[article]No! not the nipples.....Aaaaaagggghhh!

mike65

Fer Petes Sake!

From indo

Euro election film 'too offensive'


A FILM advert that shows a topless woman breastfeeding to promote the upcoming European elections will not be coming to a cinema near you after it was deemed to be too offensive for Irish sensibilities.

The 45-second ad shows an infant trying to decide which nipple to choose from as it is being breast fed by its mother. The woman's nipples are clearly shown before and after the infant starts feeding.

The five second image of the nipple is followed by other images of people making decisions, including a courtroom jury and voters at the ballot box. It is then followed by a voice-over stating: "You've been voting since you were born: don't stop now - European Parliament elections, June 10".

The ad will be shown at 2,200 cinemas across Europe starting May 28 in the lead-up to the elections. It is to appear before the blockbuster 'Troy' and the new Harry Potter film beginning on June 3.

Ireland is the only member state to date to ban the ad, although an edited version of the ad, with the offending nipple episode all but edited out, will be shown in the UK.

Jim O'Brien, head of the European Parliament office in Ireland, said he decided that the ad was simply not suitable for Irish audiences.

"I thought that it was inappropriate to use breastfeeding to promote anything, even democracy," he said last night.

Allison Bray

So whatdawethink? I cant belive the ppl of Ireland will be scandelised by this so why can't the Powers That Be
get a life?

Mike.

flogen

A total joke. They could have at least edited the ad like in the UK, and besides, its only a breast, everyone (almost) has seen or has them, whats the big deal? Its not sexually explicit, its natural.

And they'll complain when voter numbers are at an all time low, and then tell us there is nothing wrong with breast-feeding and its the more natural alternative.

Get a life ffs

Flogen

fragile

Originally posted by mike65
so why can't the Powers That Beget a life?

Mike.

The powers that be probably weren't breast feed

sceptre

Since when have mothers been giving wee bairns the choice of which nipple they go for? I knew these continental ideas would be the ruination of the nation.

"I thought that it was inappropriate to use breastfeeding to promote anything, even democracy," he said last night.

Can't think of how they're going to promote breast feeding then.

Continuing with the theme...

The five second image of the nipple is followed by other images of people making decisions, including a courtroom jury and voters at the ballot box. It is then followed by a voice-over stating: "You've been voting since you were born: don't stop now - European Parliament elections, June 10".

In fairness, that's a bit drab. They could have shown an addict deciding between two needles, politician between two envelopes (or deciding which of his two faces to put on in the morning), kid deciding between two packets of condoms, porn star deciding between two, oh the list goes on.

Puck

I don't mean to alarm anyone but... but I appear to have not one but two nipple-like growths on my chest. Is there a helpline or emergency number I should call?

flogen

I don't mean to alarm anyone but... but I appear to have not one but two nipple-like growths on my chest. Is there a helpline or emergency number I should call?

lol
Its ok puck, just take a deep breath... you calm? ok... now, get a sharp knife and just cut those bad boys off... once the bleeding stops, you'll be a normal human being once again.

/me writes complaint to moronic European Parliment office, btw

Flogen

alleepally

Who does the "head of the European Parliament office in Ireland" think he is ..

quote "I thought that it was inappropriate to use breastfeeding to promote anything, even democracy"

HE thought. HE being a Eurocrat caught up on the gravy train and removed from reality.

I feel a headache coming on... I want a nipple to suck on.

flogen

Dear James O' Brien,

I was ready to write you this e-mail and lauch into a spiel of angry
comments relating to the ban you have imposed on the european
elections ad due to the bare breast shown within, but I decided not
to.
I simply want to register my anger and confusion at the ban, and ask
you firstly, what is wrong with an image of breast feeding, or a
tasteful image of a bare breast? Is it not natural? I've seen more
explicit artwork. Secondly, what do you propose as a replacement ad to
encourage Irish adults to vote in the elections, and finally, why
didnt you just edit the clip if it was so offensive, ala the United
Kingdom?

Thank you for your time,

Flogen

monument

Well, they might have offended someone. :rolleyes:

vorbis

aren't people going a bit ott. The guy has NO PROBLEMS with breast feeding. He simply stated that it was inappropiate material to use for an EU election video. Thats a fair point and is his choice. Do ye also realised that there is NOTHING stopping any tv station from showing the ads out of their own pocket. They're not banned for god's sake.

