0Ghz

2.Heatsink

3.RAM

4.MainBoard

5. Oh and this

Still looking for a PSU though......

tuxy

nice one
what case are you getting maybe that will come with a good psu
if not this irish company does good psu's
http://www.hitide.ie/catalog/default.php/cPath/32?osCsid=4f88594ec01bad74d546e5fdf4337e97
i have one and the voltage rails stay very stable

let use know how the build goes

Pacifico

Originally posted by tuxx
nice one
what case are you getting maybe that will come with a good psu
if not this irish company does good psu's
http://www.hitide.ie/catalog/default.php/cPath/32?osCsid=4f88594ec01bad74d546e5fdf4337e97
i have one and the voltage rails stay very stable

let use know how the build goes

I should be getting this one . Should be sweet with the analogue Displays like this





No PSU though, i'll take a look on that site. Ill update this thread (or a new one) with pics (hopefully) when its done:) Thanks for the help, Just a parting note, The ram above...... is it good enough or should i consider a different one?

F.

uberpixie

That ram is fine if you don't intend to overclock.

Dual channeling the memory and the Memory controler on the AMD64 chip make the difference.

Any benches for AMD64 using cas 2.5/ cas 2 ram show a miniscule amount of difference in performance between the two.

Just check if the ram is compatible with the mobo.

BloodBath

No way in hell are you going to fit all that into an 800 euro budget. I love that case. I was torn between that and the thermaltake vm2000 lanfire and got the lanfire because of the window, fan controller and cheaper price.

Wish I hadn't now. I could have modded the case and put a window and fan controller on myself. It's a beaut but a pricey one at that. Still I love my case.

If your not overclocking just use the boxed heatsink. You don't need anything better.

What are the timings on that RAM? Pc3200 is fine when your not overclocking but get RAM with tight timings. Go to www.shop4memory.co.uk for your RAM. Best prices with free and fast delivery.

Virtually everyone I know (gamers and euthasists) buy AMD and all of them are happy with them. (13 of them at last count just 2 on intel at last land party) just because there not as well known does not mean there any worse than Intel. As said before read the reviews for both chips. Virtually all recommend AMD 64.

I'm the exception though and who gets the highest benchmarks?? At least until you get that new g-card but I won't be far behind getting one either.


BloodBath

tuxy

Originally posted by BloodBath
If your not overclocking just use the boxed heatsink. You don't need anything better.

hes getting the oem version, no heatsink
probably the best option too because then you can get a nice quiet heatsink/fan

Azza

Yes Bloodbath but I have plenty in reserve. With a slightly better cooler such as a zalman you could say good bye to you slight lead but I'm not getting anything as low as a zalman . With a better overclock lower mormoy timings, a second hard drive and not to mention my current card is not overclocked.....or the 64bit OS upgrade still to come.

tuxy

well you dont have to wait for windows xp64
both of ye could install linux BloodBath using a 32 bit version of linux , you using a 64 bit version and see how benchmarks compare

BloodBath

Yes Bloodbath but I have plenty in reserve. With a slightly better cooler such as a zalman you could say good bye to you slight lead but I'm not getting anything as low as a zalman . With a better overclock lower mormoy timings, a second hard drive and not to mention my current card is not overclocked.....or the 64bit OS upgrade still to come.

Your memory timings aren't much lower than mine and I have the extra bandwidth so it's no advantage. My memory is running at 514mhz with 2.5-4-4-7. The hard-drive won't improve your 3dmark score much. The card overclocked is your best bet. You could possibly beat me depending on how high you get it. I know your processor perfroms better than mine but it depends on how far you can overclock it. Good luck anyway. I will be forced to buy phase change and go over 4ghz to settle all disputes.


BloodBath

Col_Loki

His board is also limiting his FSB and that means the memory he is using isint a great choice at the min......... slack timings at lower FSB than rated for. The AMD64's are downwardly unlocked so with the new board the FSB can be put almost as high as he wants. And the AMD64 doesent loose memory performance by running out of sync (FSB:RAM). I know dual channel v single channel so you will always have the Bandwidth advantage (until 939 comes out).

And you would prob have to break 4ghz to get better than a 2.7/2.8ghz AMD64 in gaming anyway.........

Main differences with your systems performance wise is memory and graphics. The CPU's are roughly the same TBH (very close anyway). Nice to see which way this goes

Pacifico

Small update here lads

Got all the stuff today. And i was reading the manual for the motherboard. In the specs under CPU is "Socket 754 for AMD 64 with built in 1mb l2 cache "

The CPU i got has only 512 L2 Cache. Please tell me this wont be a problem . I havn't started building yet.......

BloodBath

It won't be a problem.......:D



BloodBath

Pacifico

Originally posted by BloodBath
It won't be a problem.......:D



BloodBath

I'll be able to sleep tonight!

Thanks:)

Azza

Hehe Lucky my ram overclockers to 550mhz on an the AMD 64 platform...check out the review of my ram at anandtech.....extra voltage will keep timings low but risky. Depends what I achieve on the overclock. Each AMD 64 100mhz is worth 145mhz in intel terms. If I reach 2.9ghz (they did with fx 51 with same cooler) I will hit 4.2ghz P4 standard....still with OS upgrade to come which should be worth 20% and 20% added to 4.2ghz . Still looking for the best overclocking card. Raptors on raid might not improve 3d mark but they will improve hard drive benchmarks....Victory is almost mine .....perhap the AMD flag to be raised

BloodBath

My RAM will go to 540-550 as well I just haven't pushed the processor past 3.6 yet. It will be close anyway. If we both went phase change i'd get about 4-4.2ghz and you might get 2.8-2.9. I don't know how the amd's do. There is very little in it.

You will probably pip me to the post in games though if we have the same graphics card. Not by a lot though. Anyway when are you hoping for this 64bitness with full suport from software.

I'll probably have a new rig by then.


BloodBath

tuxy

pm's?

BloodBath

Yeah sorry about that. Going well off topic there.


BloodBath

Pacifico

Sorry lads another question while reading the manual i cam across this:

. Regarding the AGP slot, It has kindly informed me "only to install +1.5v Cards".

While looking through my graphic card spec i found it is .8v for AGP 8x and 1.5v for 4x??

Is there a way around this? Or will it be a Problem?

Thanks in advance

Col_Loki

Yea that same thing got me worried the first time aswell. Just ignore that, the card will be perfect in that slot. Nothing to worry about.

Pacifico

Cheers ,COL_LOKI.

Looking forward to the build now:) scheduled for Sunday

Pacifico

Well i though i'd give an update/report on the build

A great problem free build . Seams like its running pritty stable. I havnt had time to try any benchmarks on it yet.

The hard Drive was the only slight problem i had. I got the windows "blue screen of death" A quick format fixed that .

Some Temps:

Idle CPU 32 Mainboard 30 Case 29
Load (playing mafia) Cpu 39 Mainboard 33 Case 31


Thanks to everyone for the help and advice.

Col_Loki

Well thats good to hear anyway!! Run prime95 for an hour or two when your not using it just to make sure you dont have dodgy Ram etc and you should be flyin then.

tuxy

good to hear it went well
happy gaming