Sleipnir

I think it's amazing that this was banned and the mortgage ad with sexual undertones (Guy & girl snogging in taxi; "why did I say my place? I hope they're still not up....) get's through.
They use sex to sell mortgages, why can't they use breastfeeding to promote voting

vorbis

I think it's amazing that this was banned and the mortgage ad with sexual undertones (Guy & girl snogging in taxi; "why did I say my place? I hope they're still not up....) get's through.
They use sex to sell mortgages, why can't they use breastfeeding to promote voting

good point, shouldn't saying a mortgage will improve your sex life be outside the advertising code? Again to point out though, the guy involved in this is not our censor. He didn't censor the video in question, rather he took the decision not to use it as part of the eu elections promotions. The video is NOT banned in Ireland.

Sleepy

But getting a mortgage will improve your sex life. Whereas, lets be honest, wtf has breastfeeding to do with Elections?

monument

Originally posted by vorbis
good point, shouldn't saying a mortgage will improve your sex life be outside the advertising code?

No, because saying you have a better chance of using a bed if you had your own house is truthful.

---

There’s an *excellent* advertisement in Sunday’s ‘Observer’ newspaper for the European, local, and London elections on June 10th.

Entitled “How politics affects YOUR NIGHT OUT”, it goes onto list a number of ways politics effects your night out from music to drink to drugs.

The deeper message is that there is no “inappropriate” context for politics, politics affects everything. Thus, there is no “inappropriate material” for an advertisement that is trying to encourage people to get involved in politics, to vote, to choose.

At the end of the day, this is state censorship based on a taboo. A taboo which is probably not real among the vast majority of cinemagoers*.

(* and yes, amazingly, that is a word)

eth0_

I think it's a bloody stupid way of promoting their cause!
I find those 'DUHHH YOU LIKE DURRR ARE USED TO PRESSING BUTTONS COS U USE THE PHONE! AND DURRR YOU PRESS A BUTTON ON TRAFFIC LIGHTS!'

They're just *so* patronising it's unreal. If the politicians hadn't put me off voting, those ads would have.

kaimera

twas on euronews this morning

quiet nice

vorbis

again its actually quite an important point.
its NOT CENSORSHIP monument. The ad can be shown by anyone who wants to show it. Personally, I have a hard time finding the relevance of breast feeeding with regard to the euro elections. Must be missing something.

uberwolf

*not specifically related to tv/media

I recall a few years ago a woman on the radio complaining that she had been kicked out of a restaurant for breastfeeding her child. Deemed inappropriate behaviour for a restaurant apparently :rolleyes:

However the breastfeeding was being used in the election context as some means of shock factor, OMG boobs, or something similiar. This oughtn't be the case and I can see the perspective of the add producers - but I can't see any reason to ban it for this or any other reason, shock factor or not.

woolymammoth

i vote for a poll!! POLL! POLL! POLL!

mike65

Originally posted by vorbis
again its actually quite an important point.
its NOT CENSORSHIP monument. The ad can be shown by anyone who wants to show it. Personally, I have a hard time finding the relevance of breast feeeding with regard to the euro elections. Must be missing something.

The ad apparently makes the point about choice, the ad starts with I belive the breatfeeding moment as the child says yes to breast and no to bottle and then it goes on to illustrate other choices we all make in our lives. Then the ad ends with the line -

"We make choices all our lives, don't stop now" or words to that effect...

Mike.

monument

Originally posted by vorbis
again its actually quite an important point.
its NOT CENSORSHIP monument. The ad can be shown by anyone who wants to show it. Personally, I have a hard time finding the relevance of breast feeeding with regard to the euro elections. Must be missing something.

O, yes, it is CENSORSHIP.

Although a blanket ban is not in place, it has been deemed unsuitable for an audience in Ireland, as a result it has been censored.

vorbis

Originally posted by monument
O, yes, it is CENSORSHIP.

Although a blanket ban is not in place, it has been deemed unsuitable for an audience in Ireland, as a result it has been censored.

oh dear. Censorship would mean the thing could not be shown. It is NOT being suppressed so it isn't censorship. The "audience in ireland" can view the ad if an irish news station broadcasts it. Chances are one of them will. The official even said on the radio that he has no problems with giving them copies of the ad!. Explain ho that is censorship. Your phrase "state censorship based on a taboo" is even more inaccurate.

joe_chicken

I'm not too bothered!!!

sounds like a crap ad!!!

monument

Originally posted by vorbis
oh dear. Censorship would mean the thing could not be shown. It is NOT being suppressed so it isn't censorship. The "audience in ireland" can view the ad if an irish news station broadcasts it. Chances are one of them will. The official even said on the radio that he has no problems with giving them copies of the ad!. Explain ho that is censorship. Your phrase "state censorship based on a taboo" is even more inaccurate.

One does not have to kill the whole population before it’s called murder.

Censorship is not limited to blanket bans - or example age rating and watersheds are both forms of censorship.

Originally posted by vorbis
Your phrase "state censorship based on a taboo" is even more inaccurate.

Why is that?

vorbis

By that standard it is censorship but the common perception of censorship is something banned by our censor.

Why is that?

The guy Jim O Brien is ultimately answerable to the Eu parliament. He has no connection to the state. As such how could it be state censorship.

monument

Originally posted by vorbis
By that standard it is censorship but the common perception of censorship is something banned by our censor.

Censorship goes far beyond the Film Censor’s Office, although it is probably the main public image of censorship.

Originally posted by vorbis
The guy Jim O Brien is ultimately answerable to the Eu parliament. He has no connection to the state. As such how could it be state censorship.

At the end of the day the EU is consider a part of our overall governmental system. However, maybe ‘state’ was a bad choice of word on my part.

flogen

Responce to my e-mail (from above):

European Parliament
Office in Ireland 27 May 2004

re: Publicity for the European Parliament Elections - TV/Cinema Advertising Spot


Thank you for your e-mail of 23 May. I apologise for the delay in replying and am grateful for the opportunity to give you some background information on my decision regarding the above.

Before each European election the Parliament's Directorate General for Press and Public Relations allocates a substantial part of its budget to the provision of information to the electorate and to publicity carrying a 'Use your Vote' message. Each of the Parliament's Offices in the member EU States is given some extra funding for such purposes in election years and the rest is used at the centre in Brussels to produce materials such as posters, leaflets, brochures, maps and audio visual material which could be used on TV or in cinemas.

It falls to the Head of each External Office to make a range of choices as to which materials from the centre to use and what mix of materials would be most effective in his or her national circumstances. It was my responsibility to make such decisions in Ireland.

As regards the TV/Cinema Spot in question - its theme as you know was that 'You have been making choices all your life - don't stop now - use your vote in the European Elections on Friday 11th June'. The 45 second video showed a series of scenes in which people are making choices at various stages in their lives - infancy, childhood, teen years, employee, jury member and voter. The images have a sound track of lcatchy popular music and the spoken/written message (quoted just above) comes in at the very end.

The opening scene is of a young mother, undressed to the waist, breast feeding her infant who moves from breast to breast before choosing one. It is a beautiful image which captures the viewers attention and impels them to pay attention until the end to see what the message is. So the attractiveness of the image and its ability to capture the audience's attention is clear.

My responsibility was to consider whether an Irish audience would judge it right to place this video image

(a) out of context i.e. in a context unconnected with the welfare of mothers and their infants
and /or
(b) to use it for promotional purposes. (Some callers have said - no problem - this image is used to promote the sales of cars or beer, so why not use it to promote voting. An equal number have taken exactly the opposite view).

In considering this matter I had regard to The Advertising Standards Authority of Ireland (ASCI) Code of Practice for Advertisers which is intended among other things to ensure respect for the sensibilities and sensitivities of the Irish public. I annex some of relevant articles from that code. The ASCI advised me that the use of the opening scene in the TV/Cinema spot would inter alia almost certainly cause 'grave and widespread offence' (Article 2.14). In the past commercial advertisers whose advertisements have been deemed by the ASCI to have caused such offence have been obliged to withdraw them. Such ASCI decisions are prompted by complaints from the public.

I should mention that the video is also not being used in Denmark, Luxembourg and Belgium.

You ask why I did not edit the clip if it was so offensive. From the above you can see that I certainly did not think the clip was offensive - and editing such as has been done in the UK would still be looked at in the light of the ASAI Code of Conduct.

I hope that the above will re-assure you that my decision, even if you consider it was wrong, was at least carefully considered.

You ask what else we have done to encourage citizens to vote. Our main projects were to distribute a leaflet to every household in Ireland (Irish and English) versions explaining Parliament's powers, role and work, the publication of a series of two page information supplements about Parliament and the elections culminating with a final issue on the elections in all three papers last Saturday, press conferences and invitations to journalists to Parliament, the distribution of posters and wall charts to secondary schools, colleges, libraries and public offices, the use of a 'Use your Vote' post mark on 4,5 million letters in the three weeks before the election, a joint EP/CEC conference on 'Encouraging Women to Participate in Politics' , a large banner on Liberty Hall , the distribution of information packs to every TV and radio station, and local, regional and national paper, and the provision of extra information material in response to requests from schools and of course from many individual citizens.



Thank you again for writing to me and for taking to time to read this reply.

Jim O'Brien

Also attached was the Code of Practice for Ads:

Advertising Standards Authority in Ireland - code of practice for advertisers

2.1 All advertisements should be legal, decent, honest and truthful.

2.2 All advertisements should be prepared with a sense of responsibility to consumers and to society.

2.4 The Code is applied in the spirit as well as in the letter.

2.5 An advertisement should not bring advertising into disrepute.

2.6 Primary responsibility for observing the Code rests with advertisers. Others involved in the preparation and publication of advertisements such as agencies and media also accept an obligation to abide by the Code.

2.13 An advertisement should contain nothing that is likely to cause grave or widespread offence.

2.14 Advertisements should respect the dignity of all persons and should avoid causing offence on grounds of gender, marital status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the traveller community.

2.15 Advertisements should respect the principle of the equality of men and women. They should avoid sex stereotyping and any exploitation or demeaning of men and women

2.16 To avoid causing offence, advertisements should be responsive to the diversity in Irish society and advertisements which portray or refer to people within the groups mentioned in 2.14 should:

- not exploit them for unrelated commercial purposes;

2.17 Advertisers should take account of public sensitivities in the preparation and publication of advertisements and avoid the exploitation of sexuality and the use of coarseness and undesirable innuendo. They should not use offensive or provocative copy or images merely to attract attention.

2.19 Compliance with the Code is assessed on the basis of the standards of taste, decency and propriety generally accepted in Ireland, taking account of the product involved, the media used, the location and context in which the advertisement is placed and the characteristics of the audience addressed.

A fair reply IMO. While I dont agree with the ad being banned, I do see the point that the use of a naked body here could lead other advertisers to do the same, in an expolitive fashion (I'm sure beer companies are dying to have naked women on their ads, they nearly do as it is).
Sadly, while I (and others) feel that the human body is not something that is to be hidden or ashamed of, many people in this country still feel it is (due to things like church control which we are only really coming out of, and many grew up with). Once the human body is not being exploited in a sexual manner as a sales tool it should be ok, but drawing the line is a tough one.

One thing I still dont really understand is his reason for not editing it, he says it would still come under the advertising code, but surely without the nudity it would pass with no problem, there was a chance it would anyway.

Flogen

bonkey

It occurred to me while reading through this thread, that the obvious solution should have been to require that the ad only be shown before movies which had an age-certificate - either of what a movie would get if the ad were a scene in it, or of the legal voting age.

Yes, I accept fully that adults will go and see Harry Potter, but if the risk is one of offence, then show the ad in a setting where acceptance of that level of potential offence is already a pre-requisite.

I'm not sure if this is actually covered by legislation, though, which is the only major problem I can see with it.

Further, any possible allegations of shock-tactics should be reasonably offset by the fact that this wasn't extolling any party or candidate (that I'm aware of), but rather acted as an encouragement to vote. Consider, for example, the "Drive Carefully" ads from a couple of years ago which showed some rather horrific (staged) accidents rather gruesomely. Again, being a message in the public's interest was ultimately its saving grace. So why should this be any different?

Ultimately, I can see why it may have been refused from being shown in front of the movies it was scheduled for, but I cannot really agree with the logic of banning it outrightly, unless I'm missing something...

jc

smalltalker

Originally posted by bonkey
Consider, for example, the "Drive Carefully" ads from a couple of years ago which showed some rather horrific (staged) accidents rather gruesomely. Again, being a message in the public's interest was ultimately its saving grace. So why should this be any different?

Well... I know I'm going against the weight of opinion here, but I think the two ads can be distinguished.

Firstly, you do not choose which breast to suck on when you are a child. You might however do that when you are an adult male. Get my drift?

Secondly, no nipples are on view when you breastfeed. It is actually very discreet.

Basically, I'm saying that breastfeeding was being used in this ad as a cipher, relying on the "breastfeeding is so natural" etc. justification that everyone obligingly jumps to. I say it is disingenuous because it misrepresents breastfeeding to such an extent that one has to wonder why they didn't just show what they clearly wanted to show At least that would have been honest!

Anyway, I'm sick of seeing tits everywhere, everyday, selling everything under the sun! If democracy is so important, why not come up with something less mundane?

(For the record, I don't support the censorship of the ad, but I dislike the ad itself, so I'm kind of glad it won't be shown everywhere. Breastfeeding deserves better representation.)

Mike 1972

But getting a mortgage will improve your sex life?

Will it ? After working every hour Gawd sends to pay the damn thing sex is probably the last thing on your mind excpt for the feeling that youre being s****ed

Whereas, lets be honest, wtf has breastfeeding to do with Elections?

Choosing between different t*t's ? quite a lot Id say

As for Ireland being a conservative 90% Catholic country does this mean that all that stuff about us being a modern/progressive/inclusive/multicultural/foward thinking/whatever-youre-having-yourself society is all a lie then ?

Given that we are a country where a 17 year old can legally drive a car (having first sold a kidney to pay for the insurance, Join the Army or become a parent but cannot legally see a film containing the expletitive "unclef***er I think I know the answer to thar one

Big Ears

The ad was shown at half-time during the Ireland Holland game , and I liked it , not just the part of the add in question , but also the children in the classroom voting between Zidane and Nedved , and some 1 else whos name I could only half see .

verdict : me likey very much

neXus9

If it's the breasts are shown fluidly with the rest of the ad, well then that's grand. If there just thrown in your face (no pun intended) to shock, well then it only should be allowed for a reasonably mature audience (12's and up).

flogen

http://www.elections2004.eu.int/ep-election/sites/en/infotainment/tv.html

available for download here in 3 different resolutions.... not a big file at all...

Saw the ad during the news yesterday, and with the 1 second shot of nipple I really cannot see where the problem is. Its not using sex to get attention, its not crude or rude and i cant see it being offensive to anyone.

Other ad's with scantily clad women are much more sexually suggestive (without there being a direct link between it and the product). This ad has no sexual overtones at all.

Flogen

neXus9

Yeah, it's actually quite tame.

snickerpuss

I didnt really care that it was banned becuse it doesnt really have anything to do with voting.
I dont think its gonna make peopole vote, its gonna make them go "yey breasts" and i dont see why they shoud be afforded special rights to have naked chicks in their ads when others wouldnt, regardless of whether they're selling something or not.
if it was for breastfeeding or something to actually do with breasts at all then id be cool with it, but its clearly not.

monument

Originally posted by snickerpuss
I didnt really care that it was banned becuse it doesnt really have anything to do with voting.

Making choices has a lot to do with voting - please stop making such stupid statements.

Anyway, according to one report I remember reading the bosses in the European Parliament said the fact that it originally not shown here was a personal decision that should have never been made.

neXus9

I saw the ad on Irish tv and it doesn't look edited at all (can still see the dreaded nipples!).

Victor

Fairly unbelievable. So what, it's a breast. OK breasts are nice. And yes breasts are all to often associated with sex, but to be honest that fixation is grossly misplaced, to say they should be hidden away is, tbh, obscene.

Originally posted by uberwolf
I recall a few years ago a woman on the radio complaining that she had been kicked out of a restaurant for breastfeeding her child. Deemed inappropriate behaviour for a restaurant apparently :rolleyes:

Well most places say you aren't allowed bring your own food & drink

neXus9

yeah, it's pretty tame but it was quite petty of them to put it right at the start just to get the attention.